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Thread: Experts and masters of WipEout, let's bring it to Awesome Games Done Quick!

  1. #21
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    Well by "exit" I meant explode.

    I think getting the Platinum for this particular event is not possible because it just takes too long with Livery Liberation. But it would be possible to speed run the ECL trophy, and my point is that you'll get some of the other rare trophies along the way.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakenator1 View Post
    ...for the zone events the moment you hit the zone target for the gold medal just pause and quit and move on to the next event...
    that simply doesn't work, as mannjon mentioned, you've to quit by destroying your ship on purpose.

    edit: you won't get tournament ace along the way going for ECL, because 'tournament ace' is restricted to racebox mode

    edit2: you can shortcut every tournamet throughout the ECL run though. win 3 of 4 races, quit the longest race by getting destroyed on purpose. same for 8rounder, just win 5 or 6 of 8, quit the other 2 or 3 longest races
    Last edited by JFthebestJan; 22nd July 2014 at 10:31 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFthebestJan View Post
    that simply doesn't work, as mannjon mentioned, you've to quit by destroying your ship on purpose.

    edit: you won't get tournament ace along the way going for ECL, because 'tournament ace' is restricted to racebox mode

    edit2: you can shortcut every tournamet throughout the ECL run though. win 3 of 4 races, quit the longest race by getting destroyed on purpose. same for 8rounder, just win 5 or 6 of 8, quit the other 2 or 3 longest races
    Didn't know that about Tournament Ace. Good catch.

    I thought about winning 3/4 of the races in a tournament. Over the course of all of the grids, I think there are about 8 races that could be skipped in this way which would save around 20-30 minutes total time (with an average race time of 2-3 minutes). So that would lower the total potential time to right around 3 hours. The only downside is that it isn't a flashy way to end a tournament for an audience ^_^

    In fact, maybe I should start a new thread for speed running the Campaign with my results. Assuming that each race is won without having to retry, and assuming that all speed laps are accomplished on the first lap, the overall time it takes to get Elite Campaign Legend won't differ that much. It might be a neat thread to have people post their times for each grid. It would also let people estimate how long it might take to get through the campaign. Oddly enough, the Fury side would take longer due to all the extra zone stuff. Zone races by far occupy the majority of the time, even if you "exit" immediately after completing the event. Add that to Detonator requirements (which take at least 10 zones) and the time really adds up!

    When you think about it, there isn't that much difference in time between the Elite requirements on Time Trials and Speed Laps and the current world records. Sure on paper the world record may be 10 seconds faster, which is a lot. But that is to say that if I broke every single Time Trial world record, it would only be about a 2 minute total difference in time from if I had just met the minimum Elite requirements. So while it is incredibly significant when trying to break a record, it won't subtract too much total time from the over all total time required to get ECL.

  4. #24
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    well you can skip 11 races at least, and 14 at max.
    that's a huge amount of time that can be 'skipped', so it's very much essential for a speed run!

    edit: 1 more thing, if you want to go for zico whilst doing the ECL, it needs to be done in the first lap. everytime you reset your turbo the game adds a 10 minute penalty to your ingame clock!
    Last edited by JFthebestJan; 23rd July 2014 at 01:29 AM.

  5. #25
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    I had no idea that an invalid lap costs 10 minutes! However for the sake of the speed run, I think that it will be timed in real time, and not just based on the game clock. All of my speed run grids above were timed in real time.

    14 races is HUGE!!! That could make a potential 42 minute difference! So that would bring the total estimated time down to 2:48. And I haven't actually timed out the remaining grids. So it might be possible to get the total time for ECL down to 2:30. To get technical, there is still probably about a 10-20 second cost per race that is skipped due to having to explode an all, but it is still a big improvement. Any other time saver thoughts?

  6. #26
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    yeah, but that is hardware tuning! if you replace your HDD with a fast SSD you could save alot of time whilst the game is loading and saving could easy cut another 10 or 20 minutes overall, but as i said that would involve investing a serious 120 bucks. don't know if it's really worth it, but at least it's a time saver. and of course you should play the PSN version, instead of the blu-ray, this way you can cut the very slow blu-ray drive. play version 2.10 of the game, it's the fastest.

    edit: and set the ps3 to 720p, this way you'll get a more constant framerate, if there's alot going on onscreen.

  7. #27
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    I think I'm going to tell you some details about the Games Done Quick marathons. This is something that is really crowded, as they manage to put over 150 games in roughly the same amount of hours. So basically, you won't have everything you want to put over 2 or 3 hours. This kind of timeframe is reserved for RPGs and long games.

    When I talked about trophies, I didn't have in mind the fact that you should get a maximum amount of trophies in a certain amount of time, even though if it can be an objective. For a marathon, where Wipeout HD can have a one-hour slot, I thought the best bet was doing an equivalent to the Arcade Perfect trophy, as:
    - It shows every track in the game
    - It is played in Phantom Elite difficulty, so the hardest one
    - It's only focused on racing againt AI so there is a part on uncertainty that adds to the thrill - and in marathons, little failures are frequent!
    - It leaves tons of room to show off some skills

    Doing 16 races would take around 45-50 minutes including loading times. However I think adding the Fury tracks are necessary as 8 tracks only won't be enough to give more interest. Hence the "Arcade Perfect Redux" that includes the 4 Fury tracks, or the "Arcade Perfect Complete" that makes all 24 races in Phantom Elite.

    Doing the Campaign mode is in my opinion useless, as Wipeout HD can truly shine if you show it off in Phantom class. Let's just face it: it's not that impressive in Venom, Flash and Rapier classes. And the first seven grids are all but Phantom, so that's not a really good idea. So just ask ourselves the right question:
    How to show off in an hour all the "speed" skills Wipeout HD has to offer?

    So here's how I see a great Wipeout HD run at a Games Done Quick marathon:
    Part 1 of the run: Arcade Perfect Redux, 8 HD tracks + 4 Fury tracks in Phantom Elite races (40 min). We all know that Phantom Elite races are the hardest part of the game, so showing that the AI can be destroyed in this difficulty is pretty impressive. Also we get to see every track in the game, so that's pretty cool. Viewers can decide, by their donations, if the normal or reverse version of the tracks will be played.
    Part 2 of the run: Beat Zico (5 min). It's a really hard trophy but doing several barrel rolls with the slowest class can be really cool to watch with some explanations and probably a controller/hand cam.
    Part 3 of the run: Zone Zeus (15 min). Zone Zeus is probably the best speed experience Wipeout HD has to offer. The best track to show it off would be Anulpha Pass instead of Syncopia as the track is narrower and harder. It will be slow in the first 30-40 zones so that will leave time for donation reading. Then it will get fast and really enjoyable.
    Or tricks demonstration in Free Laps during 15 minutes.

    By the way, a little clarification on donations: the organizers do not donate if certain game objectives are met (like they'll give $1000 if you get top 50 time). Here's how it works: it's the viewers who donate, so certain objectives to make the game harder or more enjoyable can be done. Every donation goes to charity (Prevent Cancer Foundation). When you do a donation, you can affect it to one of the numerous incentives and challenges proposed by the runners. There are two possibilites: choices and challenges. In choices, the highest amount for a choice wins. It can be a name, a skin, even a game sometimes. And in challenges, the donation for that specific challenge must reach a certain amount in order to be done.

    So here's some donation incentives:
    - Team chosen (donation war, highest cumulated amount wins)
    - HUD (donation war, highest cumulated amount wins)
    - Normal/Reverse tracks (donation war, highest cumulated amount wins)
    - Custom Surprise Soundtrack ($750 - just put Darude - Sandstorm and Rick Astley and you'll be set)
    - Beat Zico ($500)
    - Zone Zeus ($500)
    - Win a race without weapon usage
    - Win a race without absorbing
    - Win a race without barrel rolls
    - Win a race with letting the opponents take a one-lap lead

    Of course not every donation incentive will be kept, but that's a good way to set things up. You must know that the organizers probably didn't play the game, so it will be up to you to prove that Wipeout HD is capable to be part of the final list. Of course, it's hard to set a defined objective for a racing game, aside from "complete the Campaign" but 1. it's not worth it as 7 out of 8 grids are not in Phantom class and 2. it would take too much time.

  8. #28
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    ...Let's just face it: it's not that impressive in Venom, Flash and Rapier classes. And the first seven grids are all but Phantom, so that's not a really good idea. So just ask ourselves the right question:
    How to show off in an hour all the "speed" skills Wipeout HD has to offer?

    Clearly you've never raced any skilled pilots on any speed class other than Phantom. This statement is just ignorant and personally offensive. I'd rather see an impressive world record time as a measure of speed skill as opposed to a Phantom Elite AI race. If you don't think donators or who ever may not be impressed by anything other than easy to trick AI on Phantom speed that is one thing. To make a comment like that as a generalized statement is another. Not everyone thinks like you do, be careful what you say.

    Phantom Elite is a JOKE. REAL skill is the truly elite human players. Getting race records in the top 100 are the hard part of this game. Not dealing with amateurish AI. Also, Zone in my opinion is boring to watch for 15-20 minutes. It goes directly against the whole idea of a speed run because all you have to do is just survive. That isn't a speed run, survive long enough and it is a guaranteed trophy. And your beat Zico taking 5 minutes? It takes one lap. That's all. One lap. But you wouldn't know that I guess because any speed other than Phantom is irrelevant to you.

    But hey whatever. It's your thing. Count me out though.

  9. #29
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    Ok, i'll just clarify something. You have a completely different vision of what is a speedrunning marathon and what is expected.

    In the Games Done Quick marathons, there is no competitive online thing or whatsoever. It's all player vs. the game, player vs. AI. I'm just gonna show you an example:
    F-Zero GX at AGDQ 2014. Just to take a small chunk of it, start looking at 9:30 or 17:35.
    He's running the game in its hardest difficulty which is considered to be one of the hardest racing games ever. And he gives a 26-second headstart to one of the hardest opponents in the game. Just for the sake to prove that the AI is a joke even in the hardest difficulty. It's the WHOLE POINT of it! The whole room was impressed, the whole chat was impressed. In front of 70,000 people watching it live on Twitch. Of course, for the elite players like you, nothing really impressive - but for the guys who didn't play the game, and those who played it and struggled, it will be damn impressive. No need to show off an online race or something.

    I never raced any skilled pilots online. I'm not part of the best. I'm just an average player to the eyes of the elite as I "just" have the Platinum trophy online. But I still consider it as a great gaming achievement. It's one of the rarest platinums on PlayStation 3, proving that this is a hard game for the majority of the players. I'm just in the position of the guy who played the game, who knows its hard but with sufficient mastering nothing is a challenge anymore. And that's what's asked at the Games Done Quick marathons - tear through a game in any way possible. Glitches, AI-crushing, precise manoeuvering at very high speeds.

    Setting up anything online-related at this marathon is ruled out of the question as 1. all the online connection has to be used for streaming the marathon in optimal conditions and 2. anything can **** up your online setup. That's a rule, all consoles that are brought to the marathon should not be connected online at all.

    When I came out with my 5 minute estimate for Beat Zico, of course you can get it first lap, but you might take some more time and laps to explain how you did it, like the barrel rolls, the sideshifts, etc. You can also show off your best speed laps if you want as bonus content. Zone mode was just an idea.

    Anyway, you can drop out, that's your own choice. I was just putting on the table a way to bring your community to a broader audience for charity. As a regular viewer of this event, I just thought about various ways to keep the viewers entertained on this game for an hour-long slot. The real deal might be definitely online play, but that's actually closer to e-sport.

    You can still apply to propose the game with your own rules, with online races and speed laps. But I don't think they will accept your submission, as the gameplay must be offline.

  10. #30
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    I get all that about being offline. I never actually meant to suggest any online event. Online events should not be part of a speed run for reasons you've stated.

    My problem is with the manner in which you propose event, and the way you immediately shut off all but Elite Phantom being not "impressive." I'll remind you that Beat Zico is a Venom challenge, and that trophy alone according to the PSN network page alone gives people the most problems aside from Transcendence.

    But in all of this, xI-eI2aiiZZa-Ix makes a compelling argument here: It is a catch-22 to crush Elite AI to show the difficulty of the game, and that people won't understand the accomplishment it is if they have never played the game before. The only impressive Zone mode is when the zone gets up over 120, and that would take at least half an hour or more.

    So if this really is a "how fast can you beat this game" type of event, I think there are some good solutions on this page. In fact, if you aren't playing through all the events as Snake has suggested to get ECL (and you skip the lengthiest events), one can easily progress quickly through the entire grid. Maybe even in less than 1:30. Maybe I'm just unclear as to how the donation things work. I'm still trying to envision this as a "speed run" and I don't understand all the tie ins.

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