Excuses for losing & 1st place "bonuses"

[SaturnReturn]

for example I'm 100% sure you have a lot more chance to
get a shield after you hear "Quake", than any other item.

I can't deny that I do remember many occasions where I would get a shield just after hearing quake. It's always just too late though, i.e. just after I get hit, then I get the shield. But I'm not sure if it's more likely or more memorable.

[Darkdrium777]

Luck + Psychologic Effect.

As someone who's spent a great deal of time online side shifting between weapon pads, items you get are perfectly random while following the probability laws coded into the game (Quake is rarer than Rockets for example.)

What this whole discussion is based on is this: "I remember that..."
Yes, you remember because this is a particularly striking moment that you have noted many times during the many hours you have played the game.
Allow me to explain: you noted many times that while in first place, you get a lot of turbos. Why do you note that? Because turbos are essential in gaining an increased lead, so each turbo you pick up you make a mental note of. Those you get while in fourth place you do not, because they are used for catch up, and you're still focused on catching up more than timing your turbo correctly for an eventual shortcut.
I don't remember what weapons I pick up in eight place, but I do for when I am in first place. It's natural, but I am fairly certain that if we were to examine all instants of a race for each participant, we would find that weapon distribution is totally random.

[yeldar2097]

I'm with DD777. If I watch the mp vids that I made pre-fury, and the ones that I have made post-fury, I can see that turbo disptribution is the same. You can have a race where you are in front and you get 8 turbos or 0 turbos or something in between. Same with other weapons. Sometimes you will get pretty much nothing but shields/mines/whatever when in first/last place but these weapon spam races aren't more likely with any single weapon i don't think...we all know that sometimes there are races where there are about 400 quakes. and 'cambodia' exists for a reason

those times are not possible without many turbos
So yeah 1 race sure, but 2-3-4 etc races like this ... this wasn't possible in
the past.

it happens. sometimes you are on a good run and nobody shoots you for a few races, we all get that sometimes. it's luck of the draw really.
except for certain tracks where the MP time nearly matches the TT WR, even if you only get 2-3 boosts it's not that hard to get a top 10 time -If you look at the Avalon records, you can see that most of the no weps records are only a few secs slower (if that) than the official mp records. If you throw in a boost or two + as many BRs as you want you can see that getting close to the WR shouldn't be that hard.

/two cents

[Connavar]

I know about psychology factor, however I still disagree with you DD777,
the game very often gives you a shield after you hear the quake, and yes it's
often too late (but you still get a useless shield). How many times does it give
you a gun or rockets instead? It's not just that I remember, it's so striking that
now whenever I hear a quake, if a pad is nearby, I know I have a good chance
to shield me from it.

About turbos, it looks like everyone just gets more turbos than usual, however
I can't prove it yet, I guess one way to show it would be to analyze videos
from before and from now, and do some stats.

I think we should ask some top wise players like Wotan and ProblemSolver what
they think about it.

[yeldar2097]

I can try do some stats if you want, i have about 150 videos pre-fury and 50<x<75 videos post-fury
is that enough for a start do you reckon?

[Connavar]

even if you only get 2-3 boosts it's not that hard to get a top 10 time -If you look at the Avalon records, you can see that most of the no weps records are only a few secs slower (if that) than the official mp records. If you throw in a boost or two + as many BRs as you want you can see that getting close to the WR shouldn't be that hard.
/two cents

I know that 2-3 turbos can make you enter the top 10 if the race is perfect,
which is very possible with his skills (reach-big7), however the times were
about those: 2.01.xx on chenghou (finished this one at 2.02 behind him with
several turbos too), then 1.42.xx on sol2, then a 1.43.xx or 1.44.xx on sol2R,
those 3 races in a row with 2 others with equally good time that I forgot.

All this in a row, sure maybe was luck, but to see 3-4 WR like times in a row
... raised a bit my suspicions, but I was still doubting at this time, then I
talked to other people (without mentioning anything), and they also told me
about their own suspicions (about turbos), which confirmed mine ...

Chenghou ok you can BR a lot but sol2 - sol2R, I'm sure you need a lot of
turbos, there aren't so many spots where you can BR, however a boost
directly gives you -1 second.

Also I remember I quaked him on chenghou, I remember because I was like
"damn, maybe he could have gone under 2.00.00"

[KGB]

even if you only get 2-3 boosts it's not that hard to get a top 10 time

Not the way most of us play

I personally don't believe you get any different weapons dependent on where you at in the pack. I've had 6 boosts at the back and front of a race. On hearing 'Quake' I usually make a dash for a weapon pad only to find that it's mines or bombs, if I was getting shields it would be great. I was in a race a while ago at the front and got hit by 4 quakes, not once did I get a shield before I got hit, if it were a common thing surely I would of received at least one.

Reachbig is one of a handful of players who can put WR times in all the time, It may seem like they are getting lots of boosts but I think their line is so good that they can post quicker times than the majority here without a lot of help from favorable weapons.

[OBH]

@ Connavar
Not strictly true about sol2 rev, the entire first half ot the lap is so dependant on good racing lines, not saying turbos dont help, but my top 10 time from what i rember used only 3. Plus Luxoflux's TT WR is almost 2 seconds faster than mine despite my 5 perfect laps.

Also 2.01 on CP is also possible with maybe as little as 2 boosts. He could have also made your quake redundant by boosting on impact.

As for the discussion on shields, funny how experiences differ - i keep my shields for a corner or 2 so often have one BEFORE the inevitable "quake" or "missile" warning. Is the game anticipating a quake before its even been picked up? Or just good tactical racing?

[Connavar]

The question is not about his skill, he's probably the best player at the moment,
it's about timing ... don't you think it's a bit strange that people have been
fighting againt world records for 10 months, barely approaching or beating them,
and now that Fury's out, suddently everyone is beating them easily?
Whilst at the same time, several top players are noticing how easier it is to get
a better time just because they seem to be getting more turbos?
And don't tell me it's because of the Fury ships please
---

... Also 2.01 on CP is also possible with maybe as little as 2 boosts. He could have also made your quake redundant by boosting on impact.

No, because I also did a nice race, and after I quaked him, I caught up, was
just behind him, so he clearly lost time, and then a bit later he went away.

[OBH]

And don't tell me it's because of the Fury ships please

why not? harimau furys taking over many top 10 places.

the only long standing mp record i remember was my ap rev for over 6 months (no doubt theres been more ), since then the early boost-br tactic has been discovered and it was beaten. the same applies to ap, vk, vk rev, cp, cp rev, ub rev, probably many more tracks too. there are more brs now that most ship shields can handle. hitting them all lap after lap is a real challenge.

add to the mix the new fury ship improved stats, and id say yes i do believe they are a factor.

[Connavar]

Well in my previous example, rb7 did everything with AG-systems from HD
I think people are picking Harimau+ or other just because the stats look better,
but in reality, it doesn't do that much difference, let's say if everything else
remains the same (piloting skills, BR ability, items luck) => 0.30 sec at best.

[OBH]

wow we have some real differences in opinon i think harimau+ is far, far better than its predecessor, the extra thrust is massively helpful. a craft doesnt go from barely scrapping top 10 times to a firm contender soley due to lucky items.

im not saying hd crafts dont cut it, the hd ags was a world beater before fury, and wont just drop off its perch. but if reach-big7 hasnt bothered with fury crafts its no wonder hes still one of the best going.

i just dont see this conspiracy theory about extra boosts in 1st as any different to how it was in HD, ive spent time out in front, sometimes 6 boosts a race, sometimes not 1 for 6 races.

[Connavar]

I wasn't comparing Harimau vs Harimau+!
I was talking about Fury ships in general, what I meant, I thought was obvious,
was: take your favorite HD ship and race, now take your favorite Fury ship
(note when I say favorite, I mean: take the one allowing you to do the fastest
times, because some people liked Harimau before just for the looks), and now
do the exact same race under the exact same conditions, normally you'll go
0.05 sec faster at best, every lap, I mean I see it when I do speed laps even.

[OBH]

i know you werent comparing harimau specifically was just saying its an example where, at least in my opinion, of one fury ship being far better than its HD counterpart. It just is.

though we're veering off topic now xD

[Amorbis]

Based on the videos I took almost one year ago of HD 1.10 (or whatever the number was in December) the number of boosts is just as evenly distributed today as it was back then. At least that's how it feels for me.

[Connavar]

Yeah, without you noticing, you agreed that some Fury ships are better while
some are worse, hence compensating and ruling the Fury ships "bonus" out of
the equation

To be honest, I don't even know why you made such a thread to begin with,
without any concrete facts/proof, you're not going to change ppl minds, I feel,
personally, that there is a noticeable increase of turbos, on average, per race,
now you might beg to differ, but other players have noticed it too, that's why
I feel more confident about it.

However we can agree that at some time, the online game was sooo bad that
it was near impossible doing perfect races, it was when the 1.3 patch was out,
since BRs were not working half of the time, and there were freezings too,
so now that everything has been fixed, it's now possible to do clean races.
---

Based on the videos I took almost one year ago of HD 1.10 (or whatever the number was in December) the number of boosts is just as evenly distributed today as it was back then. At least that's how it feels for me.

Ok thanks, I don't even have the motivation nor the time to do it, but if
someone could do stats on all the multiplayer videos released so far, we would
have a clearer picture of what's going on, maybe I'm just imagining things,
and maybe not

[OBH]

i agreed without noticing? no need to put words in my mouth my friend

and as you mentioned it, im not trying to change minds, i was interested in peoples opinions whos matter...... all of yours

if your more confident in your opunion, excellent!! but so am i as only kyonshi & blackwiggle agree with you compared to amorbis, yeldar, saturn, d7, kgb, kaori, leungbok, koleax & asayyeah all see no difference.

[oolproo]

my two cents: don't know if others sense this, but if someone fires from behind, usually a missile, then, as I hit a weapon pad, and if I activate the weapon before knowing what it is, I seem with unusual regularity to be awarded a shield.

one sentence, two cents....

[DISRUPTOR]

I also find that too. Seems more than coincidence.

[Connavar]

osama: there are no more vista pads, not for me anyway, so this automatically
means more items and more turbos, agreed?

Anyway this is irrelevant, who really cares about multiplayer times anyway?
You need to be good + be super lucky, to score a great time;

I value TT records 100x more than MP records, because they only involve skill,
and if someone is #1 it's because he played better, not because he received
an extra turbo.

I'm going to leave the thread now, I didn't want to enter it but you had
mentioned my name + implied that I was a bad loser, while all I said was that it
was easier to score fast times than in the past (more turbos), and had nothing
to do with losing a race or not.