DJ TECHNO'S CONTEST. new needed rules

[JABBERJAW]

I hope I'm not intruding on adding a couple of rules to keep this fair, but here goes

1)wipeout,wipeout xl. link mode should be allowed because all of the ships are still competeting and the other opponent can target you making it more difficult.
-----one on ones should not be allowed though
-----I am playing a friend in link mode and we are going to take his times from that if he doesn't play it again. I will not even come close to best times doing this. THis will get a few more people into the contest.

2)wipeout 64 2 player mode should not be allowed because you can allow one player to get way ahead and the computer keeps giving you turbos. Also, on single player checkpoints should be turned on.

3)wipeout 3. link mode or multiplayer should not be allowed because it is 8 ships competing against you rather than 12.

[Lance]

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i thought it was understood that the contest is strictly one player against the AI in single race mode, all ships and weapons enabled. this applies to all versions. no links, no multiplayer, no 2 player. in other words, the same rules that apply in the times tables. since the friend is there with access to the game, why can he not just play the game against the AI? why make it more difficult for him by having the conditions under which he plays be more unfavourable than those which other people deal with?
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[zargz]

I'll have 2agree with lance ..

[JABBERJAW]

I guess that's fine, but all I was saying is that it wouldn't change any results because you are still competing against the full field, and it wouldn't be easier. I thought it wouldn't matter. I already have my times for everything but wipeout1 and a few on 3 and all on fusion. I'm not sure why this wouldn't be allowed.

[DJ Techno]

Zoolander

I see nothing wrong including your friend into the tournament
Remember this is a one player, single race tournament, and your friend can play
as well, just not against another human player next to him.



I well to let everybody know this ahead of time
The next tournament will be a Teams tournament
"That is all I will tell about"

[zargz]

' I already have my times for everything but wipeout1 and a few on 3 and all on fusion'

can I just post my best times on every version without even touching the pad then? :-?

[Lance]

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'' I'm not sure why this wouldn't be allowed.''
because it changes the basic conditions if you're racing against another player. it would be, in its effect, as though most people played against the 2002 Chicago Bulls, while a few people had to play against the Lakers, and a few others only had to play the local highschool team. your times are affected by whom you play against. the object of this challenge is to standardise the conditions for as many people around the world as possible to find out who is the best at the basic game that everyone can play.

__________

'' I already have my times for everything but wipeout1 and a few on 3 and all on fusion''

''can I just post my best times on every version without even touching the pad then?''

as it states in the rules, the times must be raced for on a week by week basis. and in one version of the game per week. then those times are posted at the end of that week. no old times may be used. the racing is to be done on one and only one version of wipeout per week and done in the stated order. fresh times for a fresh challenge. once that week is over, no further times may be entered for that track. the concept of the challenge is to be an approximation in Wipeout of a Formula One season.

if we didn't do it this way, we might just as well not have an event, but simply compare times from the times tables for those that already exist. in addition to the tables from wz for wo3, there is a site somewhere that has times for 2097/xl, so we could theoretically eliminate those 2 versions of the game from active new participation. what would be the point of a challenge in that case? you don't get to race the German Gran Prix before or after the event; why should we allow such a thing for a Wipeout challenge?

as always, we rely on the personal honour of the contestants to stick to the rules. [we're not demanding that a notarised videotape be sent in each week ]
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[JABBERJAW]

I'll just redo them then, no big deal. I sent you a email concerning link mode though. Not being allowed to use old times is going to be a burden for many I think. Not being able to play too often each week. Old times should be able to be beaten anyways just by more practice. I also didn't see in the rules where you couldn't use old times, but I'll look again. I do see not being able to use old times in the sense that you don't know how you got it(maybe you used a cheat or played one-on one). I'll just replay them though, but I don't really want to spend all my time playing wipeout for a full month, I do like other games

[JABBERJAW]

just saw the rules and it was in there.

[Lance]

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it would maybe ease the burden a bit to only do one track per week, just as in F1, but although it would mean better times for any given track, the challenge would last nearly 4 months!
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[Task]

I don't see any problem playing 3 tracks a week. One track isn't quite enough, really, because after I've improved my Altima time I go try another track, then I come back to Altima and I can improve a little more, I usually play several tracks at once like that just to break the routine. I find that it really helps.
It only takes a couple of hours to get some good times, there's a whole weeks worth of time to find those hours within, I'm sure that anyone who wants to compete can.
I, personally, don't see any _serious_ problem with posting times from a 2-player game, except that it would likely lead to slower times, and I'd rather see everyone in this game doing their best. Which means 1 player mode, throw some time at it, practice till you get a good time. This is also why I prefer "make the times right now".
Of course, what I like and dislike is all beyond the point. The point here is that everyone who's competing is doing so Right Now. All around the world, wipers are playing, competing for the gold. We're playing on a fairly level field with some good restrictions, the best pilot will rise to the top. I wouldn't miss this for anything.

[Lance]

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after much further consideration of Al's suggestion about allowing 2-player or link mode, i changed my mind about that one point. here is the complete text of a new note added to the top of the instructions thread [note also the change in the Fusion tracks to be used for that portion of the challenge a few weeks from now]:

[a new note posted november 8, 2002: Al has pointed out that we may get more competitors if we allow race modes such as 2-player or multiplayer on link mode to be used for getting times for the challenge. this will be okay as long as the mode includes the computer operated ships, the AI. these must be raced against as well. this may actually slow your times as the relative unpredictability of the human opponents would be harder to deal with. but you may do it if you wish.
i must reiterate that all times posted by the challengers are to be fresh times raced for during each week of this live competition.

as the original tracks chosen for the Fusion portion of the competition were thought to be too easy, DJ Techno has chosen the following tracks to replace the original choices
katmoda 12 long track
Vohl Square long track
Temtesh Bay long track]

it's my opinion that the other modes of racing that include the AI will only hurt the times of those running them. it doesn't seem possible that times could be better than those of solo pilots racing against the AI only. just imagine what it would do to your times if you were to race against Mr. Sartwell, or at the other end of the spectrum, to race against someone less good than you, but who nevertheless gets in a lucky rocket shot at you, or a quake
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[JABBERJAW]

nice track selections

[auslander]

(not to be a spoilsport)

but 2 player team playing is unfair for one reason:

Player two doesn't have to follow the rules. They can sit back 'protecting' the first player's ship. This means the computer is unfairly disadvantaged when trying to eliminate or slow down the lead ship. Player two can hang back and take care of any computer ship just before they get close enough to Player one to let rip with a missle or rockets or whatever.

also, since player two is occupying one of the slots on the track, Player one has one less blood-thirsty computer opponent to fight. This is even more important in Fusion because the enemy ships have a full spread of weapons that can slow you down by a lot.

aus!

[Lance]

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but since we already rely on each other's honour on all other points [after all, a cheater doesn't have to do anything as elaborate as team racing, they could just post a fake time], can't we rely on their honour not to do this kind of cheating just as we do for all other kinds?
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[auslander]

however honourable they are, i still think it's taking a spot away from a bloody thirsty CPU ship and give it to one of your friends.

now, i'm a nice guy, and if me and spaceboy are both racing for the best time possible i may hesitate firing at him.

So even if i'm trying to be honourable to the rules, i'm still giving him a better chance at breaking a record than if he had another CPU after him.

I don't think you can dictate, 'if you're playing 2-Player games, you must be mean to the other Player'

aus!

[Lance]

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any thoughts from others about this point?
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[Task]

If you're anywhere near one of the AI players after the first lap of the game, you're not going to get a good time anyway. For the first lap, if there's one human racing with you rather than one AI, the human is the more difficult player, the one more likely to give you problems. We are, after all, talking about the ship in last starting position of the grid, or the second last. You know, that ship that you don't see till the lap where you pass it _again_. That ship has what effect on your times? None! Now, if it's a human instead, they're much more likely to stick with you, be nearby and in the way.
Unless there's some serious co-operation going on (I'll block the AIs, you work on going as fast as possible) then having a human instead of an AI can only be a hindrance. And, as Lance has quite correctly pointed out, anyone doing that might as well just be totally making up their times.
I'm quite positive that there's absolutely nothing to worry about here. If someone wants to handicap themselves this way, I'm not gonna say anything against it. I just hope that the 2-player gaming gets them in the mood to sit down to some serious 1-player record making instead of merely submitting their likely sub-standard times.
Now, when is someone else gonna post some times? 8 )

[xEik]

I'm not participating in the contest but wouldn't link mode make the computer AI have two enemies instead of one thus dividing its forces? I don't think they AI pilots attack each other that much. And what if lapping happens? The first pilot sweeps the way for the second one. It's up to you, though.

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

[Lance]

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if both consoles are sharing computing duties, no. wouldn't they just be transferring synchronisation data?
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