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Thread: WOHD post vs pre patch

  1. #1
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    Default WOHD post vs pre patch

    Maybe YELDAR has done this, but I was wondering if we could get a head to head comparison of best TT times ( full race) between pre and post patch. I know he has said single lap differences, but it just seems harder to really maximize a lap now consistently for 5 laps. I'm interested as to how close you can actually get to the previous times over the course of a real race. Maybe an amphesium reverse test and chenghou rev would be a good place to see. It feels like 1-2 seconds to me

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    Pre-patch I make good times online but no upload to record chart.

    Last week I play some offline I do the TT and SL and I beat my old times. I am not usual for play offline so I can not make accurate sample of this. I am happy I beat my old time in campain TT and SL. It is not good time but better from past time.

  3. #3
    yeldar2097's Avatar
    yeldar2097 is offline WipEout HD Cup - Quarter Finalist Veteran Pilot
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    Maybe he has
    NB: Phantom Only but rules apply across all speed classes

    It's very track dependent, as has always been the way. The amount of time gained per BR, per sideshift etc...that has always varied from track to track, now you have the added changes from the patch to factor in as well.
    So yes as a result of this, lap on lap will be not only slower, but harder to get close to the optimal time, which in turn makes it even harder to maintain the required levels of consistency to reach the new target lap time for 5 laps.

    Taking Chenghou Reverse as an example, the times possible on this track have been drastically changed compared to some others due to the nature of the track. The Boost-BR shortcut is now around 0.2s slower alone, and if you ever did it the way I used to(SS-Boost-BR) it's around 0.3-4s slower per lap, since the SS-Boost is no longer a viable technique there due to the handling changes. Then take the SS-BR just after the tunnel going into the long right-hander. The handling changes make this already troublesome BR yet more difficult to pull of consistently, and not only that, the punishment for not pulling it off is greater still, again this can have more than a few adverse affects on a Time Trial. The excessive braking needed for the hairpin also loses you just under 0.1s even if you take it perfectly.
    When you have to take this much into consideration, meeting or getting close to your previous best TT lap is more than a little hard work, and doing it over the course of a 5 lap TT even more so. It generally comes down to how aware you are of the changes to the handling, how the the dynamics of the game and knowing how to adapt accordingly. There's a lot of thinking involved. If you can get your head round that then you will at least know 'how' to do it, then as always with WipEout it's a matter of practicing the execution.
    To put it into some context:



    Chenghou Project Reverse Phantom TT Pre-patch Post-patch
    First Lap (best achieved) 21.95 22.30
    Best individual TT lap 20.98 21.23
    Target/average lap (for full TT) 21.10 21.30
    Best complete TT 1.47.24 1.48.64
    Best possible (predicted) TT (accounting for human error) 1.46.00 1.47.00

    That's all for now, I'll add to this later. Hope this helps in the meantime

  4. #4
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    Totally agree with Chenghou Reverse post-patch slower times per lap Yeldar. On Venom you have to do the double BR in the tunnel just to get close to pre-patch times! Fine example mate and great information

  5. #5
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    Fantastic report! I was just a bit over 1 second slower on chenghou rev. Amphesium felt worse though, maybe due to less practice.

    Do you have a video of your post patch run? For educational purpose


    If you can break a turn instead of side shifting, should you do it now, as long as you are not sliding out?
    Last edited by JABBERJAW; 17th January 2013 at 12:23 AM.

  6. #6
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    So what exactly did they change? Ship characteristics, game engine physics, off-track handling properties? Is this update meant to coincide with the release and inter-connectivity of people playing it on the Vita?

  7. #7
    yeldar2097's Avatar
    yeldar2097 is offline WipEout HD Cup - Quarter Finalist Veteran Pilot
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    Unfortunately I don't have videos of any of those runs, was just something I did back in the day for testing purposes.
    As for Amphesium I haven't actually played it since the patch but I'm sure I could do a run-down of how that would/should work out since I know how the game plays.
    Nowadays you want to be doing as much steering as possible, as little braking as possible, Sideshifts are no longer of any advantage in a straight(ish) line and timings through corners should be adjusted in order to max/min steer/braking accordingly.
    So now it's much more like conventional racing in that you really need to work to maintain a line that will allow you to conserve momentum as efficiently as possible.

    In essense AG-wolf, they adjusted the airbrakes such that they are more like conventional airbrakes now, big flappy panels that slow you down.
    All you really need to know is that lateral acceleration due to airbraking is no longer a factor so brake timing/distances/positions have all changed, at every speed, your speed through a corner will be slightly lower and sideshifts are also affected (due to the small braking applied when sideshifing).

    Also do bear in mind that with the little table above, the predicted best possible TT states 1second, which is a tall order, however think that with the same level on refinement (relative to what we have done so far pre-patch), I think it may be possible.
    For the most part I would say expect your times (assuming you were approaching your limits before) to be over 1s slower. Anything less than that and it just means you're a better pilot than you were pre-patch .
    That said, despite the remaining possibility to beat the current Phantom WRs, I think it would take too much time/work/broken controllers for it ever to happen, certainly if you don't enjoy the new handling like myself.

    Something like that
    Last edited by yeldar2097; 17th January 2013 at 07:49 PM.

  8. #8
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    Ugh, jesus, I just tried doing some speed lap / time trial runs and now I understand why it felt like something was wrong whenever I tried to race online over the past few months.

    They must have done more than just adjust airbrakes... I wasn't a really big fan of HD to begin with, but I grew to tolerate the way it played; now it feels even more awkward and empty than before.

    I guess I'm done with the series at this point. For me, Wipeout ends with Fusion. :c

  9. #9
    yeldar2097's Avatar
    yeldar2097 is offline WipEout HD Cup - Quarter Finalist Veteran Pilot
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    It's only the airbrakes, but it changes everything.

  10. #10
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    I thought it might of been me imagining handling changes, since I haven't played HD/FURY in ages and have only been playing it recently for the Omnium tournament, but even allowing for being rusty, I know this game well enough to sense something had changed.
    It really became noticeable to me during the recent SL portion of the comp, where doing a Phantom SL is pretty much the equivalent to playing a guitar rift 5 times in a row, you're doing the same steering/braking for each corner each lap at the same tempo

    At first it seemed to me that craft were more susceptible to any side to side camber of a track, especially noticeable to me on tracks like Amphesium and Sol 2.
    I'd tap on the air brakes to make a minor adjustment to my line like I would normally if it was slightly out, but then found for some unfathomable reason my timing for the next turn would be out, and I would be scraping, if not hitting a wall, like a change of tempo to a slower one of a few mils
    Some minor, but fundamental change to the way the air brakes are now operating since the patch, being more effective as brakes I suppose, would seem to be a logical deduction to what is happening.

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