Ballistic NG - Wipeout fan project

[slowriderxcorps]

Okay! From my limited time with the Steam version so far it seems most everything feels to be in order. I was taking notes in any case, and so I'll leave here what I had jotted down.

* Default positioning of the Key Binder scroll window is at the bottom of the list instead of the top (both computers).
Side note to this, at 1080p every command within the Key Binder fits on the window, no need for scroll bar at all?
* Left Shift was not being recognised by the Key Binder (both computers).
* There is a slight camera shift during the start of races on Aciknovae (most likely when passing the exit to the Pit Lane) (Toxic Class).
* Replay Camera locations on Zephyr Ridge and Makeno Bay are out-of-bounds.
* Auto-Pilot pickup needs heavy modifications to combat the loss in speed when activated and pathfinding issues (Toxic Class).
* Perhaps some alterations to Pickup Logic need to be considered to prevent picking up the same item multiple times in a row.
As well as perhaps slightly increasing the chances of picking up an E-Pack when energy is critical.
* AI Pathfinding on Luna, 0x001 and 0x003 is broken; ships and Auto-Pilot are cutting corners too hard and crashing straight into them (Toxic Class).
* Rain sound effects on Ishtar Citadel are probably too loud.
* The first Boost Jump on Makeno Bay is perhaps too extreme a speed boost for Toxic Class.
* The track icons for Atlantica and Marina Bay are identical.
* When racing in a WipEout ship, cause all AI ships to also fly ships from the same game.
* Add numerical statistics to all the classic WipEout ships
* Still wondering when/if/how the WipEout 3 ships can be implemented.

[Zynetic]

I decided to give Ballistic NG a spin and I have to say I'm very pleased with its presentation and implementation. It's a great blast to play, although...

I've been playing through the campaign and I can't help but feel like the AI on Spectre class needs a little bit of toning down (or perhaps in general). I'm currently on the second stage (Utah Project, I believe?) and it's absolutely impossible to keep up with the AI ships. They don't seem to lose any speed when bouncing or taking corners, and even when I play (almost) perfectly, I'm unable to get 1st place. I've tried well over 30 times and I've completely given up trying to clear the campaign because of it. Difficulty is fine but it does seem like the AI isn't fully balanced yet.

Apart from that, I'm stoked for the full Steam release. Definitely my favourite fan-project!

EDIT: Also very pleased to see that Zone makes a return (my absolute favourite mode from the later WipEout games) as Survival, however would like to report that you can just not hold acceleration or hold both airbrakes to come to a stop and still progress. I assume this isn't meant to be the case (and also you assume you know it, but just in case).

[GGeek]

@slowriderxcorps : Thanks for reporting these issues. bigsnake is aware of the AI pathfinding issue on Luna (i also discovered it was broken), we will work on it soon.
As for the WipEout 3 ships, bigsnake and Xpand managed to extract the ship models and UV'd them.
You can find the link to download them in this thread : http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/sho...mages-allowed)
Simply extract the WO3 folder in the MyShips folder and you should be ready to rock.

@Zynetic : I reported the Survival issue to bigsnake. Airbrakes as well as the pitlane are actually disabled but the full throttle control to the user is not intended. A fix will be worked on soon.

[bigsnake]

Okay! From my limited time with the Steam version so far it seems most everything feels to be in order. I was taking notes in any case, and so I'll leave here what I had jotted down.

* Default positioning of the Key Binder scroll window is at the bottom of the list instead of the top (both computers).
Side note to this, at 1080p every command within the Key Binder fits on the window, no need for scroll bar at all?
* Left Shift was not being recognised by the Key Binder (both computers).
* There is a slight camera shift during the start of races on Aciknovae (most likely when passing the exit to the Pit Lane) (Toxic Class).
* Replay Camera locations on Zephyr Ridge and Makeno Bay are out-of-bounds.
* Auto-Pilot pickup needs heavy modifications to combat the loss in speed when activated and pathfinding issues (Toxic Class).
* Perhaps some alterations to Pickup Logic need to be considered to prevent picking up the same item multiple times in a row.
As well as perhaps slightly increasing the chances of picking up an E-Pack when energy is critical.
* AI Pathfinding on Luna, 0x001 and 0x003 is broken; ships and Auto-Pilot are cutting corners too hard and crashing straight into them (Toxic Class).
* Rain sound effects on Ishtar Citadel are probably too loud.
* The first Boost Jump on Makeno Bay is perhaps too extreme a speed boost for Toxic Class.
* The track icons for Atlantica and Marina Bay are identical.
* When racing in a WipEout ship, cause all AI ships to also fly ships from the same game.
* Add numerical statistics to all the classic WipEout ships
* Still wondering when/if/how the WipEout 3 ships can be implemented.

Thanks for the list! Most of these issues have been already fixed and will be in the next update on Steam. As GGeek says, for the Wipeout 3 ships right now you need to use the the objs linked (you'll need to post a bit on the forums before being able to access that specific forum though)

[aybe]

@bigsnake

FWIW here are some thoughts:

Section/collisions

If there are AI collisions at some places and movement is based on sections that are connected using a spline approach ... wow ... then you might want to consider using Bezier instead. One of the features but also a weakness of spline is that the output will invariably pass through control points; and while it works most of the time, on sudden changes it does change a bit too much than one would expect (i.e. in my cases it's before/after a jump section, there are definitely not enough points for it to behave correctly and add to that the factor that a section position is at center or at beginning of faces making it; at some point the ship will hit the track).

OTOH Bezier curves when evaluated will not pass through control points, but ultimately your level designer should consider adjusting it manually, it's a bit long but once done it will yield much better results. There's an excellent library for that @ https://github.com/jvanverth/essentialmath it addresses both curves and deals with the uneven evaluation of them according their shape + it can or not generate control points for you. This is the repository of the book samples, every chapter has a sample demo you can try to see if that might be useful to you.


Input/menu

In BnG there is a problem such as when you click outside of the menu, navigation breaks unless you click again. I've written an input mapper that I was going to suggest to you but haven't since at the same I've seen your commits using another one ... it is here https://github.com/aybe/InputMapper and in here https://github.com/aybe/InputMapper/...Wizard.cs#L150 you will find the logic that takes care of enforcing an item to always be selected even though your menu loses focus (which fixes all other input methods). The other nice features of it are that it works really well and does not modify the original Unity settings (IMO a good thing), instead it has its own configuration serialized to XML. See the https://github.com/aybe/InputMapper/...rdSample.unity for a showcase.

Cheers

EDIT: btw the input mapper also emulates an analog keyboard

[bigsnake]

Splines aren't used at all. Sections on the track are connected through a reference on them that points to the next section. The AI use this to look a few sections ahead (3 or 4, depends on the track) and then they steer towards it. Using splines for this sort of thing is really inefficient. The AI collisions are caused by them naturally steering near the same location, which is then solved by making a random offset modifier for their location to look at then providing them with behaviors to steer away if they detect another ship, which I'm currently doing by iterating through all the ships on the track and then using the local offsets to figure out if they need to steer away.

For input, thanks for the code there, that will definitely come in useful The reason I chose the current input manager was just because of convenience, although now that the game is going to be closed source for a while I'm going to be integrating cInput, which is a library I purchased recently with the intent for using in future project. It completely bypasses Unity's input system which will help get rid of all the bugs, such as the Xbox One controller issue which NetSphereEngineer has confirmed to be an issue relating to Unity and Windows 10.

[giscar]

I'm in love with this game. Can't wait to try the latest version. I'm going to learn 3D modelling so I can at least try to contribute with some ships or something. If I get something decent I will totally share it.

[Axatar]

The only problem I have with the game right now is on Zephyr Ridge, when entering the last chicane(left turn) too wide, the camera positions itself behind the wall preventing me from seeing anything up ahead.

Other than that, great game I love it!

[slowriderxcorps]

Ah, figures that the files would be inside of a thread of suck kind. Not to worry, I'll figure that out in due time, most hopefully with more feedback such as this.

Just came off of another testplay, this time doing Season 2. A few things came up.

* In Zephyr Ridge, I ended up clipping straight through that one extremely tight uphill corner after getting hit by mines and fell out of bounds.
* Maceno Bay had two main things going on with it. First was, again, the boost jump. It was thrusting me so fast that about... 20% of the time I reached the next corner I simply phased straight through the wall and fell out of bounds. Secondly, the AI was significantly harder to beat than every other course in the entire Season. The AI on the whole felt a bit strange. For the most part, they were very tricky to keep up with on Lap One akin to old WipEout, but following that lap, every racer was much easier to keep up with and it wasn't uncommon to dive straight into first before Lap Two was finished.
* And in Omega Harbour, it's still possible for Missiles to acquire locks on racers that are on the track above and/or below where your ship is on the downwards spiral.

[aybe]

Splines aren't used at all. Sections on the track are connected through a reference on them that points to the next section. The AI use this to look a few sections ahead (3 or 4, depends on the track) and then they steer towards it. Using splines for this sort of thing is really inefficient. The AI collisions are caused by them naturally steering near the same location, which is then solved by making a random offset modifier for their location to look at then providing them with behaviors to steer away if they detect another ship, which I'm currently doing by iterating through all the ships on the track and then using the local offsets to figure out if they need to steer away.

For input, thanks for the code there, that will definitely come in useful The reason I chose the current input manager was just because of convenience, although now that the game is going to be closed source for a while I'm going to be integrating cInput, which is a library I purchased recently with the intent for using in future project. It completely bypasses Unity's input system which will help get rid of all the bugs, such as the Xbox One controller issue which NetSphereEngineer has confirmed to be an issue relating to Unity and Windows 10.

Alright

[Zynetic]

Just tried Survival in the unfinished 2097 track and I really like the skin you gave it, although I'm not a big fan of how the speed pads were implemented into it. (Example, but I assume you know about it). I assume all tracks will eventually get makeovers for Survival? And by any chance, is there going to be a scoring system for Survival similar to HD etc.? I ask because it'd be nice to have a reason to find a line to hit all the pads, rather than just find any line that doesn't hit the walls.

[bigsnake]

Indeed all the tracks will eventually get a different look, I still need to decide on the style I want to go with though. And yeah Survival in general will be getting a bunch more features in the future, a score system that accounts for more then just time survived included

Also BnG 0.4 will be out soon, just waiting for verification from Valve so it can be released on Steam Early Access. While that happens I'm going to be doing some final bug tests, if anybody currently playing on the Steam beta versions find anything else, be sure to let me know ASAP so I can get it fixed before the release, thanks! The Steam version of the game specifically has achievements, stats and leaderboards.

With that almost out, the main focus of 0.5 is going to be completely overhauling the modding tools to provide a much nicer UI and also extend the functionality. Custom Ships are pretty much going to stay the same, they'll just get a nicer UI and I'm going to implement the ability to change the engine and HUD colors. The track editor however is going to be getting much more advanced, allowing you greater control (animations, scripting, etc) and also providing tools to create the track mesh itself inside of the game. Multiplayer is also on the todo list, although it's a more of "done when it's done" type deal at the moment.

[bigsnake]

BallisticNG 0.4 is out! You can now download it on steam here or see the downloads thread for a non-steam download link.

[psilocybin]

I found a way to cheat a bit on Atlantica. If you hit the brakes at the jump and allow yourself to fall through the ground there's a good chance you'll end up on the section of track below (Ideally you want to actually land on the track but if not the wuss wagon will probably put you there), as long as you hit the checkpoint that's to the left of the jump you can still complete a lap.

It's not easy to pull off quickly but with good technique I think it may be possible to achieve impossible lap times at least on the slower classes. As far as a fix goes maybe bring the checkpoint back so it's not so close to the jump although ideally you don't want people falling from the jump to the tunnel below in the first place.

[bigsnake]

Nice find! Will get that fixed, thanks for reporting

[Kaede]

Thank you for making the dream of the old Wipeout games coming to life again become true ! <3

'Though brutal on the difficulty change (division 1 => division 2 feels like switching from Vector to Rapier, I get "rapied" by the walls ), this feels and plays great

[Aidan]

I've got a Linux build up of the steam version and I'm planning on starting to build OSX versions within the next few days once I get my dual boot working!

I'll be keeping links to all of the builds on this steam thread.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/47377...7304441282364/

I'm liking the new menu background a lot. I'm having a few weird issues with gamepads on the menu though, despite setting the menu up / down to the up and down on the d-pad the left and right on the d-pad moves it instead (The controls menu says d-pad up and down should move the menus up and down). I also can't get the left and right menu working at all despite having it set in the controls menu (moving between the two columns of circuits is impossible). I'm not sure if anyone else if having these issues or it's my controller. (dualshock 4)

[bigsnake]

Thanks for the build! I'll also add it to the release thread.

I'm going to be implementing cInput by the time 0.5 comes out which will really help eliminate all these input problems, will still take a look at fixing that in the meantime though. Which software are you using for your DS4? I've got input working here with a DS4 using DS4Windows, assuming that you're entirely based on Linux I would imagine you'll be using something completely different.

[slowriderxcorps]

Leaving the good word on the Steam reviews page. I haven't noticed anything out-of-the-ordinary in the latest little look-around, though the new font is worth mentioning. It's pretty good, although when I was looking at the Stats page, the 0's in any given field did kind of look like 8's, that might need a little tweaking about.

[Aidan]

I'm just using the default linux kernel drivers. I just plug the gamepad in, the game detects it, and for the most part it works fine except for those few strange menu bugs. I just tested an old xbox 360 controller and had the same menu issues so I'm guessing it's some weird Linux problem. Everything is fine in races though and hopefully cInput will solve the remaining problems!