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Thread: AGR2280 - A Wipeout inspired racing game

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SZEIKAN View Post
    I'm kind of curious why people aren't ecstatic about this. I know we already have SSGX which also looks great, but there's room for more than one WipEout game. Anyway, just wanted to stop by and say that this project is looking better with each update! I can't wait to see more, keep it up!
    Thanks man! AGR2280 doesn't currently have a large following so that would probably be why I haven't really pushed the game out there yet so the only real place to find the project is here on WipeoutZone, at the back of Steam greenlight concepts and on my Youtube channel. I do need to start getting it noticed though, my biggest focus has been getting the physics as close to Wipeout HD as I can and that is very quickly coming to an end now, so ideally I just need some good assets to throw in which would help with advertising it.
    Last edited by bigsnake; 26th October 2014 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Post created new page - added quote

  2. #62
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    Holy crap bigsnake, this is coming together really well! Awesome stuff, you work really fast too. Will be following, and looking out for it elsewhere like on Greenlight.

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    Just a heads up, I'm still around and keeping up with this project as well. I can't wait to see what you do with this next.

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    Great to know people are keeping up with the development I've been quite slow recently because College has been keeping me busy, I'm also working on my modeling skills so I haven't been giving AGR much attention.

    I've got most of the physics done in Unreal Engine 4 now, all that's really left is some tweaks to what's already there then I can start adding everything I had from Unity back in. I have a few little surprise features as well, the only thing I'm going to spill is that there is a time of day system and dynamic weather. I should really be spending this time to work on other gameplay elements, but I can't help myself but to keep experimenting with UE4 more and more. For the ToD system, it will only be noticeable if you spend a long time in speed lap, and then the dynamic weather system will take a track's location into account so you don't get occurrences like rain on snowy tracks, also precipitation is more likely to happen on tracks closer to the ocean. And of course all this will be toggable just in-case someone doesn't want the dynamic elements.

    Anyway, development is going to be paused until mid-jan while I get a complete remake of Wipeout 3 setup, then I'll be alternating between the two on a weekly basis (or something like that). I'm looking to get a playable build of this WO3 remake out by the time I start working on AGR again, then I want to look at getting a UE4 build out for AGR by mid-feburary at the latest. Also I'm looking for mid-feburary to be the final physics test for AGR, it's been 2 years of me getting it right and I'm now getting annoyed with myself so after that release expect to see everything else quickly make it's way in. Also for anyone reading this who has seen the jungle track that was a WIP, I'm looking to make this the track featured in the new UE4 build.

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    Is there any need for some very basic things that need to be done, like voices? I'll try my best, I just don't want a cult classic die out like this.

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    Still been following this! You really got the physics pinned down from HD, and that itself is very impressive. Can't wait for the new year.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXTR09 View Post
    Is there any need for some very basic things that need to be done, like voices? I'll try my best, I just don't want a cult classic die out like this.
    Of course! Every little helps, if you want to contribute in any way then just PM me a link to what you've done and I'll be happy to add it to the game (credits will be in a .txt file and possibly a credits screen later on in the future). I'm designing the game to be completely modular so even when the game is more planned out it will be easy to add new content and features.

    Also today I've been thinking about the engine I want to be developing AGR with. Obviously the choice was Unity vs UE4 and while I do want to try and get it fully working on UE4, I've made a final decision to revert back to Unity as that's where I'm most comfortable (at the moment anyway). However, those little surprises I mentioned will still come with the version in Unity. I'm working on AGR again as of typing this so hopefully I can have something out sooner then I planned, sorry if anyone was wanting a UE4 version, I'll be making sure to squeeze everything I can out of Unity and while I can't say I'll be making a futuristic racer in UE4, I'll defiantly be making something in UE4 in the future.

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    I got around a month and a half left before college starts again bigsnake so if you want anything like track concepts or design ideas or anything at all, I could get right on it. I can also do some 3D work, but my experience is limited to Maya for the moment so that might be a barrier. But yeah, I'm really eager to help out with this. PM me the details if you're interested.

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    Hey man first off awsome stuff!!

    after player pretty much all wipeout games a lot here is a list that I think is needed to make the best wipeout ever!
    some things on the list may be things that you already have but just stating stuff that i think needs to be in for max entertainment!

    A few things that I think this title need in order for me to enjoy it to the max,

    1 difficult tracks that can be raced on max speed without braking for a corner.
    2 have a option to never press the thrust button, but just press a button when you want to go less than the max. I play a whole lot of zone mode (favorite mode) and I don't have to press X all the time and i love that!
    3 plz add a Zone mode, I love the INSANE SPEEDS, not the lousy phantom speeds.
    It takes around 10 min to get to a speed I like in zone mode and during that time i'm browsing the web and watching series.
    4 I would like a system that for example saves a checkpoint for every 10 perfect zones you did in a row. because if you can do 10 you're good enough to be at that speed. (I dont care about the points i just want to get a zone higher ) the checkpoint should be at the first of the 10 perfect zones so that you still need to do some work.
    5 internal cam/front cam I would love it to have the camera on the tip of the nose so that i don't see my ship at all and am low to the ground, this gives me the best speed sensation of them all. flying out of internal/front cam is easier but feels boring compared to front cam if you have mastered it.
    6 Wipeout 2097 and wip3out had a bit more icy feel to the planes, (no direct movement like HD), but when mastered feel so very good! It would be nice to have 1 or 2 crafts that use this type of smooth piloting.
    7 barrel rolls I like what they do and give a extra fun thing to do/master even for internal views.
    8 scraping the wall should not slow you down but build up energy, energy that can be used to enable turbo’s. (this will make flying super close to the wall rewarding, but getting closer than just a scrape and you should get a speed penalty)
    9 Use up HP to get speed boost, like wip3out I really like this risk/ reward system. this allowed for last second wins if you had enough hp on the end of a track.
    10 insane looking tracks with twists and upside down stuff.
    11 keep the air brakes, they rule and make wipeout awesome. dont lose momentum when turning tight.
    12 Racebox, I never understood how wipeout 2048 could ship without it! I want to be able to pick what track I want to race on and what settings/mutators are enabled.
    13 When hitting a plane thats in front of me I want it to fly up in the air so I can race underneath him to take his place. wipeout hd did not do this so if you shot someone really close you you he would lose speed and bump into you thats really bad! Cool take over’s is what i would like to see.
    14 don’t give me the blur stuff I want to see everything full sharpness when my cam is hovering just above the ground.
    15 add long trails they just make it look so much cooler!
    16 don’t make the vehicles look like cars!
    17 add ghosts, so we can race or best versions, with the option to save a few extra ghosts, for different challenges. also allow replay to see how a ghost plane flew without having to chase it yourself.
    18 share ghosts
    19 simple readable hud that show speed, hp, energy and weapons in one flash.
    20 you have to have turbo’s and weapon pickups scattered over the map.
    21 have a option to change pickups and turbo’s every race so that even pro players need to scout and remember the spots during a new race.
    22 to make this game noob friendly without the auto steering. make the wall slow you down less the further you are behind the nr 1 player. for example till 2 sec delay same amount of friction on walls as nr 1 position player then scale that up to 10 seconds delay with almost no friction at all. this will bring the pack of pilots closer together and makes it more fun with all the guns going off in the battlefield.
    23 Did I mention it needs to go really fast with smooth cornering!

    Hope this helps.

  10. #70
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    Ohh that's quite the list! I agree with a lot of the stuff you've listed aswell. Just to make this simpler, I'll go through the list in order:

    1) That's the idea, the Airbrakes do and will continue to cause somewhat some air resistance but it won't be enough to be noticeable in most corners (it's pretty much a sharp 90 degree turn thing), then turning by itself doesn't slow you down at all
    2) Now that's you've mentioned it that's going in as an option, thanks for that suggestion!
    3) Zone's a work in progress right now, although just to play it safe with copyright it's called Survival (I'll probably rename it back to Zone at some point though). I want to make zones progress faster aswell, like you I find it hard to get started in Zone because it takes so damn long to get up to a reasonable speed (I might have an option to change how quickly they progress)
    4) I like that idea, that would be a very useful feature for the more impatient so that's something else I'll add!
    5) That's my final plan with the internal cam, I'll have to play around with what height would be good. There's actually a trick to increase the sensation of speed as well, you basically distort the frustum of the camera so the bottom plane is flat (normally a perspective camera extends out in all directions, but the effect of making the bottom flat is that it makes the floor look closer then it really is), I'll play around with that as well since I haven't really gotten into messing around with the camera outside of the external views too much.
    6) Racebox is going to have mutators (much like most older games made with Unreal Engine) and one of them is to remove all the grip from the ships. There will be defiantly be some ships that slip more then others, but there will be a way to setup the physics so that they slide around much like the older Wipeout games). There's actually a new maneuver I'm adding so you can drift, I don't know what the button/button combination to do it will be just yet, but you can release your ships grips to the ground so you can slide through corners at will.
    7) I'm adding another maneuver to go with barrel rolling to keep leaving the track a bit more exciting. When in the air you can also perform a spin (basically a barrel roll but turning 360 degrees very quickly instead of rolling 360 degrees). Once performed you get an instant increase in speed while you're in the air, at the cost of some shield energy of course. You can also perform as many as these as you like (with a delay between them) and can be chained with barrel rolls to get large boosts. In normal races these will obviously be quite risky to do, but in game modes where shield energy doesn't matter I'm hoping it brings a little something extra. These will also be toggable seperate to barrel rolls for those who don't want them. To add more to this, there's also a 3rd new maneuver where you can shift upwards (upshift) at the cost of more shield energy (probably about 10). What these will mostly be used for is reaching skillcuts, what I've had in mind is that you could also flip your craft when doing this to flip onto ceilings.
    8 ) That's an interesting idea, it would have to be a very fine line between what's scraping it gently and fully colliding with walls. Although, that could go well with the drifting feature where you can release your grip, then you can softly scrap the walls from that. I'll play around with that at some point!
    9) Again another interesting idea, you've actually given me an idea of how this could be implemented, let me know what you think of this. You could enable it on racebox which will disable the ability to absorb items. Instead of absorbing items, it will activate a shield, then the special button (the button used for stuff like combat spins and canceling speed lap times) is what allows you to convert shield energy into a boost. Then to make sure it's not stupidly easy to end up killing yourself, rather there can be healing strips along the track (like FZero), or passing the start line will you give 30% - 70% of your shield energy back (depending on various factors)
    10) Yeah, that's something I felt was missing from Wipeout. There was a lot of potential with Magstrips although it got wasted on really short track sections that weren't really that interesting. I want to be a bit more creative with the kind of things Magstrips do!
    11) Of course, you can't have a Wipeout game without airbrakes
    12) As you will have read loads of times now, race box will be in, I'm also making it as customizable as possible too!
    13) Yeah that was an annoying thing in Wipeout HD that really makes it hard to get ahead of the pack if your behind, also all the AI being clumped together on Elite difficulty is the biggest pain in the ass. I don't know how crazy I want to go with the ships reacting to weapons yet, it will defiantly be more then Wipeout HD's setup where the ships just slightly nudge to the side though!
    14) Oh yeah don't worry about Motion Blur, there's gonna be none of that in AGR
    15) I'll experiment with some lengths, at the moment my trials are quite short so I'll defiantly be looking at tweaking them. Also making them look nice, as at the moment the trail is just a solid color, later on I'll have a texture scrolling over it and give them an emissive material (with Unity 5 I can even have them inject light into the realtime Global Illumination, so the trails will emit light that bounces off sufaces).
    16) Yeah the ships won't look like cars, in terms of ship design I'm wanting to for the HD Fury type designs...I'd assume when you say cars you mean the original Wipeout 1 designs (possibly the 2048 designs aswell)
    17) Already in Both readable and writable to disk (if you've played any of the latest AGR builds then you can see the ghost file in your documents folder, they're not encrypted yet so you can edit the locations the ghost travels between as well)
    18 ) At some point I do want some kind of online infrastructure, I'm currently working on something for the Unity Asset Store so if I make any money off that then server hosting will be where a bit of that money goes in the future. For now though, you can actually share ghosts. All you need to do it get someone else's ghost file and replace your own.
    19) This is something I've been torn between because I've wanted both a simplistic yet stylistic HUD. I think for this I'm going to have multiple choices for players, considering AGR already has early alpha versions of a ship and track editor, doing something simple like a HUD editor would be very feasible aswell).
    20) That's another idea I've had, having separate pads for both offensive and defensive weapons in 2048 was great because you could easily choose how you wanted to race. That will most likely be something that I will add.
    21) The pickups are randomized to begin with so that won't be a problem Along those lines though, one thing I've wanted to try out is weapon balancing, where you only get the more destructive weapons if you're at the back of the pack and then if you're first you'll just get defensive weapons.
    22) That's another good idea, although it would have to be some sort of pilot assist option to get more extreme help. Maybe also only an option with the AI on novice? It would remove a lot of the challenge it was an all-the-time thing.
    23) A++ class

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    Thanks for reading and responding to that terrible long list
    Its good to know I gave you some idea's.

    I did play a version not sure wich one but I sucked at it... did not have a ps3 controller hooked up to my pc (I have 4 ps3 and ps4 controllers) I should know how to use it for the pc aswell.
    I'm not realy sure what you mean with point 9.

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    Just a note. I'm glad to see you aren't abandoning Unity. Good luck with finishing up the physics. I really can't wait to see those done, since you've got everything so close already.

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    Thanks!

    I've been code refactoring the past few days (reducing code as much as possible), it's led to once again another rewrite of my physics. However this time is going seriously going to be the last time as what I have now is completely manageable (from ~10000 lines of code to 1000) . Anyway, I have an experimental build with the new physics, there's nothing setup other then the ship (even then the ship doesn't have everything setup still), I'm also sorting out input for the game at the moment and the ship is currently only controllable with the keyboard. Here's the link for anyone who wants to try it out - https://db.tt/bXH4ZMt8

    And the default keyboard controls:

    Respawn - R (only for this build, my respawn system isn't back in yet)
    Change Camera View - C (internal view doesn't work correctly at the moment)

    Space - Accelerate
    Left/Right Arrows - Steer
    Up/Down Arrows - Pitch
    Q - Left Airbrake (Double tap for sideshift left)
    E - Right Airbrake (Double tap for sideshift right)
    Q and E - Brake

    Left/Right/Left | Right/Left/Right in the air - Barrel Roll
    Up/Down/Up | Down/Up/Down in the air - Air Flip
    Down Arrow + Left Shift on the track - Upshift
    Last edited by bigsnake; 7th January 2015 at 06:50 AM.

  14. #74
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    I don't know if it's just from my edits to your variables for your older physics engine or not, but that doesn't seem to accelerate quite as nicely as the older physics did. And the air brakes seem to turn too extreme right now, honestly. It will be very nice if the re-write is lowering the code amount by such an large degree, though, haha. Also, just a note, but it's running pretty poorly on my laptop. Not sure why, as I haven't had that issue with your older version at all (I get a solid 40-50 fps with it). Figured I'd mention it, though. Keep it up, though. I'll look forward to more.

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    In what way do you mean about the acceleration? I'd assume you mean it doesn't accelerate as fast to begin with. If that's the case, it's intentional. If it isn't that, let me know and I'll fix it.

    For the airbrakes, they shouldn't be any different from the previous physics. I'm using the exact same calculation and turn amount. It could be the camera doing that because it's more sensitive to the airbrakes so that the ship swings out on screen a bit further, if anyone else has any issues then I'll tweak it a bit.

    For performance there's multiple factors involved with this:
    1) Unity 5 uses more advanced rendering techniques then before, especially with it's multiple pass rendering (you draw the scene multiple times in different ways to get different information)

    2) I'm using a realtime reflection script on the ship. If you have an older GPU then I can imagine this might be the issue, it will be toggable for the final version of 0.2. I usually test AGR on my laptop, since this is an experimental build I didn't bother this time though.

    3) The track is high poly. To optimize this later on the track will be split up into different objects that can be culled (not rendered if not visible) so this won't be an issue, this shouldn't be an issue at the moment though considering the lack of additional geometry.

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    to put it simply, it's as if the airbrakes take time to stop working after i let go of the button. Handling is very difficult and frustrating mainly because of this aspect; I need to hold the button in order for my turning radius to shrink to the right size for the corner, but letting the airbrake button off again doesn't take effect immidiately and the ship continues to turn into the wall. it basically feels like the airbrakes have overly long wind up and wind down times

  17. #77
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    I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it, thanks a bunch! Just made the airbrakes a lot more responsive.

    I'm wanting everyone to be happy with the physics, so I've exported AGR as a Web Player game so it can be quickly tested. What I'm hoping is that people can let me know what they think of the physics and then I can change them and update them almost instantly, then of course people don't have to keep downloading these experimental builds. I'll keep this up until the end of the month, I'll be mainly focusing on the physics and then in February I'll work on actual content. Then by mid-late February I'll hopefully have a full build ready.

    Here's the link - https://db.tt/AFsatJgk

    Changes:

    09/01/2015 | Experimental 2
    - Increased airbrake gain and falloff interpolation speeds
    - Added airbrake drag (back of the ship now physically swings out when you airbrake)
    - Added camera airbrake return spring (still needs tweaking)
    - Disabled drag on the ship and replaced it with my own drag solution (gives me loads of freedom on how the ship pilots)
    - Disabled Air Flips
    Last edited by bigsnake; 9th January 2015 at 09:05 PM.

  18. #78
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    I think he may have pinpointed the airbrake problem I was having. As far as the acceleration, I think what the issue actually is is just the speed of the ship is faster than I'm used to. That, coupled with the lower framerate I'm getting and the slippery airbrakes, and I wasn't really able to control the ship.

    On that note, I tried to play the web build, but it fails to download the data file. It also says "Built with beta version of Unity. Will only work on your computer!" at the top, which may be why I can't play it. So, I can't check the changes that most likely solved the problems, haha. xD

  19. #79
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    Ah okay, that would make sense

    For that error, I'm using the beta version of Unity 5 although I've had a few friends who have been able to test it for me just fine. I think it could just be to do with versions, if you already had the Unity Web Player installed before trying it then download the latest version , otherwise I'll see if I can get the WebGL player to build (I was going to do WebGL first but it threw a bunch of errors at me). If I can't do that, I'll just upload a normal version of the game.

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    Not sure if I did have an outdated version of the web player or not, but updating didn't change anything, unfortunately. xP

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