weapons

[Tiduch]

emm, slow down from quake, misile and mines (if u know how to dodge other mines when you hit first) isn't overpowered, their slow down is normal for me.

Only rockets sometimes is overpower, when u get hit from all 3rockets, we stay for 3-4sec., change slow down from 2-3rockets like a one rocket hit (but damage is still the same) and we are happy.

[Flint Fandango]

@JFthebestJan: Why not? I play "weps off" since I own Wip3out. I have never started a race in that game with weapons on. (Aside from challenges and tournaments, where it´s inalienable sometimes!)
Anyway, I want to point out that I don´t hate weapons, but I don´t really like them. I enjoy the pure racing feeling the most, that´s competitive enough to me. I never had and have a problem with ´weps on´races in HD, as long as people don´t switch to a total killing spree. About the lag...well, is anyone out there who´s happy with that side effect? No? Well then, me neither. Enough said about it.
The creators of WipEout gave us the chance to decide for ourselves if we want to play the game with or without weapons - therefore it´s no problem to do it without. It´s positioned in the menu.

The (my) bottom line is: WipEout is an anti-gravity racing game. You can use weapons during a race or not. That´s up to the pilot(s).
It´s still WipEout, by all means.

[amplificated]

these offline modes (speed lap; time trial; zone; detonator) doesn't involve other ships on track, so it makes no sense to include weapons to them. detonator is a bit different, u need weapons here, otherwise u wont get a high score.
in general, only modes with opposition can be counted to this discussion. all of them have weapons..........

...except weapons off single races

And you're right - it doesn't make sense to have weapons in SL, TT, etc. - so what does it mean when the most competitive modes in the game don't have weapons in them, eh?

[JFthebestJan]

@ ampli:
plz read again the first post of this thread. i quoted it for u

I'm so sick of getting hit with so many weapons online these days that I'm honestly considering not playing online anymore. just wanted to see what your take was on it.

oryx talks about online and weapons! there's no word of offline modes, so it can't be part of this discussion. maybe u get it now. if not, i really dont know what's ur problem.

[amplificated]

The thread's narrative drifted when you stated that WipEout was a weapons based racing game, which I was correcting by providing evidence that that is not the case.

Here, I'll quote it for you:

weapons?
YES, of course. u know, it's a weapons based racing game.
u don't want weapons? easy solution: don't play wipEout.

And with comments saying "don't play wipEout", it's hard to assume you're only referring to single race weapons on mode - rather that you were commenting on the game as a whole, which I hope I've shown to be largely non-weapons based.

Also, I missed your edit:

@ ampli:
all the modes u r talking about, r exclusively single player offline modes, so we can't count it. all online modes (single race; eliminator; zone battle; tournament) re weapons based. fact.
well, ego-shooter (first person shooters) r weapons based, so it's not 15 miles off, just a few millimetres

In my previous post I kind nullified your "fact" that all online modes are weapons based (even by just 25%), and secondly, it's impossible to compare WipEout HD to Quake or something like that. They're utterly dissimilar to the point that the weapons serve completely different purposes in all modes bar eliminator, so I can't see how calling WipEout an ego-shooter or relating it to one is to any significant degree an accurate assessment.

[AG-SYSTEMS]

Well, I kinda like them, but I hate hitting Mines. Then again, I'm a poor pliot. I can't get wepons half the time.

[Light Buster]

Really hard to win without weapons how I look at it. In fact, I manage to win barely using weapons against the Elite AI on Modesto Heights.

[MyNameIsBom]

i would probably blow up on 2nd lap if it wasnt for the weapons, i'd loose all my health from all the accidental barrel rolls and wall scraping turns. But hey i finally played WipEout HD online at a mates place and i gotta say, some people are too good for noobs like me to play against. Although they make the game not fun for me because they never let me even get 8 seconds behind to them

[Ace3cube]

Results are strange. We got more "yes" than "no" and I see only few players who doesnt shoot ^_^

[Oryx Crake]

you know ace I think it's a bit of an escalation effect... like when someone on the server is using weapons you kinda have to use them too to survive or win so essentially people who want to race green dont most of the time cause they cant win that way.

and Bom I didnt really mean that I hate that there are pickup pads it's just that I dont like how I lose so many races I should win because I get completely bulldozed by weapons.

[LJtheZombie]

I've definately been starting to see the merit of non-weapon races recently. Shame that so few people seem to be interested in joining lobbies of that type.

Honestly, I'm not too interested in 'Green' races either, though, since it usually just boils down to 'who's gotten the most turbos?'.

[Archon]

If only there were a way to host damage-less races, like live multiplayer time trials. Some tracks are only worth racing with weapons on so one can roll more.

There is merit in racing with weapons, though. 1v1 or small races like 4-5 pilot races are very manageable. It's only when you've got 2 serious racers and 6 goofballs clustered around them that you're either 5 seconds ahead or 5 seconds behind.

[MyNameIsBom]

and Bom I didnt really mean that I hate that there are pickup pads it's just that I dont like how I lose so many races I should win because I get completely bulldozed by weapons.

oh... lol i see. you just hate that QUAKE,MISSILE, PLASMA, MISSILE, CANNON being spoken by that lady dont you?

[Frailavi]

We don't hate weapons, not in the least. We're merely against pilots, who normally would fly neck-and-neck otherwise, that use weapons to ensure an easy victory.

If I'm directly behind you and I can't pick up pads to raise my shield or attack you - Which I try to always fly green regardless - then why is there a need to mine and bomb me?

Even DP and I use a missile or two on each other from time to time, but we usually finish our races fairly close to one another. Those races are always the most fun.

That's just my take on it though, everyone plays the game differently and there's no right or wrong way to play it.

[leungbok]

The game is in cause there, not the pilots ! I personnaly don't expect from the average players to be fair, mostly when the game isn't ! Anyway i maybe expect more from experienced pilots.
- The use of lot of bombs/mines when you're first is logical and fair IMO (when i'm more than 5 sec in front, i prefer to absorb ).
- Spamming bombs/mines when you're penultimate is weak IMO ! The goal of just not being last is not what i expect from experienced pilots. To me, they must always fight for the win, even if they're far from the lead.
- Using bombs when you're last to hit the leader is the worst for me. It's not a tactical to win, because if you're last there's almost no chances to catch the leader (in a balanced room off course), but only to annoy the first pilot :-
- Usually people focused too much on who's in the room, not on their race.
- People i like to race with, are those wanting to be always fast, who uses their weapons to overtake or slowdown contenders, but who also absorb a bit to do BRs and increase their advance.

All that, except on team races, off course

But really, there's no player to blame here. It's the game system who's in cause, because it allows all those possibilities. i really prefer one thousand time the weapon system in blur or skydrift, when you can chose your items and don't rely on luck but tactics, it's perfectly balanced between piloting and dogfight. But hey, wipeout HD is like it is, so when you play it, you know what to expect. It can be fun anyway, but i personnaly don't pay attention on multiplayer results or on who i'm winning or losing, there's too much random factors.


Edit : about that, i like eliminator mode, and i find this mode far more fair than SR

[feisar rocket]

Well I hate some people in Zone battle. Spamming boost, I call it .3ing and the people Zone Bombers. Oh man Syncopia is just riddled with bariers in people's race line. Every 5 seconds. "Contender Eliminated!" And the lady can't even say barrier. You just hear "ba-ba-barri-barrier.......barri-ba-barrier."

That and air combat...but I guess my rant is long enough and nobody wants to read this anymore.

[Archon]

Even the computer spams barriers! You're supposed to place them in strategic places, forcing an opponent to hit it, shield through it, or miss the boost pad. I don't even play on the Zone-only levels because they're like four-lane highways. The best Zone Battle tracks must have choke points.

[feisar rocket]

...computer spams barriers! You're supposed to place them in strategic places...

I know but I mean SPAM, just all over the place. I put them in strategic places but, these people, if you're looking at the progress bars: zone 20.0 - 20.4 - 20.9 - 21.5, and 4 people are doing that (not exactly, but you see what I'm saying?)... After zone 35, dodging is hard. Like playing dodge ball and 20 people is against 1 person.

[Colonel]

There's really only one way to deal with barrier spammers, and that's to fight fire with fire. Get a friend and together turn it into a genuine Spam Race - i.e. you have to boost or absorb whenever possible. Denton and I did this a while ago when playing a particularly annoying guy and he left immediately. They don't like it when you do it back

[Oryx Crake]

@colonel__gadaffi Actually that works quite well with weapon spammers as well... like avi said earlier I try to race green most of the time but every now and then you'll run into your average army boy who wins simply cause he's the only one spamming weapons (this seems to be more common on flash and rapier races than phantom but even phantom has it's army boys) those guys tend to be the first to leave once you start firing back.