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Thread: Something about Wipeout HD / fury doesn't feel.. well right!

  1. #1
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    Default Something about Wipeout HD / fury doesn't feel.. well right!

    Hi everyone! First post so sorry its not all that positive.
    I absolutely loved the first three editions of the series. For me, it was all about the speed, the fringe techno and the fun of drifting around corners.

    Why has drifting disappeared from wipeout? HD and fury simply don't have a fun flight model. The physics feel sterile - its no longer like you are floating in a real medium like air. Its more like skating on smooth ice or something. The craft more or less go where you point them end of story. There is no satisfying airbrake whooosh and slide, no blurr of corner before the straightaway appears in front of you. No feeling of slowing down something moving through air at insane speeds..

    I had a go with 2097 again the other day and I was horrified about how much more fun that game is. By comparison HD just feels like a PS3 tech demo to me.

    Whats more I can't believe the rave reviews HD and fury are getting considering this. Seriously does no one else agree? Am I the only bitter old man remenissing of the old days?!

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    Well... I'll put WipEout HD/Fury in perspective to the earlier console version, Fusion. In Fusion, people have been experiencing the most crappy A-G effect ever; the ships seemed to be glued to the track or on rails, and the bumpy effect and floating feeling was totally absent. Now in HD/Fury, we got back to these wonderful and realistic physics.

    It may not be drifting and sliding the way you picture it, still there's a slight effect of drifting, but not that much. I think its because its not a rally racing game, and i see it has part some non-official aspect of the WipEout storyline; its now the 23rd century and, surely in such far time in the future, aerodynamics, mass and velocity handling technologies and engineering should have improved a lot more, making drifting less more influencing piloting and allowing a sharper cornering. Even AG cells could have been improved that much to correct erratic craft behavior.

    I don't understand why you think the game shouldn't deserve the critical acclaim it got because there's no drifting effect... Come on, you're being way too hard for nothing. And the speed effect at Phantom is perfectly put the way it is, no need to improve this feature imho.

    On a personal note, i dont think drifting is essential to nowadays WipEout titles. If there would be a real need of this feature, it should only affect the heavy-weight ships like Auricom, Triakis, Piranha, Icaras, Goteki 45, etc. Otherwise, the game is fine by me. Maybe some turbulences tailing the ships would look cool though
    Last edited by Kyonshi; 21st September 2009 at 05:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carrtak View Post
    Seriously does no one else agree? Am I the only bitter old man remenissing of the old days?!
    Probably not the only one, nope.

    BTW, welcome to the WZ.

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    hi there.

    saying it doesn't feel right is interesting. i think it feels 'different'. every game in this now pretty impressively large series feels different. And while i would class myself as an old timer...at least in wipeout terms, i do like HD. (Just not as much as 2097, 3:SE or Pure) and i totally see where you're coming from with the comments on the handling.

    There is definitely a divide as to those that really love HD and those that like it, but would like some of the things from past games back.

    we''ll have to see where the series goes next...

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    The game is different but still excellent.
    If this drift effect was the only criteria for the reviews then yes it would get a lower score than Big Rigs Over the Road Racing on GameSpot, fortunately it isn't and the game excels in graphics, sounds, gameplay, features and competitive price. You are being very harsh here suggesting that the game doesn't deserve the reviews it has because it is different from 2097/XL. If you want to play that type of game, the choice is yours as it is available to you to play WipEout 2097/XL.

    Now on the other hand I will agree with the fact that it was one of the best feelings you could experience in the game, but it is not entirely what made it either.

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    Honestly I'm just trying to put into words why I don't find HD/fury as satisfying or fun as the older games... whilst this may just be my opinion, I feel that some things are just fun plain and simple and I think wipeout has lost some thing 'organic' in it's latest incarnation... I'm surprised how disappointed I am thats all!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Probably not the only one, nope.

    BTW, welcome to the WZ.
    Thanks for the welcome!

    I played the original wipeout in the Ministry of Sound in London having blagged my way in at the age of 16 with a fake ID and a couple of my sisters girlfriends!! Right place, right age I guess but it burned it way onto my gaming conscience like a tatoo. That week I stumped up the 300 pounds for the PS1.

    Sometimes simple games (remember when it was just about making three corners in a row??) with great physics and 'feel' are absolutely captivating.

    2097 was, impossibly, a better game still and I am desperate to get a PS3 version made that has no draw distance!

    I wasn't really a big fan of the 'washed out' look of wip3out but it was still great.

    Fusion was a travesty and to be honest I only feel like HD and Fury look good by comparison with fury.. I urge all those who haven't tried the orginal wipeout to forgive the graphics and have a go.. it's wholely different and not necessarily in a bad way.

    BTW is there any way to play 2097 on the ps3?
    Last edited by Lance; 21st September 2009 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Redundant quotation eliminated. Merged two consecutive posts by same person. Please read the WZ guidelines.

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    I totally agree with your post, carrtak. I don`t find it any easier than you do to put the feeling into words. I have heard Wipeout HD described as a "twitch racer" and think that is possibly an apt description. There is no sense of these ships being objects flying in air - they feel like graphics on a scrolling but pretty background which is what they are. There`s no illusion in the handling that they are any more than that. Unlike in original Wipeout and in 2097, ships in Wipeout HD don`t have a sense of weight to distinguish their handling character, they just have wider or tighter turning circles and have more or less sensitive steering. I tried to love this game, but I don`t and decided I won`t kid myself any more. Even Wipeout Pure, which I played again lately, gives you a better sense of flying a ship instead of manipulating graphics. The darn thing is impossible to describe, but those who also feel what is missing know what I mean, I think.

    The old (first 3) games are about finding racing lines for a ship that drifts and floats; HD (and Pulse) are all about fast fingers and are good fast games but are soul less in comparison. "Tech demo" is perhaps a little harsh, but there is an element of truth to it. I think if I said HD`s handling is like a mobile phone game compared to the halcyon days of the first 3 games it would also be a touch harsh, but with an element of truth I think.

    I don`t want to sound too harsh either, and good luck to all who love the game, but if this was the first Wipeout game I ever played then I would not be in love with the series at all. I would think it was a game that was okay for a bit, but which didn`t rock my world. Maybe this is a bit of a rant, but this is "Wipeout Zone" and so I can say this here The thing that made Wipeout better and more special than F Zero doesn`t exist any more for me. So nobody should flame me for my views.

    Even the soundtrack music in HD is harsh and abrasive, the game is bang bang crash spin boost and a noise all round - not poetry in motion any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by carrtak View Post
    Am I the only bitter old man remenissing of the old days?!
    No you are not at all, but I guess you summed up what is going on in that line

    Welcome to Wipeout Zone by the way
    Last edited by lunar; 21st September 2009 at 06:50 PM.

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    welcome mate

    i can appreciate people who prefer the old games. at first i thought "my god this isnt what i was expecting!" but give it a while, watch some videos, try out some shortcuts etc, and hopefully you'll agree that although vastly different, its well worth its place in the series

    as times gone on its also becoming my favourite in the series. though its multiplayer aspect is the main reason for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lunar View Post
    I totally agree with your post, carrtak.
    You totally agree with:
    Quote Originally Posted by carrtak View Post
    Whats more I can't believe the rave reviews HD and fury are getting considering this. Seriously does no one else agree?
    ? You agree that WipEout HD doesn't deserve an 80/100 Metascore?

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    Leaving aside the metascore, a point which you added, Xavier, I agreed with what carrtak actually wrote as a general statement. I go along with the general idea that while the graphics of HD are applauded I feel the gameplay has slipped since the old days. We could go into specifics of reviews which would be changing the point, but generally I agree with him that as a game HD is over-rated in some quarters. I do think it`s very good and I`m glad it is a success, but that is my opinion of the quality of the game

    As for the metascore, well, all games are over-rated these days I think. At 80 it`s probably about as good as other 80s and better than many 80s so it deserves that, but carrtak did not mention the metascore anyway

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    Good points Lunar.

    with regards to the music, i do like some of the HD/Fury music, but i can solve some issues right now: bring back Cold Storage!!! Tim is still making good tracks, and should definitely be involved with the music in any future wipeout titles imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by carrtak View Post
    BTW is there any way to play 2097 on the ps3?
    all ps3's play ps1 games, so thats one way, but as for it been on the ps store, it's not currently. Ages ago it was actually been advertised as been available in leaflets coming with ps3 games (uncharted for example) but nothing ever came of it, rumours pop up every now and then of a release....but no one in the know ever comments on them...so we are none the wiser sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lunar View Post
    I totally agree with your post, carrtak. I don`t find it any easier than you do to put the feeling into words. ~~snip~~

    No you are not at all, but I guess you summed up what is going on in that line

    Welcome to Wipeout Zone by the way
    I'm not sure why, but I feel better now knowing I'm not the only one!! I think I'll enjoy hd and fury better for what they are now! Oh and the new (fusion hd fury) music is too slow - it should be 10x as many beats per minute.. what next, hip hop in wipeout??!! At least you can put your own music in!

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Lance; 21st September 2009 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Reduced quotation.

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    all i can say is ...yes their is no drifting anymore and old wipeout vs new wipeout play completly different..like ridge race vs gran turismo..

    neither are the better its all down to personal choice or both.I love drifting but now im into precision steering.

    team liverpoll just had to make a choice and decided a non driffting game would be more polpular than a driffting game.were they right ...i do not know..?

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    Dude, there's no need to quote the entire post. Please read the rules, they are different than on other forums.

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    Thank you so much for straightening me out

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    I odn't know, I play a lot of videogames and afaic if theres any PS3 game that deserves a metascore of 80 or better its Wipeout HD. Its a freakin phenomenal videogame - "drifting" or not...

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    Dont worry..no one was as bad as me when i started at site for dumb posting.

    ..i started self love thread just cos i got to 8th event on wipeout HD.WWWOOOWWWW.

    i started a thread called "i dont understand" which was about ship stats and many more crap threads so crap i forgot what they were.Then one day i found this really boring thread called forum guidelines and my eyes were opened

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    Hi carrtak, m8,

    you are not alone... so many people will never see/feel the
    moody rain of Gare'd Europe and the perfect handling
    of the original Piranha...

    gimme 2097 on PS3 with HD graphics and multiplayer
    and i will not touch any DS3 anymore, because i've got
    some serious NegCon here...

    Since this will not happen, try WO HD online. Some
    real fine people out there...

    cya, brummpahh

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    Quote Originally Posted by lunar View Post
    [...] Unlike in original Wipeout and in 2097, ships in Wipeout HD don`t have a sense of weight to distinguish their handling character, they just have wider or tighter turning circles and have more or less sensitive steering. [...] The old (first 3) games are about finding racing lines for a ship that drifts and floats; HD (and Pulse) are all about fast fingers and are good fast games but are soul less in comparison.[...]
    Fully agree. Even though I enjoy WOHD, it's not what WO used to be. We had the discussion about the physics since WOF now and in the end it turns out that the old handling is just not suitable for the mass market. Which is a shame, really.
    And concerning the graphics: They are top notch - but the style is not my thing. Most tracks are just too colorful and flashy, the dark, urban, realistic mood is lost (and even Fusion did a good job here). And I wish the designers would have gone for less complex structures but more objects instead. Go downhill at Metropia and look left and right and you will see nothing but a simple bitmap as the city's bottom and no more buildings less than 200m away. There is no sense of space for at least 1/2 of the tracks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sausehuhn View Post
    ... in the end it turns out that the old handling is just not suitable for the mass market. Which is a shame, really...
    This is what I came to post.

    The slip/slide feel of the older games (even Pure to some extent) really puts people off, in my experience. On a number of occasions I have seen hardcore gamers-- posting on other forums-- say that the early Wipeout game are "unplay-able" or "have aged poorly" due to handling

    Personally I don't mind the handling of WOHD and Pulse-- but I do really enjoy the feel of the older games as well.

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