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Thread: boost-select-boost, things to know about it !

  1. #41
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    Darkdrium, you really think that you can convince anyone with this post ?
    i can do the same and look at all your previous posts and out of the context i will use them to make my argumentation right !
    The select-boost trick requires skills and is a fair technique on the opinion of the top racers on sl, so your opinion is nothing for me as i already told you.

    thanks saturn anyway, but i can defend myself against any ayatollah full of himself and absolutely persuaded to have always reason.

    Darkdrium, when i said that people can give up or learn the new techniques, it's because the top ranked players are already using those techniques. I don't want to discourage anybody but i prefer to tell the truth to people, how do your mind works to thinks that it was an insulting intention ? I also said it was possible to find others ways of improving his times but if your goal is to reach top ranking without b-s-b, shortcuts or difficult brs, only with lines you're dreaming, it's impossible now all i can share to help people improving i do (videos, advices...) even if that's mean they will beat me. The insulting thing is comparing me with Infaxsu. And also trying to show me as a twisty cheater, all your argumentation is insulting in fact, i didn't read all your post, all i have noticed is that i only said one thing true, lol, glad to know that master. Strange thing how each time you're coming in a debate the discussing is going quickly out of proportions.
    Last edited by leungbok; 28th May 2009 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #42
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    This seems to be a very tricky subject, I can't help but be on the fence with this one. One one hand you could say skilled pilots such as Leungbok and Pirahpac have found a new way of improving their lap times, where as on the other hand could say that a method has been found to 'exploit' one of the game's features.

    Personally, I don't see this as much different to a new shortcut. You could say that this is a new type of shortcut. After all, it requires a certain amount of skill and patience to achieve. Looking at Leungbok and Pirahpac's videos you can see a lot of time and effort has gone into improving their times. I respect the effort that they have put in to the speed lap scene, if it weren't for them I would not have the times on speed lap that I have now.

    This new 'trick' has its merits and drawbacks. It enables skilled players to get incredible times but the less devoted players times start to age and are no longer as good as they once were.

    I'm not condoning the use of this method, I'm not too keen on it myself, but it does take skill and has now been implemented into the game. I agree with Cerium, it's here now and it'll be very hard to do anything about. I'm happy enough to live with it, it only affects speed lap in which I rarely divulge. As long as multiplayer is fine I won't be complaining.

    If I could have a go at it I would, but I'm not very devoted to speed lap and my SEGA Saturn USB pad lacks a select button .
    Last edited by Amorbis; 28th May 2009 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Should have read speed lap.

  3. #43
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    Zone-glitch, respawn-glitch, single race time-glitches, select-boost glitch (im calling it a glitch now) are part and parcel of this game now. Eventually they'll go but until then...

    Just go race

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    Darkdrium, you really think that you can convince anyone with this post ?
    Yes, I do believe I have better chances by providing reasonable arguments and ample examples than by using ad hominem fallacies like you seem to be doing now.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    i can do the same and look at all your previous posts and out of the context i will use them to make my argumentation right !
    The quote feature is an intended part of this forum. Use it. Personal attacks are not, use them and get banned.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    The select-boost trick requires skills and is a fair technique on the opinion of the top racers on sl, so your opinion is nothing for me as i already told you.
    Ok, so opinions are ranked now, just like the times on the leaderboard. Where has free speech gone to? As I've asked already, why post this thread if you don't expect people to answer? Especially answer in a way that opposes your argumentation? You do realize there are two sides on this argumentation, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    any ayatollah full of himself and absolutely persuaded to have always reason.
    Who is surprised of the ad hominem in here? I am not.
    Show me I am wrong, and I'll accept it. But right now you are showing me that I am right by constantly discrediting yourself in my eyes with those attacks on my person.

    I invite you to reply to my points. Do it without using anything against my person, and I will resume discussion, forgetting about this.
    Don't stop the attacks, and we'll see what will happen.

  5. #45
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    It's one more difficulty to do a perfect lap as some Barrel Roll which are difficult to do.
    So i think it's good improvment for the game.
    Maybe with practice it will become more easier for us.
    Anyway it takes part of the game now, thanks to leungbok for finding it

  6. #46
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    Darkdrium - I didn't see your big post as it appeared as I was typing mine. You do indeed say it's deserved based on the skill, which I think is fair. I can see why leungbok's a bit defensive about it too though. I think it's the comparisons to all the other glitches which, to me at least, have fundamental differences to this one, that could be seen to imply that it is undeserved, even if unintentionally. That's why I just wanted to mention it.

    Anyway, I think all the critical points have been made on the topic and some, including me, are just repeating what's been said before. So I'll refrain from further comment unless I have something original to say (unlikely at this time of night ).

  7. #47
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    Yes, maybe you are right. My comparisons with other glitches/exploit in other games may seem unfair, and with that I agree with you. (PS: See leungbok, had you said something like that, I would have agreed! )

    Again I state that leungbok deserves his rank on speed lap.

    Just to be sure that there is no misunderstanding about that, and that we are only talking about the technique boost select boost and nothing else.
    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    Darkdrium, when i said that people can give up or learn the new techniques, it's because the top ranked players are already using those techniques. I don't want to discourage anybody but i prefer to tell the truth to people, how do your mind works to thinks that it was an insulting intention ?
    How my mind works? No, it's simply how it reads. Here, I will translate in french just for you:
    "Si les joueurs veulent être en compétition dans les records, ils doivent utiliser toutes les techniques, trouver les leurs, ou simplement abandoner."
    This implies that if players are unable to do any of the two first points, they should give up, which is very nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    The insulting thing is comparing me with Infaxsu.
    Where did I say leungbok is like Infaxsu, apart from right now when I am asking this question? I just said that I would not allow anyone demotivating the others under my watch, just like when I called out Infaxsu for what he said to Al. I am only talking about history, and the only thing it has to do with this discussion is that you've demotivated others by saying they should give up. That's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    And also trying to show me as a twisty cheater, all your argumentation is insulting in fact
    I show you as a cheater? Okay, please show me where in my post have I said I am talking about your lap on Anulpha Pass. WHERE? It's nowhere, don't bother looking for it because it doesn't exist. What I am talking about is boost select boost, why I think it shouldn't be used (It is an unintended use of something added recently). I also argued against all of your points for why it should be used with my own arguments and examples. I don't think you are a cheater, I honestly don't! How many times am I going to have to say: I am not targeting you or anyone else in this discussion, I am only reasonably discussing the boost select boost technique?!
    In French: j'ai jamais dis que t'es un tricheur, j'ai jamais dis que pirahpac qui utilise aussi cette technique est un tricheur, je fais juste discuter la technique et j'expose mes idées pourquoi je pense que ca ne devrait pas être utilisé, c'est Ã* dire que c'est une utilisation de quelque chose de nouveau qui n'a pas été ajouté afin d'être utilisé Ã* cette fin. VoilÃ*.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    Strange thing how each time you're coming in a debate the discussing is going quickly out of proportions.
    Yes, that tends to happen when someone starts an argumentation.
    Last edited by Task; 2nd November 2009 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts

  8. #48
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    Darkdrium i start to be tired (it's late here) and i'll try to be clear and not misunderstood.
    When i posted the link of my video showing the boost-select-boost on the "wipeout hd videos" thread, the first reactions i had was that this trick was unfair. After that i have said what i thought about that, Saturn gave a try on the trick and even if he didn't totally changes his opinion he understood better the trick. With following post i felt too that members reacting on the subject didn't know exactly what it was about ! Severall pilots didn't even seen the video, but talked about it. I kindly told them "please, try" and we'll discuss after. Is that insulting ?

    You ask me to answer to all your arguments but did you answered to that one : Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
    And if I remember leungbok you were interested in finding it to make that faster time. This is where we disagree completely.
    What ???
    I was interested to know what was your so mysterious find on seb reverse, yes.
    But once you told me that it was a total glitch (with no need of any skill so totally different with the select boost trick) i told you i wasn't interested anymore ! RIGHT OR WRONG ????.


    You try to make me pass for the bad guy, but your methods stinks really because with that sentence "and if i remember..." you're implying that i'm searching to any way to improve my times even if it's glitches or cheats. If don't, explain me what was the goal here. My defensive reaction started from that ! But maybe i didn't understood the real intention of this sentence, english is not my native tongue !

    Just give me an answer on that and i'll probably apologize and all !
    Last edited by leungbok; 29th May 2009 at 10:09 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    Darkdrium i start to be tired (it's late here) and i'll try to be clear and not misunderstanded.
    When i posted the link of my video showing the boost-select-boost on the "wipeout hd videos" thread, the first reactions i had was that this trick was unfair. After that i have said what i thought about that, Saturn gave a try on the trick and even if he didn't totally changes his opinion he understood better the trick. With following post i felt too that members reacting on the subject didn't know exactly what it was about ! Severall pilots didn't even seen the video, but talked about it. I kindly told them "please, try" and we'll discuss after. Is that insulting ?
    No. I have not said it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    You ask me to answer to all your arguments but did you answered to that one : Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
    And if I remember leungbok you were interested in finding it to make that faster time. This is where we disagree completely.
    What ???
    I was interested to know what was your so mysterious find on seb reverse, yes.
    But once you told me that it was a total glitch (with no need of any skill so totally different with the select boost trick) i told you i wasn't interested anymore ! RIGHT OR WRONG ????.


    You try to make me pass for the bad guy, but your methods stinks really because with that sentence "and if i remember..." you're implying that i'm searching to any way to improve my times even if it's glitchs or cheats. If don't explain me what was the goal here. My defensive reaction started from that ! But maybe i didn't understood the real intention of this sentence, english is not my native tongue !
    I apologize, it is my mistake.
    I have since deleted this PM (Or I can't find it). I remembered your interest in this exploit and that is all, because as soon as I posted in the bugs report thread you said you were going to find out about it yourself (this post is now deleted), which is what I mainly remember.

    Again you are not a cheater in my eyes, if this can clear up everything.
    I still stand by my idea that the technique should not be used because it is something it was not intended for.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerium View Post
    in my opinion. It should be all-or-nothing. Either use every exploit and glitch to your advantage, or play a clean game the way it was (obviously) meant to be played.
    That was what I didn`t have the commitment to say, maybe.

    Perhaps if the game allows you to do it, you are allowed to do it. If the game then allows you to do things that no longer make sense to you, then the game is broken. It`s about the way the game (and games) are built. We don`t need to make this personal and turn this into "Jaytech 2: Attack of the Select Button." This BSB trick is a fact and a tricky one, but nothing will get rid of it. Who remembers the old "play to win" debate about shortcuts? It`s relevant. Where are the search function ninjas?

    I do think Cerium`s post (which the quote links to) sums it up very very well. This stunt isn`t a game-breaker, but certainly makes the speed-lap competition a bit broken for many of us. That`s our choice and it`s the choice of others to enjoy it. There are still many other ways to play.

    As KGB said, Leungbok is a top pilot, and he does all this on an SDTV, afaik, which is heroic whichever way I look at it.

  11. #51
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    Ok Dark, i felt so much negative reactions about the b-s-b (in fact i thought people will say "oh great, let's try that, it looks fun !" lol) that i was maybe a few paranoïd too, your reaction now proves that you're not the obstinate kid i was saying. So i apologize, in french "excuse moi Dark, t'es pas un gamin, et ton avis vaux le mien (mais je preferes le mien, lol)"
    Oh, and for the discuss about your find on sebenco reverse, it was on the arena's chatbox with pirhapac where you told us what it was about, and i told you that it was not interesting after all.
    And i'm also totally sorry if i had discouraged pilots in my post where i was using the words "give up". It was a clumsy way of saying that the sl phantom top 10 rank is becoming so insane, lol, that it's impossible to reach it without mastering all the techniques. But if your goal is not to reach the top 10, but only to have fun with the game, never give up please, and you have all my respect too, the only fact of playing wipeout gives you my respect and sympathy.

    Lunar, lol. but i'm so used with this old tv that it's not an unfair advantage.
    As you said, it's a question of choices. And if you have fun, thats what the games are made for. For me you know the no-br option brokes the game aswell but i gave it a try in the Epsilon's pressure tournament. It was fun but... Gahhh, i definitely prefer br on !
    Last edited by leungbok; 29th May 2009 at 12:26 AM.

  12. #52
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    I didn't know there was even a button to unvalidate a lap.

    Having seen this B-S-B (more like BS) method, I won't be trying it anytime, cause if you ask me it's pretty lame tbh (nice find however) :\

    I'm not that anal about TT's to be pulling off exploits like that anyway.

    And yes, I still don't know where this SB Rev Shortcut is and I rather not know.

  13. #53
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    To do all of this at the start, and then get a perfect lap .... is truly stuff of legend, and I respect you sir

    Right ...so let me get this straight?

    1) point at the start line
    2) Pull Up (left thumb on down)
    3) Hit Boost
    4) Cancel boost (left thumb on Select )
    5) Hit Boost Again
    <-- Cross Start Line -->
    6) Perform BR (left thumb on pad)
    7)...land and boost

    Have I got it right?

  14. #54
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    wow, lots of posts here. I don't like it personally, because it is I feel something stupid I need to do at the beginning of the lap the get a good time. Personally, I love shortcuts, like chengchou reverse or terafumos (awesome jump here), but don't like street fighter, doing some funky move for a boost. I have complained about the game being way too easy and only being about weapons (which it is in multiplayer), so maybe if there was some stupid ass technique that was hard as hell to do that increased your speed (enough to pull away, not .1), I might like it. Basically because wall riding doesn't affect your ship. Ok, off topic a little.

    you may get your wish on that negcon, but probably not until after the NA convention

    How many tracks does this affect?

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    well here goes my opinion...i dont really care either way. Look at aArnauds videos from his runs through XL with the shortcuts, those also weren't intended to be used as he used them in the game BUT the times still stand. me personally, am not a fan of speed laps or TT. i play Wipeout for the competition against others, not against a clock. ( although i am very fond of zone mode ). i know im a good pilot, and ive been playing for years, so if ppl REALLY REALLY want to be in that top 10 for a few tracks and will stop at nothing to find new tricks to do it then have it . I just dont need a computer screen with numbers and names displayed to tell me im good.

    In conclusion , I love all the pilots here from all over the world with different opinions, play the game as you want...as long as you dont stop playing wipeout ever and HAVE FUN WITH IT !

    Cheers
    FrostE out

  16. #56
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    wow, half this thread is tl;dr...

    it's like snaking and shift boosting in F-Zero GX all over again...

    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    you may get your wish on that negcon, but probably not until after the NA convention
    I might be able to pull off a NeGcon if I have enough time and patience

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturnReturn View Post
    Firstly, before anyone chimes in I do think they should watch the video and try to do this trick themselves:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhcvU8VPjm4
    See? It's impossibly difficult. It's not just pushing a button and is probably one of the most challenging things to do in the entire game.

    In some ways I still don't like it. In others it's pretty impressive. Meh!
    Even I'm not interested in this skill or doing it myself (my last SL is months ago and I'm also struggling w/ d-pad BRs ... ) I'm really curious how this looks from the 'controllers' perspective. So, if there is any time left to post a (spliscreen) vid of the controller handling while performing those stunts plz do so. THX.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mu5 View Post
    To do all of this at the start, and then get a perfect lap .... is truly stuff of legend, and I respect you sir

    Right ...so let me get this straight?

    1) point at the start line
    2) Pull Up (left thumb on down)
    3) Hit Boost
    4) Cancel boost (left thumb on Select )
    5) Hit Boost Again
    <-- Cross Start Line -->
    6) Perform BR (left thumb on pad)
    7)...land and boost

    Have I got it right?
    Yes, that's it !
    You have to do the thumb combo very fast and sometimes the select trick don't works and you start the lap with few speed, but fortunately you have lot of other laps

    Maybe the thing i had to say first about the boost-select-boost is the fact that it's fun to do !
    Really, mates, try it ! You can dislike this option and don't want to use it for many reasons, but give it a try. The feeling when you fly over all of the last straight on vineta forward for example is awesome ! It's hard to do it consistently and it often fails, but when it works : Whaouuu !!! Big adrenaline rush.

    @Jabberjaw. "how many tracks does this affect?" Hey, mate that's not a plague
    In fact it's (atm lol) possible to use it with speed gain on vineta forward, ubermall forward, anulpha forward and reverse, metropia forward and reverse but on those 2 last tracks it's Too much difficult so i'm not sure it can helps. All the records on metropia were made by the top ranked pilots with the "classical" method (including sometimes a triple br anyway, lol).

    @Thefroste . We have limits in our quest for speed. while a new discovery requires skills, makes part of the game (even if it's not made for that goal^^) and is possible to be used by everyone, we're fine with it. And you know, at the begining i was playing speedlaps/time trials as a training for multiplayer races. To perfectly know all the turns, the best places to boost or br... But i finally find this mode very addictive (like zone must be when you don't suck at it like me, lol). To be or not in the top 10 rank don't really care in fact (it's anyway something you can be proud of), what's care is : "Did my lap was the fastest and the closest to perfection (my perfection, the one i can reach) as possible ?". If not, i want to try to live that even once. And it don't necessarily means a rank 1, you can have this kind of search even below the 100 rank or beyond (that's don't matter). What's matter is the feeling of achievement you can have when you succeed in a "good" lap. For example, i'm please with my lap times on sol2 reverse and the 2 chengou, because i succeed in all i would succeed on these tracks (having good lines, performing all the br, hitting all the speedpads i would, successfully sideshifting at the right place on the right moment...) even if there's no rank 1. contrarily, i'm not satisfied with my anulpha reverse lap, because i feel i can do better, i did few mistakes and missed some speedpads and sucked on few lines. On speedlap you don't fight against the clock, but against yourself. The ghosts are a good materialisation (if it can be said about a ghost, lol) of that. Even if multiplayer is my favorite mode, speedlap is (sometimes^^) less frustrating, no ramming, lag, vista pads, lack of luck on weapons pick up... and in that mode you're alone with your boost, your skills, your knowledge of the track, your imagination to find new tricks and your fu***g ghosts^^.


    And for those who are anyway interested in trying the boost-select-boost, here is my first attempt in using this trick on anulpha forward where i shortly explain how to do it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MttTY3GotRk
    Last edited by leungbok; 29th May 2009 at 01:24 PM.

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    plague, that's a good word. There seems to be something stupid in every game that should not be there. Here are some plagues I like, some I don't

    like:

    1) big shortcuts, with skill, but not half the track

    dislike:

    1) going through walls: (culprits) xl/2097/wo3/wo64

    2) pitch foward speeds you up all the time: (culprits) pure/pulse

    3) Brake tapping for speed boosts: (culprits) xl (on pads) 2097 (anywhere). Even though I like the speed from this, I would rather have the game just be faster

    4) Respawn ahead on tracks: (culprits) Fusion

    5) select thing: culprit = HD

    6) scraping wall for speed boost: culprit wo3. this made the game play choppier than it should have, although it is not that bad. It requires skill, but it is a stupid skill

    7) sideshift: I know this is not a BUG, but this belongs in fzero. I don't think turning will ever again be turning way in advance (like with a qirex in xl), and then sliding nicely around the turn. Now it's spaz time to make sure you ship grips the turn. Out of all of the previous bugs for me, If this was removed, i would be happy to keep the rest

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    Quote Originally Posted by JABBERJAW View Post
    7) sideshift: I know this is not a BUG, but this belongs in fzero. I don't think turning will ever again be turning way in advance (like with a qirex in xl), and then sliding nicely around the turn. Now it's spaz time to make sure you ship grips the turn. Out of all of the previous bugs for me, If this was removed, i would be happy to keep the rest
    if you see the description of slideshift in the game, it wasn't made for the purpose of turning faster, but avoiding things in an emmergency move...
    but it's used by CPU ships to turn too, so it was thought that way too.

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