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Thread: SL leaderboard post boost-select-boost

  1. #21
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    i havent probleme with a clean leaderboards sl without bsb..cuz im sure the ranking sl will be exactly same order

  2. #22
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    Thanks for the link, OBH. It`s a very Wipeout 2097 flying through the scenery shortcut, that one. I would imagine that SL dislike that one because you actually go through what is supposedly solid matter, and that is unrealistic and doesn`t pass QA these days.

    I agree that discussion of resets is fairly academic if the leaderboards don`t really update in the first place. Ever since Pure with its elimination bug in multiplayer race times there seem to have been nasty bugs in the game records and the way they are recorded locally and online.

  3. #23
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    havnt we bin through this before in my thread?

    i agree with pirhapac the top pilots will still be on top im just not looking forward to workin my way up from the bottom again

  4. #24
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    I would imagine that SL dislike that one because you actually go through what is supposedly solid matter, and that is unrealistic and doesn`t pass QA these days.
    They should remove the boost-br on AP Rev aswell then as you can go straight through the wall there .

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobCoxy View Post
    They should remove the boost-br on AP Rev aswell then as you can go straight through the wall there .
    Only just though mate. Have to be careful not to hit the wall and besides thats not the best place to use the boost for speed lapping/ tt, but i see your point you can go through the wall so that needs fixing too.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkdrium777 View Post
    I guess that's what you get when you used this boost reset feature in order to get faster times. It's kind of a lesson: "you shouldn't have used it."
    Some people haven't learned though and are still using it...
    IMO they should wipe the leaderboards clean of all the modes that have had glitches in them: Zone, Speed Lap and Single Race.
    Surely SR times are based solely on the luck of the weapons draw?

  7. #27
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    Just to clarify on the Zone scores

    Its Syncopia and Mallavol that don't update at all.

    I did a PB on Pro yesterday and it updated in minutes.

    at the moment I'm only playing pro and C12 of the pure4 as seriously whats the point when the leaderboards don't bother. I tried Connavar's site and updated a load of records and then when I checked they hadn't changed either and just reverted to my default score.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenPhazon View Post
    Surely SR times are based solely on the luck of the weapons draw?
    Go look at the single race leaderboards and come back again. Look at every single track. Phantom of course.
    If anything, it's much worse than the speed lap leaderboards.

    OBH: I am not aggressive, I am not damning all the people who used the BSB when it was available. I am just saying, they shouldn't have used it because it's just common sense. It's obvious that you are exploiting the boost reset to get a faster time when you do it. Does it take skill, I'd say yes, but it's not a legit technique. Again, like I've already said multiple times on this issue: I'm not attacking the people who used it (The French Fourbe are still highly skilled players that I enjoy talking/racing with), I am only talking about the technique.
    But there is a huge difference between boosting and flying in the air (Without going through walls, as that is also glitching) and doing a barrel roll, and exploiting the boost reset feature. One is a valid racing technique, the other is an exploit. So that's a huge difference. If you can't see that, and if anyone else can't, I guess that's why they are still using the boost reset exploit.

  9. #29
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    Some people believe that everything the game programming allows is legitimate. And they are correct. For themselves.

    Others believe that exploiting programming mistakes and oversights is a distortion of the game's intended nature. And they are correct. For themselves.

    And for me, too, I think. But that is only my own personal preference.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirahpac View Post
    i havent probleme with a clean leaderboards sl without bsb..cuz im sure the ranking sl will be exactly same order
    I dont doubt the order would be the same

    But take yourself for example - a keen SL enthusaist! Im guessing your not ranked no.1 on every single SL board, if theres a track you desperately want to improve upon, but you know yourself that its 100% impossible now the bsb feature has been removed, does that not annoy you....? I mean, you will never, EVER be no.1 on that track

    I think ina nutshell, i was hoping for a surge of new records when fury was released. That little bit extra speed allowing peope to push the times down that little bit more.

    If certain times cannot be improved upon, i dont know, it feels really.. hollow....

  11. #31

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    for the people that say the exploit has been taken away.

    It hasn't.

    You can still do the trick on all tracks and speeds. Granted a 'small handful' of these it is harder to do, but STILL possible.

    I have beat quite a few of my times on various speeds of speedlap on many tracks so I believe that pretty much all records are still beatable and people will still use this trick. For example the icarus fury ship got more thrust and I found I could straight away tell it was quicker than my pre-fury ghosts.

    No need to wipe speedlap times at all imo.

  12. #32
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    @ obh:the bsb is still possible EVERYWHERE ..so dont cry plz .;u just need training..and maybe some more skill..off

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunar View Post
    If you`re not going to sort the tables then why get rid of BSB in the first place? You might as well just let people carry on doing it. Just working on the game and not the tables is only half the job - the tables need to be about reflecting performances in the game you have, not a different and older version of it.
    I agree with this. Fixing the exploits without reseting the time trial leaderboards is worse than not fixing the exploits at all, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunar View Post
    Also how does a reset actually work? How do you stop old times from just being uploaded again?
    I am curious about this too. Does each record have a date-stamp associated with it, such that only records set after the leaderboard reset will be accepted? That would mean that pilots would have to redo ALL of their records. It would also suggest a possible way to cheat the system, i.e., download the original version of WOHD, play it offline and set some records, then update to the newest patch. Unless each record has a date AND a WOHD version number associated with it.

    I still think it would be better, from a competition perspective, to never issue gameplay-altering patches

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Some people believe that everything the game programming allows is legitimate. And they are correct. For themselves.

    Others believe that exploiting programming mistakes and oversights is a distortion of the game's intended nature. And they are correct. For themselves.
    I agree with Lance. This argument about using exploits/glitches has been going on for a long, long time. What really matters is that there is a mechanism to allow people to compete on a level playing field, whether that involves split third party tables or Sony issuing new patches and resetting the record boards.

    Quote Originally Posted by pirahpac View Post
    i havent probleme with a clean leaderboards sl without bsb..cuz im sure the ranking sl will be exactly same order
    I agree with this as well. As long as the playing field is more or less level, the best pilots will get the best times

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frances_Penfold View Post
    I still think it would be better, from a competition perspective, to never issue gameplay-altering patches
    The thing is, the boost reset was never supposed to be gameplay altering. It still isn't supposed to be.

  15. #35
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    I know, darkdrium, but the thing is... lots of racing games have mechanics/exploits in them that weren't meant to be there... snaking, PRB, ZZMTs, space-flight, short cuts based on jumping, short cuts based on falling through walls, etc.

    There are *always* differences of opinion about such mechanics. What seems to matter most is that people agree to a single standard to race by-- or agree to disagree and establish split tables.

    IMO what sucks about the situation with B-R-B is that Sony patched the game-- albeit imperfectly-- and then didn't reset the leaderboards. That effectively orphans EVERYBODY, people that like BRB and people that don't

    For the record-- I don't like B-R-B and don't use it. I'm mostly a Pure/Pulse player though I am just now going after the final trophies in the game.

  16. #36
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    "I know, darkdrium, but the thing is... lots of racing games have mechanics/exploits in them that weren't meant to be there... snaking, PRB, ZZMTs, space-flight, short cuts based on jumping, short cuts based on falling through walls, etc."

    Wikipedia Defines Exploit as:
    "In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, design flaw, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers."

    I don't care if it does allow you to be faster and thus the competitive spirit in all of us should embrace it, it is still an exploit and should not be used in any way shape or form. There is no reasonable rebuttal to this argument to give BSB in any of its forms legitimacy.

    Shortcuts are not the same as glitches. They are perfectly legal if you can perform them using what is available to the player through the developers original game design. Using the nose down-nose up-turbo to gain the height at the start of a speed lap is a fine example of this case, where the player takes existing game play elements (turbo and ship pitch control) and uses them in an intuitive manner. BSB abuses a game mechanic in a way not originally thought out by the developers. The fact that SL changed it to deter this form of use clearly shows this.

    I take after Darkdrium's arguement, which is not to take a "moral high" ground but to speak with logic and reasoning with the evidence the SL does not promote the use of BSB through its attempt to change the mechanic upon the discovery of the abuse.

    Before it comes up again, my argument stands to reason that those who use BSB in the speed lap game mode are cheaters in my eyes. I back this accusation, as I do see BSB as a form of cheating. In any game I play a glitch of even the smallest scale gets a person kicked/banned from a server. Wipeout thus in my mind is set to the same standards.

    The tables should be wiped and the boost replacement feature removed outright. The only two tables that should exist are those with BRs and those without BRs.

    My 2 Cents

  17. #37
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    nice redscar ..im the first inventor of bsb and lot of boost br and tricks .;i am a cheater ..ok ..bye .." vive les frustres " ps : plz lance delete my account here..( im serious ) i go in the only place for cheaters like me : " wipeout arena "
    Last edited by pirahpac; 1st September 2009 at 11:22 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedScar View Post
    Before it comes up again, my argument stands to reason that those who use BSB in the speed lap game mode are cheaters in my eyes. I back this accusation, as I do see BSB as a form of cheating. In any game I play a glitch of even the smallest scale gets a person kicked/banned from a server. Wipeout thus in my mind is set to the same standards.
    I see where you are coming from but, to me, this is an extreme position. As Lance said earlier, many gamers feel that they should take advantage of whatever opportunities exist in a game to play it as well as they can. I wouldn't characterize these folks as cheaters-- especially when they have been very open about what they are doing and providing assistance for other players to do the same

  19. #39
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    boost -select -boost isnt cheating..anyone could do it provided they were good enough to pull it off, wasnt easy to do..
    only thing is they scrapped it 2 weeks before i began playing.now all new players will never compete against some of those times..thats an issue, that need to be sorted as its not fair.

    not fair to new players to keep those old times

    probally not fair to old players who made the times..

    but a solution should be decided and actioned by SL

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirahpac View Post
    @ obh:the bsb is still possible EVERYWHERE ..so dont cry plz .;u just need training..and maybe some more skill..off
    Mate, theres no crying going on here, its just my opinion. I've had nothing but praise you for your skill to do it, so theres no need to take the piss out of me. Was just looking for your guys opinions on the matter.

    jasmin-jade hit it spot on. Just isnt fair on the majority of players. I still feel that when theres an overwhelming majority who feel that one major game mode has been made redundant, then its at least time to take a look at it.

    At least theres still TT

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