View Poll Results: What do you think should be done with the GREEN league?

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  • make all GREEN races 6 laps to avoid messing up leaderboards.

    7 15.91%
  • Close it down

    3 6.82%
  • Leave the GREEN league as it is

    19 43.18%
  • Not Bothered

    15 34.09%
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Thread: GREEN League : the bane of wipEout?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE-FLO View Post
    A noob enters a weps on race - gets blown up 6 times and DNFs

    Same noob enters the GREEN race, and manages to finish for once - advantage? you tell me mate
    Weapons.

    Weapon races are for people who have hair on there scrotum's.

  2. #22
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    Lol, since the release of WOHD, i was witness of some players (good ones, sometimes members here) playing several times the same tracks in rooms of 2 players
    Strange, no ? So green races is maybe an easier way to reach top score, but it doesn't matter to me, it's still a luck pickup matter ! SL decides to make wipeout a fighter instead of a racer (new online mode eliminator but not the already existing time trial multiplayer -pure)
    Personally i don't like very much that fact. To make the game more balanced with hugely destructing and slowing weapons, is good for casual and beginners but frustrating for those who prefer speed and piloting skills !

    Sorry for my bad english !

  3. #23
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    rezatron covered me in some areas.
    i'll add:
    i dont care much about leaderboards, especially the multiplayer race times.
    as i said yesterday, except from skill which is the most important thing needed in wipeout, luck also plays a role in races.
    i mean if you play a game in a full lobby against players with same skills and weapons on, it is very difficult to make a good time.
    but then playing in a race with only 1 or 2 lower skilled players is a lot easier to make a great time, you only need clean start and lines,BRs and then some turbos...
    so yeah playing in a green race totally affect the leaderbords.
    i don't think that it's fair for some pilots who are interested in leaderboards and don't play in green races...
    it's like saying to them: if you can't beat us, join us.
    i don't agree with this.
    personally i dont care if someone has better times online.
    if i want to test my skills against other players i will choose a fast track, a balanced track and finally a technical one.
    of course i want the game to be played as it meant to be played:
    with default settings, weapons on and BR on.
    like kigo said yesterday the game is called WIPEOUT!

    just my thoughts!
    anyway, i know i'm rubbish compared to most zone pilots but at least i think i'm a fairplay pilot that plays for fun, winning or losing doesn't matter...

  4. #24
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    Its frustrating for everyone Leungbok. But that doesn't make it ok to make a GREEN league which allows for times to be reached using questionable methods. I find that weak.

    And anyway, If a good pilot can do SS chain BRs etc - then you cant tell me that same pilot can't dodge a well placed bomb or mine, or evade a rocket Nature of the game - you gonna get hit in a race - if you don't, well done! Let's see if the same happens next race...

    And yes, I also see a certain well known zoner who ranks 101, constantly repeat SOL2 fwd everytime he is hosting online that's fair though, and have no problem with it because he races with weapons on, and uses them too (yes, the reds and blues )

    Get a top time like that, and it's admirable - get a top time in GREEN league, and I frown upon it fact.

  5. #25
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    Green races couldn't really be prevented; i could easily go Green in a normal race. I would have to face weapon hazards of course, but i can decide to go Green anytime. I remember Yeldar saying he absorbs all weapons pick-ups in a race, even Bombs and Mines, to get faster time and win, hence making it almost a Green race.

    If we would prevent Green races from happening under the excuse that it denatures the core purpose of the game, Weapon-less races should be banned as well, since it also denatures the game being a combat racer.

    My guest if that we should build a new leaderboard dedicated exclusively for Green racers, but that would mean having the players register themselves their records but we couldn't really distinguish those times from the regular times on the in-game leaderboard. This situation could lead to a catch-22 situation if we think about it.

  6. #26
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    Kyonshi

    If in a 8 man race, one pilot decides to go green - be it at his/her behest - coz the others can still use weapons and slow green pilot down... that's still combat racing. If green pilot wins, great stuff - he won in a fully weapons hungry (red blue + green weps) environment. Full credit to said pilot...

    If people wanna just race without beig hit/slowed down - then just turn weps off... it's that simple - GREEN league is a blatant way to get faster times, unfairly... and you can all split hairs as much as you want here - I'll attempt to fuse the strands together again

    If you love the GREEN league that much peeps, make it 6 laps in the interest of fairness, as Stinkleroy suggested yesterday in the thread where 47 posts where deleted

  7. #27
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    I agree with everything Rezatron, OBH and Leungbok said

    multiplayer races will never be 100% fair - one player can start in 1st, another can start in 8th, and what formula is that based on? The same factor that decides which pickups each player gets: the luck of the draw.

    Even green races have elements that will not allow for a perfect time and are still going to be decided by pure luck. It's the same randomness in WO that's the only thing preventing it from being 100% fair. You can have skill with pickups, and while that's only a small portion of the race, you could lose out on that portion to another player through no fault of your own because of that factor.

    Green races allow for fast times to be made at a higher frequency than a typical SR, sure, but they aren't the only option of doing so, and even still, the final time will be decided by luck as well. I think the problem you're seeing is that the times are more reflective of the player's racing skill than a typical weapons on race, and I can see your point, but really, the multiplayer leaderboards will always be based on random elements - a good player may get a #1 time because they got lots of boosts, while a great player isn't in the top 10 yet because he hasn't seen any boosts on that track after 100 races.

    Nobody will have a great time in weapons off races due to there not being any turbos or other pickups to absorb, so they can't count, which leaves green races; which can have people bumping into one another and still have the potential of not giving you a single turbo for an entire race, and that's not different to: a normal race, where you could get 10 turbos and have a better result than what you've achieved in a green match. That's the luck of the draw.

    Green races IMO aren't about getting "fast times" - it's about being the fastest you can be, while playing against others. It's a unique opportunity to play without weapons slowing you down, and I think it's perfectly justified to play matches like that. Being as fast as you can be, to me, is the biggest draw of the game. Even if random elements still decide the result, green matches are fun to play due to the reasons I just described, and while it's gaming the system, I think it's not gaming it by enough for it to be considered a problem.
    Last edited by amplificated; 14th July 2010 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #28
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    Indeed Leung, speed and cornering skill ftw!

    Honestly Ace, you like to see players you can lap in a race? How is it fair to them for you to stay there and not let them finish a race? I'm slightly puzzled..

    Anyway, to get to the point of this thread. I personally am all pro the green league. Why? It's quite simple. I fly Icaras and hate weapons! Nah, silly joke and reference It's true in ways though. I love flying HD Icaras and also no-weapons races. But I also love turbo's to be faster and add the potential of more BR's. And I love shields to enhance/protect the fragile wings of the craft. But as Leung stated above, and I agree, I'd also like the multiplayer TT mode to be added to the game. Yes it would be much fairer that green races but alas it's the closest we can get in this game. Anyone who doesn't like to play it this way doesn't need to join in and be annoyed by it. Better yet, one can stay away and let us enjoy it while we can

    That's what this game is about, and the forum as well. Being friends, in speed!

    Now I dont think the green races are unfair. Sure, people can join in, only to find they can't keep up or are set back too much to come back to win. But that happens in any given mode! I remember races I've played last week with Asa and Cat and Chaos and Mad-Ice. They were all so thrilling! If races went well, without too many mistakes, we still all finished within 2 seconds from eachother. How is that an unfair advantage?

    The chance to make mistakes in lines doesn't disappear in any game mode. We all have to live with that fact. The new pilots are still learning how to line the tracks and manouevre the ships and may well use pilotassist, that's what it's for. If they can't handle them well enough to keep up in any speed class and see themselves being lapped, why complain about the non-existing option of cheating? We all know skill and speed are our basic cheating system, but there's more! The game has given us air-brakes, side-shift, barrel rolls, shields, autopilots, even weapons!

    The point is though: you don't need to use any of them, if you choose so. Granted, on the faster classes you will need air-brakes. If you want to be able to corner even faster, you will need side-shift. BR's can be added as well but still remain an option. One can even turn them off, just like pilot assist. And weapons. Given the option to use extensions to the piloting, one can choose not to use weapons someone picks up. They still are being picked up though! This means the items someone will find do not solely consist of green items. It's a system of chance. And taking or using those as succesful as one can.

    This also applies to races with weapons.

    Are chances to be faster enhanced by green races? I think so yes, it certainly appears so. But I've also noticed people to take different risks, to be faster. But not solely to reach the leader boards in top 20 or even top 10 ranks. One can do that in any mode given the right circumstances. Often enough even, I've seen pilots fly personal records in no-weapons races!

    Weapons races are just as fast as green races. When people dont gauge to blast the living beep out of others. Sadly a lot do exactly that. If the weapons randomization wasn't as bad as it's become in HD over time, this would probably be less of an issue. Some people just choose not to use the weapons and slow others down but to go for speed. Yes weapons can be used as tools to play mindgames in races. Without them it's still a mindgame. And I personally enjoy being faster more with good lines than when I've set someone back blowing them up or depleting their energy by 3 or more seconds.. Often the setback adds up to as much as 7 seconds.. Is that fair? I guess it is when a mistake in taking fast lines and cornering somewhere too close will let your craft meet with an obstacle that sends you flying off like a giant grasshopper..

    But calling it unfair or even a bane? It's a choice. People choose to play this game and maybe leave it too early to master it. That's also a choice. Some people are found in top 10 ranks very often. They choose to play this game a hell of a lot. But probably have simply grown to be very skilled. Playing it more often increases chances to be very lucky, especially when coupled with skill in being fast.

    Cheers!

    See you on the tracks and or in real life, let's be friends and fly high!

    AnE.

  9. #29
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    Maybe so Amp - but you leave out the most important detail in your post - paramount infact

    Here - I make it real simple, No one is getting shot in GREEN races, everyone absorbing weps and firing off Turboes and Autopilots, using shields to avoid the ram fest which no doubt ensues... a world apart from normal races... It obvioulsy gives you a faster time. I've raced a few GREEN races myself and was appalled at the times I was getting, totally unfair... I felt like a cheat for doing it. This reminds me, I gotta remove myslef from the GREEN league group. I don't wanna be a part of it anymore.

  10. #30
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    If you like weapons on races, what is the appeal of a good time? Isn't the best thing about weapons their chaotic nature that brings a bit more life to the game? Good times are a possibility, but I can't see them being a real draw for playing with weapons on. They're going to be different every race no matter how good you are with weapons...

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