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Thread: Studio Liverpool gone

  1. #141
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    Well of course having more funding for Wipeout promotion is going to produce better results for the sales of the Wipeout games. Surely that is undeniable?

    The choice you are talking about is Sony's decision to put the funding elsewhere - who knows, maybe this actually was a good financial choice for Sony overall as a company.

    But this is a Wipeout fansite so of course the players that love this game are going to feel annoyed that the studio was shut down after the games were not promoted to a level which we feel they deserved.

  2. #142
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    You're right Vincoof - it's all speculation. Except for this: the decisions made didn't work. And Sony were in charge of the whole thing. Back in the Psygnosis days and early Sony acquisition, when it appeared the studio had more autonomy, they had G-Police, Colony Wars, Destruction Derby, Overboard, Barbarian, were involved in Lemmings, Rollcage and so many more as publishers and of course Wipeout and F1. Since the studio completely became part of SCE and lost the Psygnosis brand, as far as I can remember they have only done Wipeout and F1. For over ten years. What happened to the creativity? I don't know.

    Could the studio have been saved if decisions were different? Of course. It's a tough marketplace out there and getting tougher but many studios can stay afloat. A studio with the history of Psygnosis and resources of Sony should not have ended up closing like this.

    The reasons don't hugely matter right now I guess, except for it all being a massive shame. The history of Studio Liverpool and especially Psygnosis speaks for itself. A huge part of gaming history.

  3. #143
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    All I know if that I am going to be making the most out of the servers while they are still around. Online every evening going for 1st place, rage quitting and general mayhem

    I suggest everyone gets online and plays some races (flash hopefully - I suck at everything else!). Good times on countdown...

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogg Thang View Post
    You're right Vincoof - it's all speculation. Except for this: the decisions made didn't work.
    That's utterly true, but if you read my post again you'll see that I agree with this statement =)

    What bothers me is that some posters claim that the good and bad decisions were easy to spot beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogg Thang View Post
    A studio with the history of Psygnosis and resources of Sony should not have ended up closing like this.
    Sure the close was shocking, and obviously no one here wanted that (not even me even though I kind of moved on already). I raised with games like Shadow of the Beast or Lemmings, so trust me, if someone here is really sad that everything ends, that's me.

    But let's say you could chose how it ends, what would be the perfect ending ? What kind of ending would have not let you write it "should not have ended up closing like this" ?

    That's more of a philosophical question but maybe a good ending is an utopia. Every ending is dramatic: if something ends at its best mood, then fans are sad they can't enjoy more sequels ; if something ends with a terrible last work, then everyone wishes this never happened. Either way I can't find a fitting ending that makes everyone happy.
    Last edited by vincoof; 24th August 2012 at 02:45 PM.

  5. #145
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    I wish they could have ended it with a full game though.

    We ALL would have put in multiplayer options( no races at A or A+ is ridiculous), AND a time trial grid, AND custom controls, so that may have helped. People would be trying for best times offline, and many, many more people would have played online and adhoc and would still be doing so today. It probably wouldn't have saved it, since it seems Sony wanted it gone anyway, but we would have a complete full fun game that we could play as long as we want. I'm guessing now whoever is in charge will do nothing with it. It feels to me Sony should give a lot of things here, downloads were promised and we really got nothing for 2048 ( no, HD does not count, that is not 204.

  6. #146
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    And if a game as awesome as you describe was released, wouldn't you be thrilled about how awesome its sequel would look like ?

  7. #147
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    I guess there is no good ending really. I'm sure not even the suits at the top of Sony wanted to shut and write off development work on unreleased games.

    No, the ideal as I see it is that the studio would still be ticking along nicely after all these years. Making Wipeout, sure. But also making other games, some small and some big. Some experimental, others more obvious. And some would do well (Overboard 2 on iOS) and others would bomb spectacularly (Psybadek 2 on Vita) but in the trial and error, mixing old and brand new IP, enough successes would keep them going.

    That would never happen in a studio only making F1 and the odd Wipeout game though. Or seemingly a company limited to the PS3 and the Vita, the latter something they seem to have little intention of pushing.

    They don't let me run multinational corporations though (probably with good reason).

  8. #148
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    @ Al, exactly my thoughts !!

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Berry View Post
    Regarding the actual closing of the studio, there is much I could say but it would serve no real purpose.

    I do think it is fair for me to say that Sony management never quite made the most of the talent in the studio or the experience or indeed the breadth of IPs it had at its disposal, that could have been brought onto PS3 or even PS2 or PSP or VITA.
    I can also say that at times, perhaps we never truly took the risks we could have (I pushed heavily to make Pulse, and I am proud of the game we made, but in retrospect we perhaps should have made something else and risked more because Pulse was a 'safe' option in many ways, but anyway...).

    Ultimately, I feel for those who have lost their jobs, but I am confident they will all find work, they are an extremely talented bunch.

    I have no idea what will happen with Wipeout, I suspect it will resurface at some point, I just hope it is treated with the care and passion and dedication that it was always treated with, by the various teams at Sony Liverpool over the years.
    Well said. Thanks for chiming in.

  10. #150
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    I wouldn't want another wipeout game with racebox, time trials, custom controls ever again. If it was exactly like how 2048 is now, I wouldn't want it. It was way too much frustration. Seeing the potential, and it never happens, an extreme letdown. It would have been ok with me if they finished with that potential A + game, as long as they kept the dev team employed

  11. #151
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    Totally true, after all this year of passionate work and awesome AAAAAAAAAAA game, the must sadness in all this story is than the studio gone with all this frustration behind them, with these little black points on the board, the frustration of make the WipEout with a gameplay absolutely perfect, but without the most important fonctionnalities for make during him across the time ...
    Can't do personalised multiplayer race it's ... like kill chicken in the egg. All this great potential ... gone in a wink. Imagine all this potential ! With DLC, brand new tracks, remastered WipEout, 2097 and WipEout 3 tracks, new skin, or that augmented reallity than will never seen !

    The best WipEout is incomplete, and Sony killed him before they're finished a legendary game.

    I think is really the most sadness. Psygnosis / SL are really legends, and I feel like orphan right now, but the legend hasn't reached its peak, they touched the peak, but not reached him.
    Last edited by Staz-; 24th August 2012 at 11:27 PM.

  12. #152
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    It's sad to see Psygnosis / SL finally go, but I'm happy they went down the way they did. They only made quality games (The ones I've played at least!) and they made sure WipEout remained WipEout until the very end of the studio. So thank you to everyone who had a hand in making these great games that I spent my childhood playing.

    WipEout XL - The bug vehicles were hilarious.
    Destruction Derby 2 - Man I'll never forget all the cars wrecked at the choke point on canyon and The Learner, the only driver I could beat when I was a child. Then ramping off the other cars in The Pike for massive air before getting demolished.
    Rollcage & Rollcage Stage II - Loved the music and the style. That wormhole weapon is still memorable to this day. Online play would've made this game really awesome.
    Team Buddies - My favorite game of all time. I think it was only published in Europe (I could never find it in stores as a kid), but I played the hell out of that demo. I wish I could have seen more of this brilliant title for online play.
    A Bug's Life - Amazing game all around when I was a kid. That one bug city map took so many hours to beat.
    Codename TENKA - I still have no idea what this was about but it scared me... a lot. The Amnesia of my childhood.
    WipEout Fusion - A lot of people seemed to not like this game, but I enjoyed it quite a lot. The special weapons were fun to use and the tracks were really fun to play.
    WipEout HD - I fell in love with this game before I even got it. It took about a year before I finally got a PS3 just for this game. Worth. Every. Second.

    Gone, but never forgotten.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincoof View Post
    Many speculations and yet no proof that better publicity or dual platform release or whatever would have result in a different ending.

    It's too easy once something is done to say "I would have made different decisions and things would have been better". They made decisions based on the facts and forethoughts they had in the time the game was designed, developed and released.

    I'm not saying they made the best decisions ever, but I'm fairly unsure I would have made better decisions if I had to chose them, and - no offense intended - I'm pretty sure everybody here could hardly *guarantee* they would have done better either if they had to make decisions in the same time and place as Sony had to.
    It all comes down to sales and profitability, if a game doesn't sell then that studio is in trouble.
    I could understand Sony wanting to keep Wipeout as a Playstation exclusive, but considering that it has had both the PS2/PSP out at the same time, and the PS3/PSP/GO!/VITA out at the same time, why would you purposely limit possible sales by only releasing PURE/PULSE/2048 on the handhelds?
    Studio Liverpool has had it's hands tied behind it's back in that regard, by it's parent company.
    It's like Sony were prepared to limit the studio and seemingly run it at a loss, and this closure is the final result of that process.

    If Wipeout had stayed out of Sony's hand's, there is a high probability that it would of stayed a multi platform game [it was already available on PC & N64], it would of been great on the Sega Dreamcast, would of sold heaps on the Xbox, it would of sold a LOT more titles as full PS2/PS3 games.

    Ultimately we are Wipeout fans, and fans of the talented people who made the games.
    Definitely not Sony fans

  14. #154
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    I have to agree with those last two lines blackwiggle. I only use my PS3 for WipEout. Nothing else. I'm not a gamer.

  15. #155
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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frailavi View Post
    WipEout XL - The bug vehicles were hilarious.
    Lol, what bug vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frailavi View Post
    Destruction Derby 2 - Man I'll never forget all the cars wrecked at the choke point on canyon and The Learner, the only driver I could beat when I was a child. Then ramping off the other cars in The Pike for massive air before getting demolished.
    Haha yeah, I remember I always played DD-RAW on my PS2 with friends. Skyscraper was one of the best ideas for multiplayer fun I ever saw. Psyg/SL: You guys are having some awesome ideas!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frailavi View Post
    WipEout HD - I fell in love with this game before I even got it. It took about a year before I finally got a PS3 just for this game. Worth. Every. Second.
    Was the same here, also struggled alot if I should buy a whole console for just one game. I will NEVER regret it!

  17. #157
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    I'm not really that torn up about this. While there were good times, IMO, the general direction things had been moving in since Fury was released had been simply negative. As an example, in the post above there are two people saying how HD was worth the price of a PS3. I can add to that sentiment myself. Unfortunately, the opposite is true of the Vita and 2048 - which when I bought it specifically for 2048, I was thoroughly disappointed by it and regret buying a Vita at all. In retrospect, everything good I felt about the game when I first got it was based on what "could have been", and ultimately I now just don't think there was anything good in what SL Liverpool was ever going to do given the direction they were headed. Everything about 2048 is just a poorly implemented attempt at making a game for the CoD crowd, and if WipEout had to go down that path, I think it's for the best that it ended before it got any worse than 2048.
    Last edited by amplificated; 25th August 2012 at 12:53 PM.

  18. #158
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    Well, for me it is extra sad because I was born the same year as Psygnosis. I have now outlived Psygnosis/SLeeds/SLiverpool, the studio which birthed and raised the videogame series which is literally now a part of my being after spending so much time with it.

    But I will not lie, the brief exposure I've had to 2048 echoes what amplificated said. Likely SL didn't intend it that way but at least some of us took it that way. (I felt like calling it 2048 was a slap in the face to those who played the first games. "Reboot" in general feels like a slap in the face. Like it wasn't good enough the first time, we have to reboot it. Wth.)

    All I can say is what has already been said, that when Sony resurrects the title next (I'm sure they will at some point) I hope someone with great knowledge, love and especially respect for the entire series (not just one or two games but the WHOLE series) is helming the project.

    Also that I'm grateful that the people who worked on all the wipeouts poured their hearts and souls into it. Even in games I didn't like, but lots of others did, you could still tell it was made with heart, and that counts for a lot.

  19. #159
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    It's been a few days and I haven't had the chance to pop in, but felt that I really should do. The Wipeout series has had a major impact on my views on gaming and sold me a bunch of Sony hardware. Beyond that, the series has had an influence on my aesthetic sensibilities that has shaped at least a small part of my adult career. Only one other gaming series has been this important to me. Suffice to say, the news hit me pretty hard.

    Thank you to all that worked at Psygnosis/Studio Liverpool over the years, and best of luck to the employees affected.

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    I am wondering, how did the PS Vita sell anyways? I looked around in the internet and saw lots of negative rep and people complaining & there are just too few games on the market. Maybe that was the ignition flame for sony to "rearrange" their studios etc.
    Wipeout 2048 maybe didn't sell well because the Vita itself didn't. But I don't know real facts and it's just speculation.

    Yeah, I also hope Wipeout will stay alive. A new Wipeout title would be awesome, but for now I just want them to keep the servers up so we can still enjoy online & crossplay races.
    IF a new Wipeout will be developed I believe the team working on it will respect it, I can't imagine that they would totally mess it up. Hmmm I wonder if Sony will tell us what is going to happen with the game series.

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