Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 46

Thread: Experts and masters of WipEout, let's bring it to Awesome Games Done Quick!

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Stockport, UK
    PSN ID
    Snakenator1
    Posts
    1,073

    Default

    Idea, we don't "necessarily" have to speed run HD Fury. Why not speed run one of the earlier games? the PS1 classics?

    I'd then recommend Wip3out/ SE cause that game can get very challenging later on and a speed run of it would be to get all the gold medals (standard race, time trials, weapon challenges etc) so there is plenty to do.

    2097 (all gold medals and the piranha tournament) is also a good candidate or simply the first WipEout which is also one of the hardest.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mannjon View Post
    I get all that about being offline. I never actually meant to suggest any online event. Online events should not be part of a speed run for reasons you've stated.

    My problem is with the manner in which you propose event, and the way you immediately shut off all but Elite Phantom being not "impressive." I'll remind you that Beat Zico is a Venom challenge, and that trophy alone according to the PSN network page alone gives people the most problems aside from Transcendence.

    But in all of this, xI-eI2aiiZZa-Ix makes a compelling argument here: It is a catch-22 to crush Elite AI to show the difficulty of the game, and that people won't understand the accomplishment it is if they have never played the game before. The only impressive Zone mode is when the zone gets up over 120, and that would take at least half an hour or more.

    So if this really is a "how fast can you beat this game" type of event, I think there are some good solutions on this page. In fact, if you aren't playing through all the events as Snake has suggested to get ECL (and you skip the lengthiest events), one can easily progress quickly through the entire grid. Maybe even in less than 1:30. Maybe I'm just unclear as to how the donation things work. I'm still trying to envision this as a "speed run" and I don't understand all the tie ins.
    After seeing some videos of speed laps and races in slower classes, I admit I vastly underestimated the wow factor of it: so I stand corrected about saying that only Phantom Elite was impressive. Sorry about that. That'll teach me to judge solely on pure speed.

    Talking about the speedrun, the basic goal would be of course completing the campaign in hard mode. But the fact is there is no definite ending, except from completing all 87 events. So we need to define a goal: reaching the Meltdown grid and winning the Tournament (49 events + final tournament)? Doing the entire Meltdown grid only (16 events including longer ones)? The problem is, the former will involve redudancy as each track will appear in average 6 times. They may be in different modes and speed classes, but I'm pretty sure we'll see at least 2 speed lap events on each track on different classes. Many campaign modes in racing games are just limited to win cups or championships - which is basically resumed by winning on (nearly) every track in the game (Mario Kart, Crash Team Racing for example). We don't see a track more than twice. So that's why I just came up with the same idea, winning

    In terms of crushing the hardest difficulty AI, I don't think the claim of saying it would not be impressive would be true. I've shown the F-Zero GX run as an example. Also, people usually get the word that a particular game is hard. People who played it usually tell the guys who didn't that a game can be bloody hard. I'll take other examples: Dark Souls, Contra, Super Ghouls & Ghosts, Battletoads: even if you never played these games, they have a reputation of being hard, and if you don't know about it, you'll learn it pretty soon. So seeing a guy mastering the game up to putting hard AI on its knees will be impressive to watch, for everyone.

    When the runner of F-Zero GX leaves a 26-second headstart to its "Very Hard" AI opponent (even though the initial amount was 25 seconds), it's fun, and seeing him navigate on the track like a breeze is definitely awesome to watch while he catches up second by second, turn by turn. In the end it definitely looks easy for him. But the people who know the difficulty of the game and struggled for hours to win only once this particular event spread the word: these are the most impressed guys, and they share the hype around it. People will understand the accomplishment: just seeing "hard" on the screen is enough. There's a private joke where when someone plays a game in hard difficulty, we say he plays in "the only difficulty". Simple as that. So don't fear about not being impressive to the public who don't know anything about the game: the harder you'll crush the AI, the better. It's a huge misconception to think, after seeing something that looks easy on the screen, to think it's easy. Until you try it and you realize its bloody hard if you didn't master it for hours.

    I think the Zone mode could be scratched as it won't be interesting for the first 5 to 7 minutes of racing, so we'd better scrap it in favor of speed laps in slower classes.

    Donation incentives are mostly here to bump up the donation count. If AGDQ 2014 reached over a million dollars, and SGDQ 2014 over $700k, it's mostly thanks to them. They might not have any influence on the speedrun by itself but people will donate just to have their choice matter or to get more entertainment from a run. Also, most games give prizes for a minimum amount. If you donate like $5 or $10, you enter a raffle to win these prizes. People gladly donate these amounts for a chance to grab a rare prize, and in the same time they put it towards a choice or a challenge. As everything goes directly to charity, people are more willing to donate just for a small feat.

    As an example, the "animals" bid war in Super Metroid. Basically, it's a small game feature that only takes 3 seconds from a run if you decide to save them. Last marathon, over $100,000 were donated just to decide the outcome of whether or not the animals shouls be saved or not simply for these 3 seconds. (spoiler: they were not) So it can go pretty far. And Wipeout HD has some features that could bring the donation count upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if there were several hundred dollars to choose the HUD or the team. Most challenges are here to make the run a bit longer, but a lot more entertaining. Between a 40-minute, entertaining run, and a 50-minute, very entertaining and fun run, the latter will be chosen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snakenator1 View Post
    Idea, we don't "necessarily" have to speed run HD Fury. Why not speed run one of the earlier games? the PS1 classics?

    I'd then recommend Wip3out/ SE cause that game can get very challenging later on and a speed run of it would be to get all the gold medals (standard race, time trials, weapon challenges etc) so there is plenty to do.

    2097 (all gold medals and the piranha tournament) is also a good candidate or simply the first WipEout which is also one of the hardest.
    I just did my focus on HD because it's the only Wipeout game that I've played for a good amount of time, and because it has a reputation of being a really challenging racing game. But definitely, the PS1 Wipeout games have the nostalgia feeling and that will definitely benefit them to be selected, if they are proposed. Don't feel forced to just propose HD: if you feel proposing other speedruns with other Wipeout games, do it! You can propose up to 5 games. But keep in mind that the goal must be realistic in terms of time: a short run of an hour or less will increase the chance to get selected in the final draft. Over 2 hours for a racing game might be too much, so alternate goals could be found.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Stockport, UK
    PSN ID
    Snakenator1
    Posts
    1,073

    Default

    Hmm reading that post Link then Wipeout 2097 seems like a very good candidate for AGDQ for a completion time for this game is generally not that big (2097 professionals could probably get 100% in 2 hours if not less).

    This wipeout is also considerably difficult too (I can't beat odessesa keys yet) and really tests the skills of the player on phantom class. Its also considered one of the best games in the series like purE.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South East England
    PSN ID
    Dark_Phantom_89
    Posts
    1,587

    Default

    The speed run should involve obtaining the Platinum trophy in the fastest possible time. I did type up a breakdown of how it can be done in 10-12 hours, but I can't find it.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Timezone
    GMT -6
    PSN ID
    mannjon
    Posts
    869

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Phantom_89 View Post
    The speed run should involve obtaining the Platinum trophy in the fastest possible time. I did type up a breakdown of how it can be done in 10-12 hours, but I can't find it.
    That is far too long for this event. There is also too much left up to chance. The trick with a fast platinum is of course doubling up on trophies to minimize events. A more plausible goal would be to just run through all the events on Elite. Since WOHD doesn't really have a beat the game roll the credits type of thing, it is hard to know that someone has "beat the game" however.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Timezone
    GMT + 10
    PSN ID
    blackwiggle
    Posts
    3,871

    Default

    The only Fast Run candidates should be the games capability of achieving them.
    WO - Infinite
    WO 2097 - Infinite
    WO 3 - Infinite
    WO 3 SE - Infinite
    WO Fusion [too many problems ]
    WO PURE
    WO PULSE
    WO HD [Bling Brigade ??? ]
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 25th July 2014 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mannjon View Post
    That is far too long for this event. There is also too much left up to chance. The trick with a fast platinum is of course doubling up on trophies to minimize events. A more plausible goal would be to just run through all the events on Elite. Since WOHD doesn't really have a beat the game roll the credits type of thing, it is hard to know that someone has "beat the game" however.
    I probably didn't introduce the notion of categories so I'll do so right now. In the speedrunning world, there can be a wide variety of goals. The fact is, how to define a category for a game that doesn't have a clear ending? The answer is: you decide it. You choose your own goal where you consider. And I see several of them:

    - Arcade Perfect Redux: Win on all 12 tracks (HD + Fury) in Phantom Elite.
    - Arcade Perfect: Win on all 16 HD tracks in Phantom Elite.
    - Arcade Perfect Complete: Win on all 24 tracks (HD + Fury) in Phantom Elite.
    - Campaign: Reach Meltdown and win the Meltdown Championship as fast as possible in Elite.
    - Grid: Win every event in a specific grid in Elite. These categories would be useful as training for "full runs". Meltdown by itself could be pretty popular on its own.
    - Elite Campaign Legend: Win every event in the HD Campaign in Elite.
    - Fury Campaign Legend: Win every event in the Fury Campaign in Elite.
    - Platinum Trophy: Get the platinum trophy as fast as possible. However that means having some players around to play online and get the online trophies (Bling Brigade, Connected 1 & 2, Endurance, AG Assassin), so that will obviously skew the results. Also speedrunning trophies/achievement isn't quite popular.

    However, in a marathon, the goal chosen has to be short enough so it can fit in a tight schedule, but interesting and complete enough to see a good part of the game. In my opinion, either one of the Arcade Perfect goals, Meltdown only, or Campaign + Meltdown championship are the best choices. That's 5 categories that could be selected. Arcade Perfect shows every track once in pure races against the AI (and offers some ways to put it to shame with challenges like a huge headstart or no barrel rolls or anything that would spice up the game), but we just ignore the other modes of the game like Speed Laps and it would be done only in Phantom class. Campaign shows every mode and every speed class (even though Flash races and time trials should be avoided as Rapier class has the same amount of laps) but it has some redundancy and we'd be forced to go through Zone challenges, which would definitely be uninteresting as we wouldn't go far enough to see the adrenaline of Zone mode. Reaching zone 30 isn't a hard feat at all. And Zone takes more time than a race, also.

    I'll take the classic example of Mario Kart speedruns: basically, it's all about completing all Cups in the fastest class. And when you look closer at it, it's just winning on every track once. Simple as that. Except that at the end, you have credits. For Crash Team Racing, the same thing happens: it has a story mode, but it's just winning on each track once, except that 5 tracks are repeated for boss battles. And there's credits at the end.

    TL;DR: When a racing game doesn't have a defined ending, the default goal is to win once on every track, if possible on the hardest difficulty & fastest class (hence the Arcade Perfect goal). However other goals can be defined at will.
    Last edited by Linkinito; 25th July 2014 at 02:33 PM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Just as a reminder, the submission process will start on August 17, at 3 PM EDT. It was delayed by 24 hours.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    United States
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    zzonkmiles
    Posts
    164

    Default

    I wish there was a way to start a zone event at maybe Zone 50 with half of your health or something like that. But I understand why that's not an option. But it would be cool to start at Zone 10 with 90% health, Zone 20 with 80% health, Zone 30 with 70% health and so on up to Zone 90 with 10% health. Nobody will be impressed with a Zone race as the pilot clears Zone 7 or something.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    Posts
    25

    Default

    The submissions have started, you can do it here (but apply only if you can be available on January 4-11 and be able to be in the Washington DC area).

    Having a video is strongly recommended, alongside a Twitch channel. A submission cannot be edited after being sent, so be careful. You can propose 2 categories for 5 different games.

    We can check processed submissions here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •