(SSGX Origins) Let's make a Wipeout game! This time for real!

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

The Plasma Bolt was VERY effective in the F7200 League

[Xpand]

I don't recall having to aim it as much as today's PB...

"Crap, didn't notice FEISAR's post what just above mine..."

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

*snip*

[zero3growlithe]

Homing missiles created for fun (auto targetting to nearest enemy) and main menu script rewritting in progress for easier future changes. Ship physics finally please me... i mean it is good but could be better as always

[wildmorgan]

I don't recall having to aim it as much as today's PB...

Exactly, this is the reason why I don't think it should be considered a "cheap" weapon as vincoof implied earlier... It's powerful, but hard to get a shot on target.

[docfo4r]

Good work, zero!
So, should we now concentrate on which weapons to be in SSGX eventually so you programmer-guys can continue working on those weapons [because I think it takes a long time to create every weapon: Programming, pickup symbol, describtion, damage level, visual effects, sound-fx...].
Should we create a new thread and make a poll for each pickup or can we find a solution over here? What do you guys think

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Erm... Amaroq, aren't you exaggerating a little with your way of speaking? Calling someone a dog is not really nice...
Back on topic: Homing missiles created for fun (auto targetting to nearest enemy) and main menu script rewritting in progress for easier future changes. Ship physics finally please me... i mean it is good but could be better as always

It was suppossed to be meant as a joke.

Oh, did anyone see my idea for a team? I know it is a little too late to add teams, but still, the idea has some potential.

[Oryx Crake]

@doc: yeah I wouldn't suggest that all weapons be gun type weapons, that would make for imbalance just as much as auto aim ones just as you say, I just meant that those are the weapons I like the most , and that I think that if we have a big array of different weapons then more of them should be unguided than auto aim.

on the subject of the teleport it would be interesting to see that as sort of a portal gun from the game portal (cept without the double shot) say for example you're coming up to a hill you shoot a portal onto the track and can go through the hill fora short time, but you have to aim your ship right through the portal or something... an assisted short cut as it were, but again if anyone shoots your portal it's gone.

[Xpand]

Lol, getting a bit F9000-ish here!
Remember that this is the Amateur league we're talking about. Technologically advanced weapons are very expensive...
Also I'm a bit low on modeling inspiration... Lets see if this improves...

[docfo4r]

Yeah, I think that portal gun thing is an awesome idea. Anyway, I felt free enough to create a list of weapons on my own. Not a list of all ideas we had but a list of all weapons where I think they should be in SSGX, not more not less. For describtion of each weapon check this post!

ASSAULT: Tractorbeam, Rockets, Missile, Impulse, Canon, EMP
DEFENSIVE: Mines, Magnets
SELF-USE: Turbo, Gravitron, Teleporter, Phantomizer

Makes 12 in total. I think more pickups would be too much confusing. No shield there because the Phantomizer kinda does that job.
@Xpand: Yeah, but why not having one or two technical highlights in our weapon system to add up to the "WOW"-effect.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Does the Phantomiser protect the user from damage sustained when colliding with walls? Shield basically renders the user invulnerable for a brief period.

Also,for the Mach One speed class:Sonic Turbo as a holdable weapon that is not affected regardless of weapons from weapon pads,or should the pilot be unable to pick up other weapons when the Sonic Turbo is loaded?

[docfo4r]

Nope, Phantomizer protects you from ship collisions and weapons. Everything AI-based. You need to care for your raceline by yourself
Thats why I said it kinda does that job.

[BrunoDG]

I liked the Portal Gun idea, but I was thinking about using it like some sort of mine:
- You're running and drop the first bomb, that'll be the spawning spot;
- Then, some miles ahead, you drop the second bomb;
- By the time someone passes through the second bomb, that ship would be respawn into the first spot automatically
But that weapon would be available only for the Phantom / Mach-One leagues and it's name would be "Warp Mine" (please, feel free to change. This name is REALLY cheesy =P).

Another concept I was thinking about was the "Tractor Trap". This weapon would be something like:
- You're running, then drop the mine.
- A pure, innocent driver passes through the mine.
- Instead of exploding, this mine would drag the ship for the core of a "vortex" , which would last for 2 or 3 seconds.
Sure it would be an annoying trap! Just for making things get complicated!
By the way, the "Tractor Trap" would be available for all leagues, from Rapier to Mach-One, since it would be sorta cheap to make.

What do you think?

Oh, and sorry for disapearing for long periods of time, work is taking all my social life >.<

[vincoof]

Exactly, this is the reason why I don't think it should be considered a "cheap" weapon as vincoof implied earlier... It's powerful, but hard to get a shot on target.

Aiming difficulty is the baseline of instakill-like weapons, be it an headshot with a sniper gun in a First Person Shooter or be it a close and precise Plasma Bolt in WipEout. Instakill with 100% success would be a poor design in any game. However, from a personal point of view, even a 1% chance or 0.1% chance of instakill should not exist. In fact, the lower the chance, the worst you feel when you get killed ("aw sh*t this guy had a chance out of a million and he got me"). And this is not fun either for the shooter who fails his kill at more than 99% rate.

I think we all agree that damage dealt should be roughly proportional to the difficulty of hitting the target (or targets). But in my humble opinion there shouldn't be extreme cases. I think a 1% chance hitting weapon that removes 99% of a ship "health points" is not fun. Neither would be a 99% chance weapon which deals 1% damage (which fortunately is not in the lists I've seen). All weapons should have a decent chance of hitting and a decent amount of damage, it will be both rewarding for the shooter while not being frustrating for the target. With that said, I'm not telling to make all weapons identical : there should be weapons a bit more powerful than others otherwise the weapon system would be boring as hell.

[docfo4r]

Totally agree with you vincoof. A 99% damage weapon almost feels like a cheat... sv_killtarget or something Can't see the fun in that one.

@BrunoDG Not to be rude about your ideas, maybe I got them wrong. But when I imagine, you lay down two bombs, say you lay the first one at the finish line, than race almost a whole lap and place the second one, does it mean that whoever travelles in that portal get's pushed back for almost a whole lap? I think it's best to build in a limit of distance between those bombs and a travel-meter running down in your HUD after placing the first bomb. Also I wouldn't call them bombs then, but portals. However, I still think that's confusing and I like the idea of using the portal for yourself in the first place.
So the tractor trap kinda freezes the motion of an enemy ship passed over it for a while? Now that would be one powerful weapon, if we really use it we have to make sure that the effect lasts maybe for 1 second only, 2 at maximum. But I like this idea more than the first one since we might use that "portal gun" already.

I created a list of damage dealt to the AI as well as a describtion & absorbation rate [even I don't know if we integrate absorbation ability].

TRACTORBEAM +++ Damage for a brief hit: 3% +++ Time lasting: 3 seconds +++ Absorbation: +5% shield +++ So most damage would be 18% [two "hits" in one second possible], a laserline which aims the direction of the ships nose.
ROCKETS +++ Damage for one rocket: 10% +++ Shoots 3 rockets at once +++ Absorbation: +12% shield +++ Like the rockets in Wipeout. Maybe, to change it up a little bit: Just two rockets left & right get fired so aiming will be advanced aswell.
MISSILE +++ Damage: 15% +++ Homing +++ Absorbation: +15% shield +++ Homing for the next player infront of you. That guy is able to avoid the impact when turning sharp before the missile arrives. Ricochet if fired without a target found.
IMPULSE +++ Damage: 0% +++ Force field +++ Absorbation: +5% shield +++ Shoots a ball which impacts some miles ahead on the track and creates a force field pushing the AI away from the center of the impact. AI can also be shot directly.
CANON +++ Damage for one bullet: 3% +++ 30 bullets +++ Absorbation: +7% shield +++ Used like a minigun, works like the Canon in Wipeout.
EMP +++ Damage: 0% +++ Absorbation: +10% shield +++ Creates a visually visible electromagnetic field around the player. Players ship protects itself. The AGD and turbine of AI ships nearby become turned off for the time the field lasts [2 seconds].


MAGNETS +++ Damage 0% +++ 3 magnets +++ Absorbation: +5% shield +++ Magnets fall on the track, able to roll around. Then attach to ships coming too close and pull the ship down to the side attached. Only fall off when hitting a wall or another ship.
MINES +++ Damage for one mine: 5% +++ 4 mines +++ Absorbation: +7% shield +++ Placing 4 mines in a row. They last for about one lap.
TRACTORTRAP +++ Damage: 0% +++ Absorbation: +10% shield +++ Placing an electromagnetic anchor onto the track. The ship travelling close to it gets attached and can't move forward until the magnet lost enough power [after 1 or 2 seconds].


TURBO +++ Absorbation: +15% shield +++ Functions like a turbo we all know.
GRAVITRON +++ Absorbation: +8% shield +++ Creates a portable maglock underneath your ship for 5 seconds. Player is able to travel through tiny hills and sharp corners much faster.
TELEPORTER +++ Absorbation: +8% shield +++ Player shoots a teleport [just like the Portal gun in Valve's "Portal"] which lasts for 2 seconds. Whoever travelles through appears some meters ahead. Portal can be destroyed by every assault weapon.
PHANTOMIZER +++ Absorbation: +10% shield +++ Creates a hologram of the players ship. Aiming systems aim there. Own ship becomes invicible for 5 seconds. Collisions still possible!!! Replacement of the classic "shield". EMP & Impulse won't harm.


I hope you guys can work with this list better.

[wildmorgan]

Instakill with 100% success would be a poor design in any game. However, from a personal point of view, even a 1% chance or 0.1% chance of instakill should not exist...

You can't take away the Plasma Bolt's deadliness! It's a signature weapon of the Wipeout series and it's good to have that fear factor knowing that someone might get you with a lucky shot.

That said however, I think a compromise is in order, and I go back to a statement I made earlier: Plasma Bolt is deadly in Eliminator mode, but not in single/tournament races (it's still powerful, but not deadly).

Heck, I don't know if this game you guys are creating even has an Eliminator mode, but thought I would offer my two cents all the same.

@BrunoDG - I agree with doco4r, a portal "mine" would be confusing, but even so it's a cool idea. Your second idea is very similar to the Gravity Mine from Wipeout Fusion. When a ship flies over it, it pulls them down towards the track and holds them there for a second or two. A very annoying weapon indeed, but hell, all weapons are annoying when they cause you a disadvantage, lol!

Another thought I had, when someone gets a lock on you, you're pretty much screwed unless you have a shield handy. Another defensive weapon (for any lock-ons) would be a Flare, much like fighter aircraft use when they are being chased by a missile. This may seem redundant because the shield is protection enough already, but I'm just thinking of what Xpand said about this being an Amateur league and weapons being expensive. Surely an Energy Shield would be expensive, so a flare would be a cheaper alternative...

[Xpand]

Added some details to Draco Cavernae:
Big ones:
Attachment 6463
And small ones:
Attachment 6462

If you can't notice them, then I did my job right!

[BrunoDG]

@BrunoDG Not to be rude about your ideas, maybe I got them wrong. But when I imagine, you lay down two bombs, say you lay the first one at the finish line, than race almost a whole lap and place the second one, does it mean that whoever travelles in that portal get's pushed back for almost a whole lap? I think it's best to build in a limit of distance between those bombs and a travel-meter running down in your HUD after placing the first bomb. Also I wouldn't call them bombs then, but portals. However, I still think that's confusing and I like the idea of using the portal for yourself in the first place.

That was something I hadn't thought about. Really. Losing a lap for this reason would drag off all the fun.
It'd be fair if you had a limit distance and then the second "bomb" drops automatically. Dunno, it could be 250 or 300 meters.

And about the Idea of using the portal for yourself I've imagined something close to the the jump weapon of Zone Mode on Wipeout HD. Is that it?
If that is the point, it would be a nice idea, indeed!

Oh, and don't worry 'bout it, you were not rude

[docfo4r]

Alright

Hmm it's like, you shoot a portal onto the track or wall infront of you [just like in the game Portal, just don't imagine it as a portal visually, more like a black hole]. And when you travel through it, your ship will be placed some meters ahead immediately. That jump weapon you were talking about was to increase the Zone stage, right? Well, it's not like that. Hope you got the idea now.

And Xpand: Added some grass to the hills cliffs?

[rdmx]

wo-hud-mockup_bigger.jpg
Hi,

Ignore the fact the elements are off center, but here's a HUD mockup. I saw a few of the HUDs in the thread earlier and I wasn't really satisfied with them, they looked very 90s. The weapon icon is placeholder.