Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 149

Thread: boost-select-boost, things to know about it !

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Torrington, CT USA
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    AG-Wolf
    Posts
    1,201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaturnReturn View Post
    Hmm, so what is he doing? This?:

    1) Turbo w/ pitch up
    2) Barrel Roll
    3) Select to invalidate lap
    4) Turbo again
    5) Pass start/finish line, ; get new turbo with lap start
    6) receive boost from barrel roll

    If you ask me, that's f***ing awesome and at the same time totally difficult. The concept of "speed lap" is to get the fastest lap... there's a reason it is separate from the full 3/4/5 laps of "Time Trial" mode.

    I understand what Al's saying with turning around at the beginning of races in the older games, but as far as this is concerned, I have no issue with it.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    paris
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    leungbok - BADTEST
    Posts
    2,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AG-wolf View Post
    Hmm, so what is he doing? This?:1) Turbo w/ pitch up
    2) Barrel Roll
    3) Select to invalidate lap
    4) Turbo again
    5) Pass start/finish line, ; get new turbo with lap start
    6) receive boost from barrel roll
    Correct, but you must place the "2)" after the "5)"

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Wow - that is incredible skill

    Cant see how you could do all that - physically - on the standard PS3 Dual Shock pad. If you could re-map select to a different button ...then maybe

    Im thinking he is using a 'custom' pad - to allow for select to be mapped to a normal button / sensible position?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Enfield, North London, UK
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    SaturnReturn
    Posts
    2,828

    Default

    G'Kyl - I think I know the point you're making. However, then you compare this trick to using a cheat code in the menu. This trick is nothing like that. Other people consider it in the same category as shortcuts. I don't, as it can't be used in races or time trial like shortcuts can, so it creates a fundmental difference between the modes. However, if you had to categorise this trick, then it would be far more at home in a category along with shortcuts than it would with a category that included cheat codes or hacks.

    Also, you say, "These craft have a boost", but they "don't have a select button". Well, surely, as it's a game, they have whatever they are programmed to have. They seem to magically regain this boost ability after each lap. There's no reason, as far as I can see, that they shouldn't have a button in the ship which is precisely equivalent to the select button.

    Mu5 - I don't think leungbok would be using a custom pad. As he is a pioneer of all these SL techniques, and knowing the crazy stuff he's pulled off in the past, I think (hope) he has to much "SL honour" () for that kind of thing.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    paris
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    leungbok - BADTEST
    Posts
    2,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaturnReturn View Post
    Mu5 - I don't think leungbok would be using a custom pad. As he is a pioneer of all these SL techniques, and knowing the crazy stuff he's pulled off in the past, I think (hope) he has to much "SL honour" () for that kind of thing.
    Ha ha, thanks mate ! No, no custom paddle for me
    But if someone like the obstinate jabberjaw find a way of using a neggie on wohd, i'll probably give it a try

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Montréal
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    Darkdrium777
    Posts
    4,553

    Default

    I've already expressed myself on the first video of pirhapac:
    it is an unforeseen exploit of something added inside the game to make it more convenient.
    Takes skill to do it? Sure. It doesn't make it any more valid.
    There are plenty of examples in plenty of games where performing something takes skills, yet it's not considered a valid way of beating the game. Look at speedruns of mario for example, they skip entire levels. It takes skill to do it, was the game designed with that in mind? No. Is it valid? No, it's an exploit.

    What we've got to ask ourselves here is: "Why was cancelling your lap and regaining your turbo added?"
    100% sure it has nothing to do with performing a barrel roll at the start of the race.
    It was so you didn't have to run two laps to make a record attempt, only one. That's it, nothing else.

    If not: I found a way to make a faster time than Wotan on Sebenco. It's part of the game, so surely I can use it and gain first place on the leaderboard? The answer is no. Because it has nothing to do with finding the race line, it's about exploiting something inside the game.
    Which is why I erased my time.
    And if I remember leungbok you were interested in finding it to make that faster time. This is where we disagree completely.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    france
    PSN ID
    pirhapac
    Posts
    178

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Timezone
    GMT + 8
    PSN ID
    KIGO1987
    Posts
    3,303

    Default

    MrPacman your back, thought you dont post on the zone anymore

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    france
    PSN ID
    pirhapac
    Posts
    178

    Default

    cuz i like this little batpac and for support my batmate leungbok

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    3,446

    Default

    : perversely adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course in spite of reason, arguments, or persuasion

    I don't agree with perversely, or reason

    I never said it was illegal. I said I don't like it. the developers didn't add that for that pupose, but to make you be able to use a turbo at the start of a lap, so you wouldn't have to do another full lap before getting a good start. All I said, is I think that technique sucks, like I think snaking in fzero sucks. Neither are illegal, and if I go for best times in lap mode, I will certainly use that technique. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

    OH, one second. so does that mean if I press start, then set myself up for a barrel roll better, by pitching and tapping like a nut, to make sure I get every barrel roll as I hit start again, that those records would be fine for time trial mode?

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Location, Location
    PSN ID
    kgb1971
    Posts
    1,681

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaturnReturn View Post
    Also, you say, "These craft have a boost", but they "don't have a select button". Well, surely, as it's a game, they have whatever they are programmed to have. They seem to magically regain this boost ability after each lap. There's no reason, as far as I can see, that they shouldn't have a button in the ship which is precisely equivalent to the select button.
    Are you telling me that they are strapped in to that cockpit with something other than a DS3. The cheating bastards!!!!!

    In the face of a little provocation leungbok, I think you are doing a great job in sticking up for yourself. I personally have no real opinion about this as I am not a big fan of SL. But I do remember you once deleted your whole game to stop a time you didn't feel correct to be entered in to the tables which was admirable stuff indeed. You obviously feel this select thing is part of the game.

    This to me is just pushing the game further than some people want to push it, me included.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    On the beach, England
    PSN ID
    AnErare, AnE
    Posts
    466

    Default

    Leungbok, I think you misunderstood or I have been vague with my expression.. I don't think this b-s-b is s**t or c**p, I actually appreciate the effort and the way it is used. Judging from the initial video on vineta fwd it already made clear this is one tough m*f* swaying around with the ship.

    As I said it appears this was not what the design had in mind and the outcome is so implausible. I do not in anyway want to pretend I can compete in SL, I just can not do that, neither do I want to put any blame on anyone using the trick. That's why I said I do like the looks of it. And I was serious about that and still am!

    I didn't think a lot of people knew about it, and I was right. You can see that in this thread. The facts there are video's online doesn't change that per se, also not that many people know you guys post

    In this way at least the information is more accesible. That's also what this entire forum is about and I feel we all should honour that.

    Now, let's all be friendly with eachother again and share the game we love as we have been doing before. I may have been dismal in my post in the video's thread but I was, about the availability of the information being obscure. My only goal has been to make it more accesible.

    Cheers,

    AnE

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    paris
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    leungbok - BADTEST
    Posts
    2,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkdrium777 View Post
    And if I remember leungbok you were interested in finding it to make that faster time. This is where we disagree completely.
    What ???
    I was interested to know what was your so mysterious find on seb reverse, yes.
    But once you told me that it was a total glitch (with no need of any skill so totally different with the select boost trick) i told you i wasn't interested anymore ! RIGHT OR WRONG ????.
    And what does mean that the game must be played in that or that way ?
    And i can feel in your answer that i don't deserve my rank on the board because i'm using a trick like the select-boost ?
    I play wipeout since the first game was released on the psx and i finished all the wipeout games at 100 % because this franchise is the only one racer for me. So i don't care of your opinion on how to play the game. Are you the official referee ? Or the supreme expert of speedlaps and how it must be played ?
    You suppose i'm not a fair player wich use a glitch right, and my anulpha's laps have nothing to do with racing or lines.
    You're kinda young to give me lessons, you know ! You first have to learn how to respect others opinion like Jabberjaw do even if he disagree.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Timezone
    GMT + 8
    PSN ID
    KIGO1987
    Posts
    3,303

    Default

    ****ing Leungbok is king on Wipeout HD TT and SLs now days. **** me, looking through your videos you've got good. Come a fair way from the Pulse days ****

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brighton, UK
    PSN ID
    Andybob35/ZoNeS
    Posts
    110

    Post

    In my opinion this is further exploiting the game... and since i wont see it online im not really fussed. I welcomed the whole 'select' thing so you could restart your lap, at least that way i dont get bored doing two laps for one near good lap then repeating...again and again and again. Ill agree with Leungbok, skill & patience is needed to perform this trick but a true test of a good time/racer minus shortcuts/exploits (or whatever) is moa reverse.. I think there one barrel roll at the start but not much else so is the fairest time. Others will disagree im sure.

    To be fair only the die-hard SL fans will be using this to gain an extra 00.00.10 but fair game to them, its just not cricket in my opinion. Back in the day when i played 2097, i only had my mates times to beat (would dread that memory card with new times to beat..) and recently seen asa's shortcuts on 2097 (hats off dude, never thought of it myself!) but thanks all to the internet…

    When it comes down to Speed laps and Time Trial game modes, I stick with Gran Turismo as its without exploits, just racing lines and skill (provided your using the same car/tuned etc). And if I want that arcade experience from a racing game, I play wipeout instead as I can literally wipe away the opposition (ha ha no respawn offline).

    So to sum up, if you can do it, do it! But once one person does it, we ALL have to do it, well to keep a high rank anyway… meh

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    paris
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    leungbok - BADTEST
    Posts
    2,546

    Default

    Don't care Anerare, i understood your point of view, there's no problem between us
    About the fact that lot of people don't know the b-s-b or haven't seen the video, it don't prevent them to speak about it.

    Pirah, thanks mate, you bloody cheater !

    Kigo, thank you too

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Montréal
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    Darkdrium777
    Posts
    4,553

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    My mate Pirahpac already shows this trick on his "pirapatch" video of ubermall several weeks ago, and i too, with my "vineta's new trick". This technique is known by all the video's viewers, and the access is public, no secret about it.
    There are many videos with public access to exploits possible in other video games. The fact that it's public doesn't mean it is automatically ok to do it yourself.

    Also, if we were to use every "ingenious options" inside the game to compete, then zone wouldn't be a matter of survival, just the one who can tape his controller and afford the electricity bill to keep his PS3 running the longest.
    And:
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    It's not a bug ! It's an ingenious use of a new option of the game only efficient on speedlaps.
    is not a point you can make.
    Because arguably what we know as the zone glitch could be considered an ingenious use of something on Anulpha Pass to reach the highest score (Which it is). Yet SL is going to fix that, and is currently working on the fix. I guess not every "ingenious uses" are allowed eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    IT REQUIRES ABILITY AND TRAINING !!
    So does any exploit in any game. It takes practise to be able to perform even exploits, so I don't see how this is a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    An average player WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO IMPROVE HIS TIMES without a serious training !
    This is true. Perhaps the only thing true in your entire post.

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    In counter strike the top players are able to perform headshots through the walls, it's a bug in the game but a very known trick wich requires skills and is allowed on the official contests.
    You admit yourself it's a bug. You are comparing your boost-select-boost to a well known bug. I don't see how this can help your case. The fact that it's "accepted" still doesn't mean it's not a bug or an exploit. You admit yourself it is. I have no further comment on this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    In wipeout xl, it's possible to use some crazy high air shortcuts, it can also be considered as a bug but in my opinion the videos showing Asayyodah performing perfect laps are awesome and maybe one of the best entertainment stuff for the wipeout franchise.
    Wait. There are many things here: first you say shortcuts in XL can be considered bugs. Okay, so shortcuts in HD should be considered bugs as well. All shortcuts are bugs, or are not bugs, you can't select case by case, or your logic is broken. Then the entertainment part: it's fun doesn't mean it's ok. It was fun to get out of the maps in Resistance Fall of Man to go see the teddy bear on the rock outside of the map. It's still an exploit, and a patch came out to prevent it. They got rid of the fun with the teddy bear oh noes! D:

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    We are trying to push the limit of the game further, and all the existing and FAIR tips are welcome (those wich requires ability).
    Anything in a game requires ability. But not everything inside a game means it can be used. You are trying to push the limit of the game. In doing so, you have discovered shortcuts and barrel rolls. Both of which I have nothing against. But now you are using something implemented with the intent of making things more convenient as an exploit to go even faster. As I said, not everything in the game should be used. Getting out of maps in Resistance was in the game, yet using it could lead to a ban until it was patched. Originally for the easter egg (the teddy bear), people started sniping from that spot under the map, killing anyone in the enemy base. And everything in that was fair, as arguably anyone could do it, it was available for everyone to do! You see the flaw in this argument now? And public videos were also available! Anyone could learn how to do it!

    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    If pilots wants to compete on the rankings they better have to learn all the techniques, to find their owns or to simply give up.
    In this argumentation I find this incredibly insulting. So everyone should learn to do the boost select boost or give up? Well go **** yourself. Seriously. This is incredibly insulting and demotivating to anyone putting time and dedication into the game. I am appalled that nobody has picked up on this yet, especially in the context of this forum where everything is about encouraging the others. The fact that you say "simply give up" shows how much you care about those other people. And those other people includes pretty much everyone who's ever posted here, including myself. So thank you for the insult, but no thanks.

    Oh yeah, just before someone comes in with "try it first then you'll know what you're talking about!"
    I did, and it seemed even more like an exploit when I managed to land it.
    So:
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    And please mates, before sharing your conclusions on this, try it first on every track, it'll be more interesting to argue for or against if we all know what's this stuff is about
    is not a point you can make. It doesn't matter in other games if you're able to perform an exploit or not before you pass it off as an exploit, so why should it in this case? I have no idea how people managed to make tanks invisible and shoot through walls in Warhawk before it was patched. But I should know how to do it myself before I say it is an exploit? No. And: "But it's in the game! etc.", please it's still an exploit even if it's in the game doesn't mean it's ok.

    My point is: your argumentation is full of flaws, and is even insulting to other pilots. Had you presented this better maybe I could have agreed with you but the way it is defended now I can't see myself ever agreeing with such ridiculous claims.
    I could go on and on about examples just like I did now, and point out to you why such things that we have not accepted now, in WipEout HD or in other games, could be accepted using your very own points.

    Ultimately, the decision rests with SL, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if select was patched out eventually. The weak argumentation doesn't even help in it's favour.

    Addendum:
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    And i can feel in your answer that i don't deserve my rank on the board because i'm using a trick like the select-boost ?
    You deserve your spot. Where have you got this from my previous post? Admittedly you are better than I at SpeedLap.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    I play wipeout since the first game was released on the psx and i finished all the wipeout games at 100 % because this franchise is the only one racer for me.
    Has nothing to do with this. The fact that you played any game that ever existed doesn't change anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    So i don't care of your opinion on how to play the game.
    Or anyone else's? Why post this thread then?
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    Are you the official referee ? Or the supreme expert of speedlaps and how it must be played ?
    [...]
    You're kinda young to give me lessons, you know !
    Ad hominem, I expected better. But really I am not so surprised anymore, considering what you said to every single pilot other than pirhapac above, that they should "simply give up" if they weren't able to do the trick, something many people have already admitted to in this very thread. So you heard it people, give up.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    You suppose i'm not a fair player wich use a glitch right, and my anulpha's laps have nothing to do with racing or lines.
    Again, I have no idea where you got this. I said I disagreed with the use of the trick, not the rest of the lap. Learn to read please. And nowhere, absolutely nowhere, did I target you or pirhapac about using this technique, I merely said I disagree with it's use and explained why.
    Quote Originally Posted by leungbok View Post
    You first have to learn how to respect others opinion like Jabberjaw do even if he disagree.
    I respect opinions. You think it's a valid technique, I don't. That's it, we're done according to your first post and my first post.
    But now you come over with ad hominem attacks on my person, and you talk to me about respect? You tell everyone who can't master the trick to give up, and you talk to me about respect?
    You should host your own comedy show. Except it would be very sad instead of funny.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Enfield, North London, UK
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    SaturnReturn
    Posts
    2,828

    Default

    I don't know what the mario exploit is. But if it skips the whole level and therefore gives a faster time, then it's something very different. Leungbok still has to carry out the rest of the lap. He still has to do everything else very well for this to be of any benefit. People keep saying that it doesn't matter that it's difficult to do. Well I think it does. The implication from some people seems to be that this time isn't deserved. If leungbok discovered this by accident and it sent him straight to number one with a ludicrous time of say 2 seconds, then that would be very different. But the time he achieved still requires all the same skills as the rest of the game, and in fact, an extra level of effort just to give him that extra edge (much like many of the shortcuts). He's skipped nothing, he's hacked nothing, he's cheated nothing. It's the fact that it requires, e.g. control, reflex, patience, and a near perfect lap (the same as ever) that makes this a deserved time, and as such not comparable to these other exploits.

    If people don't like the fact that the trick is there, then that's fine, but I don't think anyone can be blamed for using....no, not using it, rather achieving it, now that it is.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    USA
    Timezone
    GMT -6
    PSN ID
    Ceiu
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Hrmm... clever trick. Though, it's pretty obvious the developers didn't intend for it to be used like this.

    Personally, I don't like it. It removes an aspect of skill from the game itself in favor of explicit knowledge of an exploit and the ability to utilize it.
    Being remotely competitive in speed-lap/time trial was hard enough when you had to figure out each shortcut and the optimal place to use your boost; but that was part of the game itself -- knowing the tracks well enough to run them faster than anyone else.
    Now, we're adding the arms race of who can exploit a convenience feature for the most gain at the start. Sure, right now it's just two boosts on selected tracks, but I'm pretty sure you could pull off three boosts on Moa forward and skip the first hairpin entirely. And, I'm even more sure that with enough time, someone will find other spots and better executions of the b-s-b trick.

    I've seen several points argued on this topic and, really, it's like comparing apples to oranges. No one can deny that the exploit itself requires skill and is entertaining to watch. However, it's also clearly not how the game was intended to work.
    Darkdrium brought up a great point about the glitch he found that let him get ridiculous times on Sebenco. According to the argument for the b-s-b exploit, his trick should be OK too -- It's how the game was programmed to work, so why not use it? Because it's too easy to use or because the advantage it grants is too great? Tch... bullshit excuses, in my opinion. It should be all-or-nothing. Either use every exploit and glitch to your advantage, or play a clean game the way it was (obviously) meant to be played.

    The real unfortunate part about this is that the "bug" will be tough to fix at this point. Not from a development standpoint, mind you, but from a political one. If SL patches it now, players could opt not to update for the sole purpose of retaining use of this trick; which puts players who update at a severe disadvantage as far as speed-laps go, almost requiring that future updates retain this functionality (and, worse yet, almost validating the dumbass excuses people make advocating it's use).


    Bah, whatever. The end result, regardless of the amount of ranting I do, is that speed lap just lost any entertainment value it once had. Why bother competing when the only way to keep up is to find ways to exploit the game's programming?

    ...sigh...
    I suppose I should take solace in the fact that it won't effect actual multiplayer races.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Montréal
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    Darkdrium777
    Posts
    4,553

    Default

    Yes Saturn, as I said I didn't talk about the rest of the lap because I find it valid, something leungbok had not picked up on when he uses his ad hominem fallacies. I am perfectly fine with the rest of the lap, IMO (In My Opinion) the rest of the lap is how the game should be played.

    However, boost select boost is still arguable. It was introduced in 1.30, which means that times like the one obtained in leungbok's video would have been impossible to reach. That alone makes it a big enough problem. If you (general you, the reader, not specifically you Saturn) are incapable of seeing the dilemma I think there is a problem with how you will view this discussion.

    Personally, as I've said, I disagree with the use, mainly because it is an unintended use of something introduced recently. That's it.
    Others are free to disagree, as I've said. However others are not free to attack me, insult me or talk about my age.
    Or demotivate others under my watch. You've seen what happened to Infaxsu.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •