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Thread: Excuses for losing & 1st place "bonuses"

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connavar View Post
    for example I'm 100% sure you have a lot more chance to
    get a shield after you hear "Quake", than any other item.
    I can't deny that I do remember many occasions where I would get a shield just after hearing quake. It's always just too late though, i.e. just after I get hit, then I get the shield. But I'm not sure if it's more likely or more memorable.

  2. #22
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    Luck + Psychologic Effect.

    As someone who's spent a great deal of time online side shifting between weapon pads, items you get are perfectly random while following the probability laws coded into the game (Quake is rarer than Rockets for example.)

    What this whole discussion is based on is this: "I remember that..."
    Yes, you remember because this is a particularly striking moment that you have noted many times during the many hours you have played the game.
    Allow me to explain: you noted many times that while in first place, you get a lot of turbos. Why do you note that? Because turbos are essential in gaining an increased lead, so each turbo you pick up you make a mental note of. Those you get while in fourth place you do not, because they are used for catch up, and you're still focused on catching up more than timing your turbo correctly for an eventual shortcut.
    I don't remember what weapons I pick up in eight place, but I do for when I am in first place. It's natural, but I am fairly certain that if we were to examine all instants of a race for each participant, we would find that weapon distribution is totally random.

  3. #23
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    yeldar2097 is offline WipEout HD Cup - Quarter Finalist Veteran Pilot
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    I'm with DD777. If I watch the mp vids that I made pre-fury, and the ones that I have made post-fury, I can see that turbo disptribution is the same. You can have a race where you are in front and you get 8 turbos or 0 turbos or something in between. Same with other weapons. Sometimes you will get pretty much nothing but shields/mines/whatever when in first/last place but these weapon spam races aren't more likely with any single weapon i don't think...we all know that sometimes there are races where there are about 400 quakes. and 'cambodia' exists for a reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Connavar View Post
    those times are not possible without many turbos
    So yeah 1 race sure, but 2-3-4 etc races like this ... this wasn't possible in
    the past.
    it happens. sometimes you are on a good run and nobody shoots you for a few races, we all get that sometimes. it's luck of the draw really.
    except for certain tracks where the MP time nearly matches the TT WR, even if you only get 2-3 boosts it's not that hard to get a top 10 time -If you look at the Avalon records, you can see that most of the no weps records are only a few secs slower (if that) than the official mp records. If you throw in a boost or two + as many BRs as you want you can see that getting close to the WR shouldn't be that hard.

    /two cents

  4. #24
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    I know about psychology factor, however I still disagree with you DD777,
    the game very often gives you a shield after you hear the quake, and yes it's
    often too late (but you still get a useless shield). How many times does it give
    you a gun or rockets instead? It's not just that I remember, it's so striking that
    now whenever I hear a quake, if a pad is nearby, I know I have a good chance
    to shield me from it.

    About turbos, it looks like everyone just gets more turbos than usual, however
    I can't prove it yet, I guess one way to show it would be to analyze videos
    from before and from now, and do some stats.

    I think we should ask some top wise players like Wotan and ProblemSolver what
    they think about it.

  5. #25
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    I can try do some stats if you want, i have about 150 videos pre-fury and 50<x<75 videos post-fury
    is that enough for a start do you reckon?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeldar2097
    even if you only get 2-3 boosts it's not that hard to get a top 10 time -If you look at the Avalon records, you can see that most of the no weps records are only a few secs slower (if that) than the official mp records. If you throw in a boost or two + as many BRs as you want you can see that getting close to the WR shouldn't be that hard.
    /two cents
    I know that 2-3 turbos can make you enter the top 10 if the race is perfect,
    which is very possible with his skills (reach-big7), however the times were
    about those: 2.01.xx on chenghou (finished this one at 2.02 behind him with
    several turbos too), then 1.42.xx on sol2, then a 1.43.xx or 1.44.xx on sol2R,
    those 3 races in a row with 2 others with equally good time that I forgot.

    All this in a row, sure maybe was luck, but to see 3-4 WR like times in a row
    ... raised a bit my suspicions, but I was still doubting at this time, then I
    talked to other people (without mentioning anything), and they also told me
    about their own suspicions (about turbos), which confirmed mine ...

    Chenghou ok you can BR a lot but sol2 - sol2R, I'm sure you need a lot of
    turbos, there aren't so many spots where you can BR, however a boost
    directly gives you -1 second.

    Also I remember I quaked him on chenghou, I remember because I was like
    "damn, maybe he could have gone under 2.00.00"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeldar2097 View Post
    even if you only get 2-3 boosts it's not that hard to get a top 10 time
    Not the way most of us play

    I personally don't believe you get any different weapons dependent on where you at in the pack. I've had 6 boosts at the back and front of a race. On hearing 'Quake' I usually make a dash for a weapon pad only to find that it's mines or bombs, if I was getting shields it would be great. I was in a race a while ago at the front and got hit by 4 quakes, not once did I get a shield before I got hit, if it were a common thing surely I would of received at least one.

    Reachbig is one of a handful of players who can put WR times in all the time, It may seem like they are getting lots of boosts but I think their line is so good that they can post quicker times than the majority here without a lot of help from favorable weapons.

  8. #28
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    @ Connavar
    Not strictly true about sol2 rev, the entire first half ot the lap is so dependant on good racing lines, not saying turbos dont help, but my top 10 time from what i rember used only 3. Plus Luxoflux's TT WR is almost 2 seconds faster than mine despite my 5 perfect laps.

    Also 2.01 on CP is also possible with maybe as little as 2 boosts. He could have also made your quake redundant by boosting on impact.

    As for the discussion on shields, funny how experiences differ - i keep my shields for a corner or 2 so often have one BEFORE the inevitable "quake" or "missile" warning. Is the game anticipating a quake before its even been picked up? Or just good tactical racing?
    Last edited by OBH; 25th October 2009 at 03:36 PM.

  9. #29
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    The question is not about his skill, he's probably the best player at the moment,
    it's about timing ... don't you think it's a bit strange that people have been
    fighting againt world records for 10 months, barely approaching or beating them,
    and now that Fury's out, suddently everyone is beating them easily?
    Whilst at the same time, several top players are noticing how easier it is to get
    a better time just because they seem to be getting more turbos?
    And don't tell me it's because of the Fury ships please
    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by osama bin haydn View Post
    ... Also 2.01 on CP is also possible with maybe as little as 2 boosts. He could have also made your quake redundant by boosting on impact.
    No, because I also did a nice race, and after I quaked him, I caught up, was
    just behind him, so he clearly lost time, and then a bit later he went away.
    Last edited by Task; 25th October 2009 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connavar View Post
    And don't tell me it's because of the Fury ships please
    why not? harimau furys taking over many top 10 places.

    the only long standing mp record i remember was my ap rev for over 6 months (no doubt theres been more ), since then the early boost-br tactic has been discovered and it was beaten. the same applies to ap, vk, vk rev, cp, cp rev, ub rev, probably many more tracks too. there are more brs now that most ship shields can handle. hitting them all lap after lap is a real challenge.

    add to the mix the new fury ship improved stats, and id say yes i do believe they are a factor.
    Last edited by OBH; 25th October 2009 at 03:48 PM.

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