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Thread: Lag

  1. #1
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    Default Lag

    Hi all
    I think i need an explanation about lag as i don't understand it in great detail myself.

    Yesterday i was playing the elite AI in a tournament and getting hit by the usual barrage of missiles, rockets etc. But it seemed quite easy to make it into the lead and stay there. The weapons that were coming my way were a problem and they knocked me about a bit but it was manageable and i was easily able to maintain speed.

    But today, when playing online i was getting knocked about left, right and center, if i hit one mine then i would slow right down, if someone hits me then i go slamming into a wall, ships seem to stick to me until we separate and then i would fly off in a completely wrong direction, a missile slows me down to a complete stop more or less.

    It seems like a different game at times and I find it very annoying when I clash with pilots and always come off worse, then have to catch them up, try and pass them only for it to happen again.

    It's been discused here on various different threads, and has been put down to internet connection speeds, can anyone enlighten me on this

  2. #2
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    Basically, lag is the delay between the PS3 and the server recieving information from eachother.

    Obviously, if the server isnt recieving instruction on where you are in the race quickly enough, it cant accurately place you on the track, or if you arent recieving information fast enough, the PS3 cannot show your opponents exact position - simply because it doesnt know where they are yet!

    You can liken lag to the delay in an overseas phonecall - lag is the time it takes for the other persons voice to reach you.

    Im sure there are plenty of guides on how to maximise your connection as to reduce lag as much as possible - a google search will more than likely answer any questions you might have.

  3. #3
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    Perhaps Gracer's post did too good a job of explaining But as mentioned in the May Day Avalon thread, the lag issue pops up a lot. So maybe it would be good to discuss the issue here centrally and have a fuller discussion with everyone involved.

    I'd be interested to hear how everyone here thinks lag manifests itself in the game. What do people think is lag and what is just to do with this mysterious "netcode" folks talk about.

    A particular question I have is - why do crappy games with loads of ramming and vista pads seem to occur, only for more of the problems to go away, or at least reduce, if a new game is created. I mean, like, seriously, what's up with that? You know?

  4. #4
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    I'm interested to know what you mean Saturn by 'ramming'. As I can think of four variations of what could be described as ramming when playing online.

    The type that is similar when you play offline, where both ships fair the same after a collision.

    The type that makes you leave the track or fly up in the air!

    The type where you stick to the other ship and watch helplessly as your shield goes down.

    Or the type of ramming where you always come off second best even if you are a faster pilot. I've often thought this might be to do with momentum but it doesn't seem to matter if you are in the lead but slower than the pilot behind you or catching up with someone.

    I've experienced this with up to 2mb connection speeds and still get it (even worse) with up to 8mb.

    Hope a few people reply to this as I find it very interesting and also the fact that I am not playing HD much because of it.

  5. #5
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    I get all of those types of collision, KGB. Some are more common than others. I'd say the most common for me is some hybrid between always coming off second best and getting stuck to the other pilot. I had a collision with Kanar's Icaras the other day where I got stuck on him which led to him being eliminated after about 4 seconds off scraping. My definition of 'ramming' is the unavoidable collision of ships that take different racing lines, which can be combined with the affect of the internet connection.

    I'm quite sure that the reason I get such great lag is that I have ADSL 512KBPs internet in rural Cumbria, topped off with a crazy router that can't decide whether it wants to connect or not.

  6. #6
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    LMBO...I want.
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    I think it has more to do with the PSN as a whole and how many people are online doing various things.

    Lag and other issues were a lot less [well seems so] prior to HOME becoming a open beta.

    That's when people started to get the unable to play with their original PSNID account errors,the messaging system started to slow down considerably and wipeout HD started to get,what were then,minor online game play issues.

    We should "collectively" do some sort of investigative research through each of our personal previous posts to track down,in chronological order,when and what problems started to appear and compare them to events that have occurred that might of had a baring on each of these problems.
    Even trolling through the Official BUG report thread and comparing it to events would probably help as well.

    For example:
    HD released [date]
    System update 2.70 released 2 days later [date] - problems?
    First HD patch released [date]- problems?[the 100 friend limit bug]
    System update 2.71 released [date] -problems?
    HOME open beta released [date]-problems?
    ETC

    It might make for some interesting reading and help find out exactly what might of been the initial cause of each problem as it arose.

    Just an idea.

  8. #8
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    I remember the night (bloody morning here) that Wipeout HD got released and everybody who was able to download it quickly, and then went straight onto online to race other people, i remember getting responses on messenger saying quote "online is great", also "there is absolutely no lag, like in Pulse". Now look at it, its ****ed bad. Im racing back on Pulse again since im tired of the Vista pads on HD. Yes there is lag in Pulse, but i do see a fair bit of it, but it is nowhere near the incredibly frustrating lag, vista pads and heavy ships i get on HD. Im enjoying Pulse once again, like last year. Like i said to other people, "At least with Pulse there are no Vista pads". The difference with the PSP and the PS3, is that the PSP isnt signed into the PSN list like with the PS3, so the problem is partly do to PSN errors, and the rest of that is due to the hosts connection speed i guess.

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    you might have noticed that no information about latency and ping are shown, and you can't choose a game on those criteria.

    and the game itself seems to allow high latency, with very incaccurate ships positions, and some players becoming ghosts to prevent inapropriate collisions.
    but there are many collisions you did not even expect because of latency, and that can be a source of bugs, like a ship suddenly going very fast from 1 point to another, and hitting you very hard, but was in reallity at the same speed as you.

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    Sure that sony has work to do in improving the quality of his online system.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spece2goin View Post
    you might have noticed that no information about latency and ping are shown, and you can't choose a game on those criteria.

    and the game itself seems to allow high latency, with very incaccurate ships positions, and some players becoming ghosts to prevent inapropriate collisions.
    but there are many collisions you did not even expect because of latency, and that can be a source of bugs, like a ship suddenly going very fast from 1 point to another, and hitting you very hard, but was in reallity at the same speed as you.
    Ridge Racer 7 online was quite bad like that. It experience that alot on online.

  12. #12
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    KGB - I guess by ramming I mean anything crazy that is beyond what happens offline against AI. So all the things you've listed. You can fly off the track from what seems like a split second nudge as a ship hits you then suddenly disappears. I'm pretty sure that's a lag issue to do with the game interpolating positions wrongly, or whatever it does. The way ships stick to eachother though - not so sure about that one. Me and haydn got up close and personal as we were stuck together for the entire length of the Moa Therma mag strip once. I felt so dirty afterwards. It's just not right I tells ya.

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    Thought a lot more people would be posting here,

    Here is another problem that must be down to lag. Does any one else suffer from the start countdown being out of sync. It doesn't do it all the time but sometimes the bar that runs along the start sign is no where near where it should be corresponding to the numbers being counted down. This has led me to so many slow starts it's untrue. I've racked my brain thinking if something changed prior to this happening, but can't think of anything.

  14. #14
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    For me the very worst thing that makes me want to stop playing immediately is when you are turning, and a ship hits you and makes you lose control and your line in that turn.
    Then there are the BRs, there is sadly now input lag with it (yay) that seem to work just as well as in PurE. I've lost count of how many times I could have done a BR to gain a position but it was instead denied, and I was smashed to bits by the opposition (Seriously, those eliminations after a failed BR because of the game happen so often it's not funny).
    Then there is ships going through walls, perfect when you shoot a missile and it wastes itself on the wall for no effect. Getting hit by weapons in front of you. The bomb from the player on the left appearing in front. Me not getting the first pad in the race when I am first, it's the second player who gets it and it turns out its rockets, perfect.
    I am sick of the glitches, bugs and lag in this game. I've never seen any other game like it, where bugs were allowed to stay for so long and were so numerous that the online play is totally different than what it should be and would be if there were nothing.

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    I've not had the countdown issue too much. Sometimes it happens, but usually only if I quit the XMB too late. There have been a few times more recently though where I've just received no boost at all. I guess that could be a similar problem.

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    What ever DD said. Truth in every word.

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    My issues are old news really, I'll tell anyone that will listen that I don't think I'm getting a fair crack of the whip.

    If you remember that Avalon Session you hosted Saturn, the ones you posted on Youtube where I kept winning (believe it or not). It seemed that i was getting no lag at all there, as i wasn't getting shoved around or anything strange happening, maybe it was happening to everyone else though. If you could compare that to the English qualifiers it was a different game, Amorbis seemed to have high powered weapons that totally crippled me.

    The last time i played on Monday, Mad-Ice hosted some games and I felt that I was competing on the same playing field, won some ,lost more, but i felt it was a fair reflection of the skills as I know Mad ice is better than me. Just before i joined his room however I was having a nightmare with my screwed countdown and pilots that I know are slower than me knocking me all over the place.

    I don't know if I am jaded now from playing this game too much, but it has left me felling rather apathetic to the whole game.

  18. #18
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    The start countdown problem usually occurs when somebody has joined the game late,and the more people that do join late the long that difference is.

    I've had games where 3 have joined and one has left and the countdown has been over a second out of sync.

  19. #19
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    Cheers blackwiggle, I was begining to think that it was only me who got that one, out of ten races i get it about five time at the moment.

  20. #20
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    I sometimes get the out of sync countdown, but it's quite uncommon. It only usually happens when I'm downloading something on my PC, racing with Japanese and/or Australian pilots or just as a random event. I don't worry too much about it. For some reason at the end of the race when this does happen it doesn't count the time spent me sitting at the start when everyone else has gone, resulting in strange wins where I should've come second but the time difference put me in first .

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