boost-select-boost, things to know about it !

[JABBERJAW]

butwould you call it cheating? since it is a sanctioned controller, and it is a button on the controller? you can see where I'm gonig with this

Just food for thought, and why some people don't like it

[leungbok]

No, not cheating ! just no interest for me (it's a personal taste) i'll not blame anyone to use it if it unfortunately happens.

[SaturnReturn]

"ps3 sanctioned controller"? What does that mean? I think I can see where you're trying to go with this, but I think using examples plucked out of fantasy is a bad way to make a point. If you consider this a parallel with the b-s-b then it seems like you're still missing a large part of the argument.

Let's just say it did exist. I think it would be cheating if someone used this and not everyone else had it. The difference between some and others would no longer solely be based on skill. If there were to be a controller that made the game considerably easier for those who purchased it, then I don't think it would ever be officially sanctioned, unless someone made a very poor decision. You'd essentially be changing the programming of the game for some, but not for others. There'd be no level playing field any longer.

[TheFrostE]

i dont mind whether people use it or not, i hav e no problems with it at all i just choose not to use it...and i have listened to LB and gave it a shot yesterday and tried it...its very difficult to do, and i wonder why my select button doesn't work alll the time when i try to cancel O_O.

i wanted to say that before i say what im going to say next in hopes that you guys who enjoy it wont flame me for no reason. but i think i would change the definition of "the trick" just to "an exploit". Its basically using a feature in the game in that mode as it was un-intended for to gain an advantage in your times....(not against other people). because as you said, everyone CAN do it so theres no unfair advantage, you just need to practice it ALOT.

that said i decided to give it up trying to use the exploit and went to anulpha forward with icaras and manage a 20:72 lap time with only boost over the start line and BRs. was very happy with the time even though i know i can improve on it.

[SaturnReturn]

I think calling it an exploit is very fair. This is what I called it at first. But people should realise that the word has both positive and negative associations.

[AG-wolf]

I think a majority of the people complaining about it are people who can't do it themselves. By no means does this make the game broken... it's not along the severity of snaking or shift boosting in F-Zero GX, or the TDD/DTD/etc and nose-grinding crap of F-Zero X (see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCXwaL3-ApQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIpZBz_cOfY ),
so I don't think it's fair to ostracize people who can do it. I think it falls along the same lines as a lot of the speed shortcut techniques in sonic games- take sonic 2 for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFA4Xn4oFo
every jump he does when coming off the downward arc of one of those hills pushes him forward faster. You can also gain mad speed if you enter a loop when you're not already going wicked fast... on a left-approach loop, if you jump from about 10 o'clock to 8 or 7 o'clock, and hold the "down" button when you land, you rocket out of the loop exit... boom, free speed.

I'd look at this barrel roll/select/boost bullsh*t like this:
It's a unique scenario which can only be recreated/executed in one single mode of the game, a mode which focuses solely on getting the fastest single LAP time.
You're not cutting out 15 seconds of a track by skipping miles of it like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdU6hZ6bxN8 <-yeah, BROKEN as F**K. (Video has good music, though. It's Dr. Stewart's theme)
You're utilizing a game-mechanic that is already accepted (barrel-rolls) to gain a portion of the speed...
And you're using a turbo to launch yourself in the air, enabling a BR... I don't think anyone will argue with that, as I'm sure we've all done it on the start/finish approach in UberMall FWD.

This just happens to add another variable in the mix, a second boost, which doesn't give you a higher top-speed but it allows you to not only take the speed from the prior lap's turbo power up, but get a free barrel-roll boost as well. I'm sure everyone here was already using the prior lap's turbo right before they crossed the start/finish line, so I can't see how anyone can really complain so much.

i wonder why my select button doesn't work alll the time when i try to cancel O_O.

I've noticed just through general gameplay that pressing "Select" doesn't recharge your turbo if you're in the middle of a boost already like a dash plate, BR-boost, or turbo boost... there's almost a sort of cooldown time, it works if you press it right after the boost you're in the middle of comes to an end.

[JABBERJAW]

My only point is that some people are going to like it, and others are not. Noone is ostrasizing anybody. Just a discussion of when does something become cheating/ or using an bug in the game too much. At what point does something become a cheat. The controller thing here in pulse for example. Everyone can tape up the controller? yes? So everyone can do it. Keep in mind, I like the ban on records with the tape because of the way I hold the controller.


My answers to the questions:

1) start button to perform a BR while paused. I would call this cheating, and at the very least complete bullsht

2) Custom controller: Not cheating, as long as there are no macros on the controller. There are already tons of different styles of controllers out there that have their unique advanteages/disadvantages. We all know if a negcon like controller becomes available, Records will fall, but not by the amount of the older games, where analog was far better than digital tapping

3) Controller with a macro: CHEATING in my book, but would have to be allowed I think on a site like wipeout hd. NOt here of course.

4) taping analog stick: I wouldn't consider this cheating, but do not enter times with this because of the zone rules. I can play with my thumb holding up the analog stick anyway.

5) playing pulse/pure at 333: Entering times I would consider it cheating, because of the rules rob put in place. I wish everyone had the ability to put it at 333. The game is about 100% better running like that. Especially pure, I think it runs at a faster framerATE THAN HD

4) select glitch: not cheating, just wished it was removed from the game

[SaturnReturn]

Fair enough. It thought you were heading towards saying the b-s-b thing counting as cheating. My mistake.

[AG-wolf]

1) start button to perform a BR while paused. I would call this cheating, and at the very least complete bullsht

Wait, you can perform a BR while paused? lol THAT's ridiculous

4) select glitch: not cheating, just wished it was removed from the game

This isn't a "glitch," so I don't think it can really be criticized... I like the fact that they implemented a turbo-reset option so I don't have to take one or two EXTRA laps to re-do a failed attempt.

[Spece2goin]

AG-Wolf, do you know Tool Assisted Speedrun?
http://www.dailymotion.com/user/Real...c-2_videogames 20s record Xplosed!
(in french sorry)

it's a manner to finish games as fast as possible, but using a computer, an emulator, a frame per frame programmable play, save whenever you want (look at re-record count), have access to RAM to see variable values etc...
it far from one can do with his hands, and with the 1button barrel roll, i think the topic slowly slip to this...

[AG-wolf]

I'm familiar with tool-assisted speed runs, but PiccoloCube is to F-Zero as Al Sartwell/JABBERJAW is to Wipeout... his videos are actually him playing. The ability to do TAS recordings in WOHD isn't possible yet, to my knowledge.

[leungbok]

Ok, guys, i found a new trick as fast as the b-s-b that i hope will be considered more fair
I call that the NDU-boost for nose down-up boost, lol. The trick is to nose down and after up and to boost. If you do it well, you should be able to perform a br like with the b-s-b. It works with my settings, pad+pitch motion at 100%. I don't know with the stick. It's not easier than the b-s-b (and less fun on my opinion^^) but i only use here the normal gameplay, no ?
Maybe another debate will start, lol. Anyway you'll be able to take part again on the competition Redscar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWl8tAdQI5A

Oh, i made the attempt at rapier speed but it works on phantom too ^^

[yeldar2097]

nuff said
leungbok

[LOUDandPROUD]

Now THAT I have zero problem with...awesome discovery! Thank you, leungbok!

[TheFrostE]

THAT is a trick...the other was simply an exploit...nice technique

[OBH]

thats just the bog standard method for gaining air on straights anyway isnt it?

no taking away from your quick time there though mate

[leungbok]

Not exactly the bog standard method (it's new for me at least). Because if you just nose up and boost you'll not be able to have enough height to perform a br. But nose down first helps to have a better nose up.

[SaturnReturn]

Nicely done leungbok. Although, quite why youtube recommends related videos such as "A Brief History of the Birth of the Federal Trade Commission" and "How the States Got Their Shapes" is completely beyond me .

[JABBERJAW]

That's pretty good. I like it. Have you been using this. I watched one of your videos, and it seems that you get air far better than I do off small bumps. Are you pitching down on the uphill side, then uping at the last second to get more height? You made the ship look floaty like xl for a bit in those videos. I think I do this by just how I'm racing on sebenco and chenchou, but I saw you getting air all over the place without barrel rolls.

also, This down up with the boost. this gives you air even on a flat section? Sorry I don't have time to test it out right now. kids.

[leungbok]

@Jabberjaw. I don't think it's possible to have enough air on a totally flat section, but it can works with very lightly bumpy straights as the start of tracks.