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Thread: No Barrel Rolls?

  1. #1
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    Default No Barrel Rolls?

    Hi everyone, Hi R8Games

    I've been playing wipeout since its birth, was there from the beginning. And I loved it, every reincarnation of the game has been amazing (even Fusion - the 2 player split screen was amazing).

    However, as we know, the PSP incarnations saw the introduction of Barrel Rolls, and though I didn't like them at first, they've grown on me to the point where I cannot imagine wipEout without the BR's.

    Last night I was racing with a good friend and member of WZ and we were messaging each other about the whole Formula Fusion no BR issue. Now, as much as we appreciate the whole re-ignition of this game, we really had a hard time understanding why the Barrel Rolls were taken out?

    And what will replace this mechanic which requires an ongoing skill which develops and increases the addiction of this game? Some members have recommended that no turbos be available in the game and instead - an option to turn each wep into a turbo instead - for me, this makes no sense as all we'd see is weps being converted to turbos in every race. Some others have made similar suggestions but none of them require the player to develop a specific skillset as in the case of barrel rolling.... I mean, it's hard enough to BR in some spots, but once that skillset is developed, it's a logical progress for the player to chain BR, by getting extra air from the last BR to BR all over again - it's tricky, but easily done by those who have invested time into the game - it's one of the things which keeps them coming back to race with us.

    I feel that if barrel rolls were to go, we'd essentially be losing the evolutionary heritage of wipEout in formula fusion - and thus, I'd probably stack FF in line with the other futuristic racers which wanted to be wipeout but didn't quite cut the grade.

    Your thoughts are welcome,

    Thank you for listening to my rant.

  2. #2
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    I’m a bit like you, in that I didn’t like barrel rolls at first but eventually I got used to it. However, if they are gone in FF, I’m not sure I’d be so sad about it. I like the gameplay it adds (high risk high reward) but I dislike the need to left/right/left (feels weird in a racing game, not to mention all the times you want to left/right/left and don’t want to BR).

    In the end we also have to remember FF is not meant to be a clone of WipEout. Sure we shall have a bit of its feeling but not a copy of it.

  3. #3
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    I really don't need them if the gameplay is similar to earlier games, where making turns requires sliding around them instead of pounding on side shift. I would still like a turbo feature however, maybe your turbo meter builds up for not touching walls or something like that, reward good driving with more turbo.

  4. #4
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    thats actually a good option.

    though I suspect I will still play hd fury for the br fun.

  5. #5
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    If I was making another actual wipeout game, I would take barrel rolls out. I had a couple of ideas for mechanics to try that would come in, instead, not direct replacements, just nuanced behaviour.

    Given formula fusion is not a wipeout game, I wouldnt imagine they would be included. I am sure they have their own take on things and gameplay mechanics

    *Jabberjaw - additional turbo or speed for not clipping walls, was something we played around with in a prototype, alas that 'version' of WO was ditched before it began. But it was a concept that was interesting.

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    The fact that BR's in WO are tied to a quick maneuvering of the same controls that are used for steering is now / and always has been, the major sticking point.
    Some people can do it easily, others, inconsistently at best .
    But either way, just the process of doing one will alter your racing line because of this steering tie-in.

    I suppose [guessing here] that the original idea was sort of a 'Spitfire Victory Roll' move, that once successfully performed would give you a speed boost on landing.

    I would prefer that if BR's were to be kept, that they need a different, "None Steering Effecting" control input.
    And one that can be performed by all equally, via rapid control input, rather than the hit or miss controls ATM

  7. #7
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    It's not a WipEout game... and I'm a BR-hater...
    I really prefer a speed game that focuses on the racing line and not on acrobatics!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    I would still like a turbo feature however, maybe your turbo meter builds up for not touching walls or something like that, reward good driving with more turbo.
    That system was implemented within WO2097/WOXL, wasn’t it? And maybe in a few other WOs (but can’t tell the exact list).

  9. #9
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    Not really, no. In wo3 however, your turbo was connected to your energy bar, so hitting walls took away turbo ability, but scraping walls did not. Colin, that would have been interesting to see, people having to stay completely off the wall to build up turbo. I would have to reinvent how I played those first four games if this was in those, as I scrape a lot on inside turns without losing speed. Wopure would have been a natural fit though as scraping always slows you down to some degree depending on how hard you are hitting.

  10. #10
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    Hmm that’s weird. I was convinced that you raced over Talon’s Reach (1st track of WO2097/XL) with Piranha extremely fast thanks to the never-ending speed that was implemented in the game. Man, you’ve just shattered the Myth of Sartwell :(

  11. #11
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    Ha! . Actually, I am .1 behind Arnaud's record on that one. He had a 1:14.6, and I had a 1:14.7. However, I discovered codes for every ship in the game, and was able to change the handling and speed. I was able to do a 56.9 with a feisar. Here is the link. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qBoKqnCPOkk Arnaud helped me test a new set of stats for all the ships to make a really hard challenge. I should actually get back into making that this year, as it was coming out quite good.

    You could also be thinking about the time I figured out how to make autopilot go 2500 kph, and was doing 4.3 second laps on Talon's Reach

  12. #12
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    OK, looks like I was mistaken. I read the never-ending speed thing such a long time ago (I think wipeoutzone was still hosted on ezboard) that maybe I remember it wrong or I just read it wrong. It could have been a wish rather than a fact. It would still be a good idea for FF, though :)

    PS. nice vid I can’t remember how well I was performing on Talon’s Reach but I know I was far behind Arnaud and you. Tons of memory on this game. I wish FF will be as memorable as WO2097.

  13. #13
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    Sorry, I took this thread away from the topic, back to barrel rolls

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    In wo3 however, your turbo was connected to your energy bar, so hitting walls took away turbo ability, but scraping walls did not.
    Even more some, wasn’t there some kind of (rather uncontrollable) speed boost in WO3 (SE?) when scraping walls? On another note, in WOHD’s zone mode your energy bar refilled for not hitting walls for certain times. This was even the case with WOPure, if I remember correctly.

    To sum it up: No barrel rolls please

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    Sorry, I took this thread away from the topic, back to barrel rolls
    No man, that was cool

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    Sorry, I took this thread away from the topic, back to barrel rolls
    First, if there was someone to blame it would be me ;) But I wouldn’t say it’s off-topic anyway. I think everyone who enjoyed barrel rolls (incl. the OP imho) enjoyed the fact that you could get a speed boost under certain circumstances decided by the player (as opposed to Turbo boosts which mostly require you to have luck with pads). In this sense I think you’re totally on-topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    Not really, no. In wo3 however, your turbo was connected to your energy bar, so hitting walls took away turbo ability, but scraping walls did not.
    I've been playing WipEout 3: SE for a while, and there's a funny physics quirk that when you scrape the wall, it speeds you up so long as you're scraping the wall.

  18. #18
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    Same thing with WO 2097

  19. #19
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    Speed scraping in Wipeout 3 happens more often than woxl, woxl is more seamless. Different versions of wo3 do it differently, and there are certain spots where it happens, it is not everywhere. Confused yet?
    Last edited by JABBERJAW; 10th January 2015 at 12:13 PM.

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    If the FF has the depth of difficulty like WO HD I don't mind not having BR's. I'm a fan oF WO HD because it has a very nice balance between knowing the game the tracks the lines and again reinventing the game by mastering the BR. It's a whole new game. It's also a skill which means that not everybody can perform the same way... I don't mind that, it's always a challenge to go faster and BR's make it happen. They give room for much improvement and adaptation which makes the game very competitive and long lasting!

    I'd say if I don't have BR's i would like a very crazy physics pallet that let's you evolve in so that the boundaries of how fast you can go and how hard it is to do it will be vast and infinite. Not just upgrades or knowing the track! Something that requires a skill development (such as BR's) to give that extra dimension to the game!
    And yes not everybody can be very good at WO. But you can try
    Otherwise there are plenty of racing games that can offer you a nice but static racing experience with nice and down to earth physics! WO is great because it's beyond that.

    I expect FF to be a very difficult game, I really do! With BR's or not but damn difficult, detailed and unforgiving!
    ...but rewarding you with that great chill when you smooth things up and dive in the track!
    And wishing to have our fetish game for the next decade online!
    Cheers!

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