View Poll Results: What do you think should be done with the GREEN league?

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  • make all GREEN races 6 laps to avoid messing up leaderboards.

    7 15.91%
  • Close it down

    3 6.82%
  • Leave the GREEN league as it is

    19 43.18%
  • Not Bothered

    15 34.09%
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Thread: GREEN League : the bane of wipEout?

  1. #81
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    I wonder what would be the reaction if people who know all the glitches on the various glitchable tracks decided it'd be fun to all of a sudden dramatically improve their TT times

    /megalulz

    If you don't care about mp race times, you don't care so don't complain.

    If you don't think they mean anything, don't complain.

    If you do care about them and think they mean something, cool.

    I personally do take interest in mp times because I like to measure each performance against my best, trying to think of what happened/what went wrong etc... it's just something to think about. I'm guessing at least one other person will hold them in a similar light.
    Just because some people take interest doesn't mean they're out to snatch records from people all the time, that's just something that may happen as a result, whether it be a bit of luck, a cleaner race, whatever.

    Some people guage their performance by their final position in a race. I don't but I don't see why anyone shouldn't do that instead of looking at the tables. If you're one of these, don't complain.

    If, on the other hand you're someone who takes interest in the tables and cares about your position relative to others and are unhappy about TGL, then do speak up. It's hard to know where people stand exactly, what with all this to-and-fro discussion. I'm fully aware that not everyone in this position will read/answer/know about this thread, but at least it's a start. I'm not an official Green League racer per se but I'm not too fussed about the leaderboards so it'd be a bit silly if I were to fervently disagree about it. It's kind of a think about number 1, sod everyone else approach, but I like it

    I've done me, you do you, go from there.

  2. #82
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    lol incredible O.O
    Lots of messages.
    (^_^)
    Last edited by Ace3cube; 15th July 2010 at 04:24 AM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeldar2097 View Post
    I wonder what would be the reaction if people who know all the glitches on the various glitchable tracks decided it'd be fun to all of a sudden dramatically improve their TT times
    Hoho. Don't tempt me there yeldar
    I don't know if I'd find myself funny after having done it though.

  4. #84
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    Using glitches to get a better SL or TT time is totally different because there is the 3 known constants, that is the tracks and the amount of speed pads don't change and you only ever have one craft on the track.
    Move outside of the boundaries by altering one of these [bypassing sections of track] and you are stuffing it up for all, plus it a easily verifiable that somebody has used a glitch by the huge disparity between a legitimately gotten previous top time and one that isn't.

    How can you judge anything like the same in a multiplayer time?
    What's the point of a comparison, apart from a pure curiosity and a bit of fun over a tournament, when you have so many variables that have and will effect any given time, most of them out of your control.
    Amount of players in a race, how many turbos you pick up, online LAG, if it's Green League / Avalon type race or if somebody has done a 2 player [one stationary] type run, even what version of the game will effect new over old times.
    You'll never know what got them the time they did unless you were a participant.

    If the Green League didn't exist openly as it does and the same times appeared on the boards, who would you go to lynch then? what would your reaction be to the individual names known or unknown to you that appear at the top of the leader boards?
    I'm not having a go at you Ace, but can you the futility of it all.

    I'm also not complaining about anything, I'm having a huge laugh at the whole topic and the points of view, most amusing.
    I just can't for the life of me see how anybody can, not only take the multiplayer times seriously given their very makeup, but gets upset enough about a few times set while people were racing in the Green League that they want them to basically stop.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackwiggle View Post
    plus it a easily verifiable that somebody has used a glitch by the huge disparity between a legitimately gotten previous top time and one that isn't.
    That's not as verifiable as you might think it is unfortunately for us.

    Okay I'm done with this off topic.

    Back to the green league protest, unfortunately Ace this post by blackwiggle just reminded me of all the "leagues" that have started since Avalon. More specifically the team battles one, where team-mates protect each other. Now here some team mates battle the other team, while the others in first are free to green.
    Where were you at the time?

    I'm sorry but it's unfortunately been almost two years where various situations have popped up that have allowed people to get faster times easier. We are after all speaking about online mode, a part of the game that is constantly different. You cannot control all the variables. Close green league now on WipEout Arena, but somewhere else, in maybe the speed class you don't play, someone is doing something similar on another forum. You don't know that. This possibility is open, as well as are others blackwiggle, others and finally I have mentioned.
    To be honest I don't see green league as outrageous or hypocritical as you do because of the existence of these other possibilities. Shut them all down and then I might say yes green league is not something Studio Liverpool wants us to do, but because they have not shut down the other possibilities (And doing so would really restrict the options in online) I don't see how this particular case, which can be emulated in different ways, is so totally different that it has to be discussed like this.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE-FLO View Post
    ...

    So why is it different for GREEN League, every WZ member BLATANTLY knows the advantages this league proviides... yet the rest of the people who play wipEout but are not members of Wipeoutzone are unaware of this GREEN format which gives its pilots unfair advantages... Is this fair?

    ...
    People who are fast at WipEout have to know WipEout Zone, because lot of zoners, including me & green racers, invite them here (or on WipEout arEna if the guy is francophone) when we meet fast pilot online.
    If we see a good time in TT or SL ranking, same thing, we contact the player.

  7. #87
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    Well, votes are about 84% to leave GL in peace (or don't care)... so we can let the Green wipers race in peace.

    I wonder who will be the next wipers with a price on their heads...


    EDIT : I don't understand the tag "French silent treatment", but I don't see the link between "French" and the Green League, for sure...

  8. #88
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    I've removed the tag.

    I agree with you Temet. No-one can prove ACE wrong because it's a matter of opinion. Neither can ACE prove anyone else wrong, no matter how hard he tries. It's very frustrating when a person feels their own opinion is just 'right' and others can't see it (been there plenty of times). But all a person can do is enquire whether or not there is a consensus, and whether or not the consensus supports their own opinion. That was presumably the purpose of the thread and the vote. I think the vote speaks for itself.

    As for the n00bs who don't like the idea of TGL when they find out about it - surely not telling them that those top times are because of this league would be a good way to solve that issue? Instead just point them here and to people's youtube accounts and if they can be bothered they'll get to the top too in the end. Do it that way, see if they don't then join in the various leagues on the forum too. I'd expect anyone who cares enough to become that good would do just that. That seems like a more positive way to bolster the community and help other players improve than putting them off straight away by blaming a lot of the devoted people who strive to keep the game going in the long term.

    I have a question now - if everyone in TGL is mostly only using turbos, then does that make it less likely that the leader would pick up a turbo? If so, then TGL would possibly actually make top times harder because less turbos would be available for the leader, and to get those top MP times you have to lead most of the race, and get lots of turbos, and not get hit with many weapons. I don't think that's how it works because you see so many people with turbos (in normal races) sometimes, but I'm just throwing it out there.

  9. #89
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    True Sat, but sometimes to help making his own opinion it's necessary to know extra stuff than the discuss itself.
    In that case, some of the complainers (maybe the first complainer) did some races one vs one with friends at the release of the game, those guys were on my friendlist, and it was impossible to join their rooms because they restarted immediatly the same track, and few hours later strange new records appeared on the leaderboards
    So the issue is : ok to make some multiplayer records, but NOT THE OTHERS !!
    WTF ???

    I agree with you temet, the guys i'm talking about are the "inventors" of (secret) green races, and aren't french !!
    Last edited by leungbok; 15th July 2010 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by AG-wolf View Post
    I really wish I could read through all the pages of this thread, but 6 pages in the span of a day is just too much for me.

    I voted 6 laps
    Bugger me. AG-Wolf an i can agree on something, ive never in my life thought that would be possible.

    I wonder who selected "close it down".

    The 6lap option is the best option i believe to satisfy both parties and to keep the peace, and to put this topic to rest. But i doubt that will happen.

  11. #91
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    @Sat : thanks for the Tag removing. I don't know for the boosts, I think weapons in WO are totally random. If not, you couldn't get a Quake when you're first (I'd like that...).
    Some weeks ago, I made a good time on Amphiseum (I think) and I had a "Well done Temet". Well, it was not well done, I had something like 7 or 8 boosts during the race (yeah, no Green League... if I'm not wrong there has been only 2 GL events until now).
    Yesterday, I made some races with Ace3cube and his bro. We did some green races because we like racing like that. I made 2 races without a single boost, and didn't beat any of me my personal bests...
    After 3 or 4 races, Boxman entered the place and firing. This the game, we have no problem with that, the room was public! But after that, it was not green anymore!

    Oh, my personal motivation to like Green Races, is that I'm terribly slow. There is a kind of silent agreement with some racers : you don't shoot me, I don't shoot you. So, I have the choice : I can shoot Ace3cube (or any other guy I know who like to play Green), but after I may eat tons of mines or bombs. Because yeah, even if I shoot Ace3cube, I can be sure he'll catch me very quickly and win with a comfortable gap... And I really really really can't stand anymore to race among mines and bombs...
    It's just a matter or personal preference. I don't try to force anybody to do the same, or the play a certain number of lap, or the hands behind the back... I'm just PLAYING the GAME as I like more! It's not a crime (yet...).

  12. #92
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    well of course you can play the game the way you want...
    as OBH said, you bought it, you own it,you play it!
    but i don't understand why suddenly people don't like weapons in wipEout...
    the game was created this way and is supposed to be played that way.
    you don't like weapons? cool! there is an option that says weapons OFF.

    anyway, play the game as you like and enjoy most guys (and girls lol)!!!
    that's what matters the most in the end!
    peace

  13. #93
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    The problem with weapons OFF is that, that way the super masters of BR find themself at a loss... no way to get energy back!
    Last edited by SaturnReturn; 15th July 2010 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Deleted unnecessary quote.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackwiggle View Post
    If the Green League didn't exist openly as it does and the same times appeared on the boards, who would you go to lynch then? what would your reaction be to the individual names known or unknown to you that appear at the top of the leader boards?
    I'm not having a go at you Ace, but can you the futility of it all.
    For the record Blackwiggle, I never named or shamed anyone = there is no one to name or shame imo. As for lynching - WOW, who lynched anyone, anywhere on this thread I fail to see that, so what makes you think I'm all for lynching eh? My issue is with the format of the GREEN league and my intention was to get the views of WZ members here so we can debate it = and I even added a poll so I could see at a glance the majority votes, so I can better understand the communities greater wishes regarding the issue. This is lynching? It's news to me

    And yes, futlie as this debate may be - you still posted in it too I am passionate about my opinions, but am not unreasonable as you will see through this thread, if only you took the time to read through it all (which I hope you have already done, but from these quotes I'm rebuttling, I feel you havent) you wuld see that I dont target any indiviual, hmmm.. can I ask what gave you that idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackwiggle View Post
    ...but gets upset enough about a few times set while people were racing in the Green League that they want them to basically stop.
    This is what I mean BlackWiggle, attempting to put words in my mouth when my vote is clear for everyone to see in my first post in this thread, is a bit wrong don't you think?

    I'm pleased you enjoyed readin through it, it has made me laugh out loud too at times, especially the tennis match between Haydn and I awesome stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by kaori View Post
    People who are fast at WipEout have to know WipEout Zone, because lot of zoners, including me & green racers, invite them here (or on WipEout arEna if the guy is francophone) when we meet fast pilot online.
    If we see a good time in TT or SL ranking, same thing, we contact the player.
    And I commend that Kaori - I myself have had 6 recorded referrals to this site, and recommended countless others... same reason as you "wow, you got some talent kid - you know about wipeoutzone?" Hmmmm... what's the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temet View Post
    Oh, my personal motivation to like Green Races, is that I'm terribly slow.
    Lol, see what I mean people? no offence to you Temet, you speak the truth and I appreciate that !!!
    Last edited by ACE-FLO; 15th July 2010 at 02:16 PM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by karsten_beoulve View Post
    The problem with weapons OFF is that, that way the super masters of BR find themself at a loss... no way to get energy back!
    No problem, masters of BR can also uses their great lines because they are super !
    Last edited by leungbok; 15th July 2010 at 02:18 PM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamyElf View Post
    but i don't understand why suddenly people don't like weapons in wipEout...
    It's not "people". It's just "some people", a small minority.

    You know, I hosted Kaori for the European Convention... and then showed him what WO2097 looks like on an emulator (= much more better graphics)... and I was so² surprised when I hit a set of mines to loose maximum 20% of my speed!
    Weapons in HD slow down very too much the ships. That's my opinion, you don't have to agree on this.

    As I explained, I like Green because I'm slow! DreamyElf, I'm pretty sure we were in the same room around 2 weeks ago. It was a pure slaughter and I liked it a lot, lot of fun. Why? Because for once, there were some people that are not 3 seconds faster than me per lap.

  17. #97
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    im all up for green races it sounds fun to me. i love doing BRs and going fast and wether its weapons on or green races ill play the same unless provoked as it has been said before setting a good time online at all is random, granted better players will have a far better chance of attaining a good time but its still random wether or not they pick up 8 turbos, this can happen in any type of race. for there to be a fair solution to all players you would would have to list how many speed pads they hit, number of times shot by which weapons, how many BRs performed, how many turbos used etc. its never going to be fair online because its up to the individual how they play. i vote for leave the green league as it is, ive never raced in it yet but would love to so PM me next time its on, thanx

  18. #98
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    Temet,
    i agree with you and i get your point mate
    you know i'm slow too but i don't mind, i'll get better someday!
    that's why i usually prefer full races with pilots better than me.
    yeah, i get shot by everyone with mines and bombs but that's telling me one thing: i must improve myself
    anyway, have fun and see you online

  19. #99
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    hey guys.

    First, wanted to confess I'm really less implicated in world of wipeout now, compared to last year. My real life wiped out my Icaras dreams, and the other cool videogames released during these last 2 years finished to put me out of the matrix. I'm just lurking quickly this place from times to times -well each days lol-, sometimes reading the post of my old good friends... Or just looking at the titles of the topics... And I just wanted to add my 2 cents here, even if everything is said with my vote; not bothered.
    First, it's already had been discussed before here. No offense Ace, I can understand you want to discuss about that matter, as you're an hardcore wipeout pilot for ages lol. But by that time, I believe there was a lot more regular pilots than nowadays. you know i firmly believe some stuffs never changed; If you want to enter the top 10 (let's talk about Connavar's ranking to be fair), you have to devote your life to the game. I mean at least 500 hours (the least you can do). And you have to be talented, basically. When you think about it, a lot of topics have the same basic answer : practice is everything. Add talent to this inhuman amount of practice, and -maybe- you'll get your ticket to the top. I tried hard myself last year. My wife was away cos' of the job. So I had a lot of spare time, and I devoted it to hd. Hardcore mode. Sometimes 5/6 hours a day, each days. And guess what? I never succeeded in getting a rank 1, despite the hours & hours of training. As Colin said recently on these boards, the main issue of hd is its awful difficulty (which is its main advantage too, cos' you have always a reason to get back to it). But you can put as many bombs you want on the track, some people are really blessed by the gods lol, and are able to win despite mayhem of the race. Why this green league idea came out? Just to enjoy the speed of hd a little more, sayin goodbye to those dumb mines, bombs and rockets. You can ask Ace3, no astonishing new WR came out of his events, and that was certainly not the purpose of these events too. Someone talked about 2 "events", with how many wipers I don't know... Because you're not talking about a massive league full of millions of players, in a million seller game played by everyone; hey this is wipeout hd, with barely... well i don't know, maybe 100 regular players in the world -and bothered by the records, prob. even less-? So my point is, as some people already said, play as you like. the green league is just another way to enjoy the game, and again as a lot of people said, you won't get any new WR easier with that type of racing. Just because of the weapon toss. All the new multiplayer world record I had the pleisure to saw with my own eyes, during these last two years, occured during regular races (I could say a lot occured during avalon events). These moments are still alive in my memories; a full grid of gentlemen knowing when & how to fire their weapons, but absolutely fairplay when they're seeing in the final lap someone able to get a record; no bomb or mines or quake dropped, and a big congrat in the end to the new heroe. People will have to realize one day that the guys in the top 10 are total super robot freaks, that's all.
    Last edited by kanar; 15th July 2010 at 04:31 PM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamyElf View Post
    ...
    but i don't understand why suddenly people don't like weapons in wipEout...
    the game was created this way and is supposed to be played that way.
    you don't like weapons? cool! there is an option that says weapons OFF....
    The question isn't "green racers don't like weapons".

    Green races can be considered like a way to resurrect a very good part of WipEout Pure : the time trial multiplayer

    Even if green races aren't perfect : players can't have 5 turbos by race like in TT and collisions are not off.

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