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Thread: 2.10 advert discussion, NOT a lawsuit thread.

  1. #61
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    I hadn't played the game until you said that. Switched on, 1 race, no ad. 2nd race, Rocky. Nuff said.

    Back to Pure and failing at Citta Nuova.

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    About contacting Sony and so on.. true, that. But I still think the "being reasonable" alternative should include pointing out the graphical issues with the game after the patch. Ten seconds extra because of an advert - well, it's an advertisement screen, and it distracts me from playing the game. It ruins the feel of the game, and I feel pretty bad about it. Since it turns me off the game completely. But if the patch didn't change anything during the race, I think I could've managed somehow (while figuring out what sort of nails to put in the letter-bombs).

    So the biggest issue for me is the microfreezes and aggressive scaling that didn't really exist in 2.0. I don't know if it actually was the same, and the problems just didn't turn up because none of the ads were being downloaded or saved on the disk during the races. But there's definitively something going on with the scaler, and the colour range. Another thing is the explosion effects - the black smoke, or the expanding fireball - either of those have changed. No doubt to make the game run smoother.

    The question is if bringing those concerns to SL or Sony will actually cause anything at all. They evidently know about this in detail, and think that it's not significant enough that people will notice.

    It's also esoteric enough in many ways to need much explanation before people can understand how it affects your gameplay experience. The same goes for the advertisements - in-game advertisements is not new, and the concept - just put them into the loading screens - will come off as completely understandable, and as if it doesn't affect gameplay in any way whatsoever. Any concerns people would have with this simply comes off as whining.

    The solution, simply put is this: noise-campaign. Noise-campaigns successfully destroyed the MAG beta, they destroyed the Killzone 2 controls, and they scuttled Factor 5 and Lair. They also made cross-game chat become the alleged "number one wanted feature" on the PSN, as well as forced an early price-drop on the ps3. Whether you agree with the method or not, the fact remains that it's the only thing that has any chance whatsoever at actually affecting how Sony runs their business. Conversely, arguing with Sony has no chance of succeeding. I can tell you right now, that aside from Musterbuster, you're not going to find anyone in the entire hierarchy at Sony who isn't a sychophant to some degree, or who has not developed a convenient blindness for anything except their own particular project.

    So here's my suggestion. We will craft a simplistic narrative that borders on lying from the wrong side, but which is catchy and easy to gather support for. Such as "Advertisements before gameplay". Or "Customers forced to pay for advertisement". The key is to have something that is immediately understandable for people who don't have the game, don't care about consoles as such. And that forces any disagreement to become stuttering techno-babble. In other words, we will turn the tables.

    Afterwards, we'll flood any channels possible with this slight lie until it becomes truth. I'm talking about fake accounts, bite-sized blurbs sent to any kind of editor of any magazine or internet blog you can possibly think of, n4g, neogaf, etc.,etc. All of that will have to be accompanied by seemingly authentic internet outrage. Not polite, overly considerate and intelligently articulated opinion like we're seeing on this board, but unstoppable stupidity that cannot be argued with. The disagreement is essential, obviously - anyone has to disagree violently, but in vain. If anyone doubts this works, then I assure you that other forums have organised and managed to pull this off with as few as 20 people engaged for no more than a couple of hours every day over a week.

    Whether there exists any kind of reasonable argument either way then swiftly becomes irrelevant. And so the demand will exist, just as the severe push against removing this atrocity altogether will be there. There will be no compromise, only damage control motivated by PR and marketing concerns. The only weakness to this strategy is that we cannot reasonably dictate the specifics. But let's face it - we won't do this anyway. It's quite clear that Sony considers us insignificant compared to their own ditto-groups and "institutionalized" test-audiences.

    I'm suggesting this, because I have already sent a piece of my "updated" review around to various sources, and asking them to include this tidbit in any review on the blu-ray version - and haven't had as much as a single reply. In fact, I don't even know if anyone is going to have a review on the blu-ray release of the game at all. Which means that the best chance of making this an issue (outside a small notice in some magazine with a sympathetic editor), is.. noise-campaign.


    ..Obviously, all of this yelling and gnashing of teeth can be spared, if some marginably reasonable insider at SL or Sony will read this - and understand that they have no choice but to reassess their partnership with Digitalfusion, and consider any future deployment of advertisement in games very carefully.

    Because frankly, I've had enough. And before I decide that I don't care any more, I believe I will have to do one final thing, as thanks for all the support Sony's marketing imps have given the community over the years. So feel free to join me in a little "amok time", if you'd like. ..


    Or.. alternatively, just help me find magazines reviewing the blu-ray release, and demand that they will include the info about the advertisements in their overall assessment.

    Eiher will do, I guess.
    Last edited by nipsen; 9th November 2009 at 10:41 PM.

  3. #63
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    Still, HD Fury is a lot faster than Pulses' load times... and Pulse has no adverts ...

    ...HD Fury adverts - no problem for me, seriously... and I work in an advertising infested environment - Publishing, Lord!

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    Regarding my earlier post:

    I have a theory (actually 3) which may explain why I didn't get any adverts this evening. I'm probably completely off-base with all of them but we shall see.

    I will do some research and get back to you, whoever you is/are

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    I'm gonna say something weird... I like the adverts! (oopsie)

    OK - this requires an explanation... I'm used to pulses long load times, they helped me to prepare - get my mind in the zone, the right frame of mind to get rocking in online races...

    skip forward to HD Fury, Load times are short - even with the adverts, and I feel like the game started too quick and I wasn't adequately prepared - so - nervous, I start the race and ping pong all over the place, cursing HD Fury's relatively short load times... eek...

    ... OK, the Lynch mob is coming, and I'm leaving... like NOW!

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    ACE-FLO, it's possible the ads are less annoying where you live.

    The first moments in which I saw the PixelJunk Monsters ad, I actually felt it was a little refreshing to see something different from the sideshift and barrel roll tips, but those moments were short-lived. I realized that I'd rather be bored during those 10 seconds than annoyed and offended.

    Since all I see now is the Fat Princess ad, I wonder if PixelJunk pulled their ad because they knew it was being associated with so much negativity.

    Either way, I have to think that the makers of Fat Princess are immune to that sort of thing. Their whole game is based around pointing and laughing at obese women locked in dungeons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ACE-FLO View Post
    I'm used to pulses long load times, they helped me to prepare - get my mind in the zone, the right frame of mind to get rocking in online races...

    skip forward to HD Fury, Load times are short - even with the adverts, and I feel like the game started too quick and I wasn't adequately prepared - so - nervous, I start the race and ping pong all over the place, cursing HD Fury's relatively short load times... eek...
    I second you on that. I need too, to have a little minute to relieve stress after being quaked, hit by canon-rockets-missiles-mines-bombs... and pushed out of track ! i'm often still upset when the tournament restarts and when i have to go back and swim with sharks

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    8 D Good one Ace!
    Oddly enough, "customizable delay between races" was a feature suggested at the last Wipeout gathering I held!

    Quote Originally Posted by YouAreFubar View Post
    Whats the problem with just changing a few of the in-game billboards to something they are advertising like in WipEout of old. This is seriously putting me off playing the game at the moment.
    Well, I can answer you that one at least.
    You see, what they've done (adding ads to the loading screen) is just what they could hack in sideways. This "in-game advertising initiative" is a new department in Sony (or something like that, it's been a week since I read that article), and they've just gone to whoever's in charge of HD and gotten them to shove the ads into the game in the fastest/cheapest way possible. We can see this since every time it's been done so far it's been a blight upon the product.
    Integrating the ads into rotating trackside billboards would be an excellent implementation, I don't think anyone would complain about that. But the good solution takes more time and effort than the cheap and fast and ugly hack. And it would likely have to have been part of the initial design. They were way past release when it was desired as an "added feature", it's extremely difficult (if not entirely impossible) to make big changes like that at this point in the SDLC.
    Primary problem: This new "in-game ad group" isn't interested in "good" or "value", it's only interested in quick cash.


  9. #69
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    there is a little comfort in the knowledge that if ads are to stay, they will only become more frequent and diverse, and the same ads will appear less frequently ... now if you think about it, that might be a little more tolerable than seeing fat princess or whoever she was, over and over... not ideal for those of you who liked life on the servers before the ads, granted! But, it is a start... my o.p

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    That has not actually been the trend, Ace. It's only one ad now, whereas before it was too. Hopefully that means it will be zero eventually, but I would not be surprised if this ad and only this ad played for the next three months, and then perhaps with one and only one other ad for the next year.

    I tried something close to what yeldar said, doing a few speed lap sessions offline, but the second I went online to do a multiplayer race, Fat Princess again.

    I'm going to try to reinstall it without going online, as per ProblemSolver's method. If it's nice enough, and I expect it to be, you guys might not see me connected to PSN for a while.
    Last edited by Koleax; 10th November 2009 at 03:57 AM.

  11. #71
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    @Koleax: But don't forget to logout each time you start WipEout HD after you
    have installed it the way I wrote, otherwise you have to go through the whole
    procedure again.

  12. #72
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    Integrating the ads into rotating trackside billboards would be an excellent implementation, I don't think anyone would complain about that.
    I'd complain about it. The new Wipeout games are set in the year 2207, and having advertisements for early 21st century media (the majority of which -- even if they're enjoyable noe -- will be mostly forgotten in a decade) are just as jarring and mood-breaking as playing a modern-day Formula 1 racer and seeing things like this:

    http://images.google.com/images?q=19...advertisements

    Or are we supposed to imagine that 200 years from now, there's a big retro fad going where people are advertising their products using 200-year-old images?

  13. #73
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    I dont care much for the adverts BUT I dont have much of a problem with Sony or SL using them to generate revenue. The discussion of putting adverts in games has being going on for a while. Simply because you pay for game doesn't mean you have a right to not see commercials. I dont recall any explicit declaration when I purchased the game that it would not contain commercials. They appeared to fix the delay problem with the ads and the ads themselves dont take much longer than the regular load screen now. So its not even a wasted of time at this point.

    Given that most games are online multiplayer games these days, the need to advertise is important for the maintenance of the servers. Also from a product standpoint the business model has to change. Online play extends the life of many games. This means there is a need to extract revenue from the usage as well as the orignal content. I paid half for WipeOut HD than I did for most of my other PS3 games and I play it much more often.

    advertising and entertainment go hand in hand. when you realized that 200 million game consoles are out there it becomes obvious that advertising is inevitable.

    That said ... I'm sick of the Fat Princess ad ... please give me something else. How about some variety.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koleax View Post
    That has not actually been the trend, Ace. It's only one ad now, whereas before it was too. Hopefully that means it will be zero eventually...
    In general, it is how advertising works. My guess is that the ads are bought by an agency, who will continue to purchase ads, as long as they hold the budget... I saw 2 different ads last night... repeated... but in January, I can foresee a lot more ads in circulation!

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    I'd rather pay for additional service than have ads. ****, make WOHD a service where you must purchase the game again after a year to resume multiplayer gameplay.

    With what im seeing, if the ads increase good for Sony, how much revnue will the remaining 5 players generate? At the rate of decline ive seen since 2.10 they'd be lucky to have 5 players come Feburary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IH8YOU View Post
    With what im seeing, if the ads increase good for Sony, how much revnue will the remaining 5 players generate? At the rate of decline ive seen since 2.10 they'd be lucky to have 5 players come Feburary.
    Ah. But then there will be no one left who will buy the game, so therefore it isn't worth the cost to improve the game until it isn't broken again. Such as, rolling it back to the previous version.

    There's a marketing guy with this argument in the SCEE hierarchy somewhere, trust me. Most likely at the top.

  17. #77
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    I'm baffled. They surely want people to buy it? Fixing it now will bring a lot of people back, who were previously telling friends how great it is. People will not be put off by ads and will be more likely to buy it. The more that buy it, the more that will buy DLC in the future. No-one playing it means no revenue from future DLC. Now that I think about it, does this mean no more DLC? It could do. Perhaps they've decided that and therefore this is a last ditch effort to make money from the game. "Don't worry about existing customers, we have their cash now. Don't expressly warn new customers. They can by the game without even knowing the ads are there. We'll still get their money. It's win-win." Someone probably already mentioned that somewhere, and I'm speculating wildly, so I'll stop.

  18. #78
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    2 days without ads now...was it something I said?

    not complaining though

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    Have you figured out why yet? I'm sure we all want to know. If you even have clues it could be good for people to try it themselves.

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    @yeldar2097: Just play offline, load 10 races, and tell me if they don't appear
    there either. ASAP!

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