What do you think?

[LOUDandPROUD]

Im just irked that some people cap themselves at Rapier. They straight up stop there. and dont try to even go to Phantom because its "too hard". This is straight up laziness in my eyes (You may not share the same opinion).

Wow... Whether they practice or not, some people just don't have the skill to compete on faster speed classes and that's no fault of their own. How do you know they haven't tried Phantom and just didn't find it fun for one reason or another? Or maybe they can race Phantom just fine, but prefer slower speed classes for any number of reasons? For that matter, why the heck do you care and what business is it of yours really? They paid for the game and they can race on whatever class they want. There are reasons SL provided different speed classes to race on and one of them is because what one person may enjoy, another may not.

but these Rapier and Flash players that think they are all that because they know how to press "fire" with a turbo makes me sick

Again, wow... What an ignorant slap in the face to so many pilots that are skilled in those speed classes. Yes, SKILLED. I disagree completely with your main statement, as well as with the majority of your other comments and opinions on this. :-

[Vartazian]

Your Clearly Angry Loud.

but You havent really adressed my point about the turbo. I have had a few people message me saying they are Amazingly better then me at this game all because htey got a few lucky turbos. And they decide to rub it in my face.

PErhaps a few rotten apples have hindered my opinion on the General "Rapier and Flash" community. I admit I know a few Rapier racers that are Pheonominal at phantom (Like my Partner Connavar who can mop the floor with me almost any day he wants.) and I give them the salute. if they prefer to race on Rapier Kudos to them Its fun for them.

Its those Rotten apples so to say that really Hamper my thoughts on the Community.

@ JJ. Sorry IRL for me means "In Real Life" as pertaining to my Immediate friends. in Canada. Sorry for the Confusion.

[JJohnEames]

No worries Vart, you weren't to know it meant that aswell.

[LOUDandPROUD]

Ok then, to address your turbo sentiments, sure, they may provide a greater advantage on slower speed classes when you get one (or more), but that doesn't mean those speed classes take no skill. It might be a different type or level of skill, but it's skill nonetheless.

And yah, though I primarily race Phantom now, I still race on slower speed classes from time to time and I have plenty of friends here that do too. So, yes, this thread did strike a nerve with me, as you could tell.

I think you're right in saying that a few rotten apples have hindered your opinion on the general "Rapier and Flash" community...if you're letting them affect you in that way though, then they've won the mental war. Don't let them win...just brush it off, bro.

[crawdad62]

I just don't get this at all. If you'd said "I prefer the sheer speed and piloting skill of Phantom racing over the weapons/boost strategies of the lower speed classes" then I could see your point. I wouldn't necessarily agree but at least I could see your take on the situation. But when you say that it takes no skill to race Rapier et al then in the same breath you say that when the host changes to Phantom you start to win? Why the heck can't you win these "inferior" races? You'd think you'd win those too. Especially since they're so beneath you. What? It's because boost plays into those more so? Well then you better learn it because it sounds like you're not winning too much.

I actually think playing in Venom is rather hard. In fact I made a post about it here. Why? You're timing's all off. You can't BR where you could in Phantom. You (I) can't make corners as easily since the turn-in is so much further into the corner than at faster speeds, etc. etc.

But anyway it's your opinion and you're welcome to it. However it's in rather poor taste to present it in the way you did. If you're good you're going to come out on top (or close to it) regardless of the speed class. If you're not coming out on top maybe you might race a little more in those lowly speed classes and you may even garner some respect for the pilots that race them regularly.

[blackwiggle]

I found that the Flash & Rapier speed classes are just as hotly contested as the upper realms of the Phantom league.

You get your specialists at their preferred speed ,and they can be just as hard to beat as a Wellington or Wotan.

[RedScar]

Anything below Phantom, the race is almost 100% decided in the first lap with the remaining laps for the one or two close battles remaining. I've fought my way back from 7/8th to 3rd in two laps on a phantom race without any turbos, not possible on anything lower. I enjoy phantom and even though I am not the best at the speed, so I will stick with it.

[Avenger2197]

I don't agree with you Vartazian, not completely anyway. I feel that although slower the Rapier, Flash, and Venom classes are harder than Phantom. It's not so terribly easy to recover from heavy weapon hits, or when you just plain screw up your line. When racing fellow Zoners that whole " Fly perfect, or die trying" aspect of the game seems to be amplified at slower speeds.

Connavar said it best, good players will be good no matter the class of speed.

As per the "luck" arguement, that is just one part of the strategy involved at the lower classes. No race is winnable, unless you make it so. Anyone can fire off a turbo, but those who know how to use it properly can win no matter what.

Just my 2 cents.

[Connavar]

I agree with many replies, especially LOUDandPROUD, I'm gonna say what he
said to emphasize it: Vartazian you're a great pilot no doubt, tons of potential,
but there are pilots who are just not as good to handle Phantom, or they the
simply don't like it, so they're racing Rapier for FUN. Myself I had been racing
Rapier for a few months, I started Phantom recently, I took my time.

I respect that you like Phantom only, great for you, because you'll progress
even more quickly on it, just don't look down on other pilots enjoying the game.

See you soon online

[Firedshot]

I think that you should take a look at the top pilots connavar's website for each class and challenge them to a race in that class and then make the statment if you win! To be honest with you i think it's all about racing style, i don't race phantom i have how ever got the trophies for phantom elite etc and i just can't stand it!

To be honest the best Wipeout player would be some one that can beat the field no matter what class there racing in!

[lunar]

I just race for fun, If i set good times or win races thats just a bonus. Playing this way reduces the stress by tenfold.

Absolutely. I do play to win, or at least to do as well as I can, because that`s what you have to aim for when you`re on the start line, but if I`m not in the mood for Phantom because I`m tired, drunk, stressed or just don`t feel like being at 100% then I`ll happily race Rapier, or any speed if I`m out of it enough. I just like racing. If there was no skill involved below Phantom class then the better and more experienced pilots would not mostly win at slower speeds. But they do mostly win at slower speeds. If I`m not winning at Rapier against people not from wipeout zone there`s no point me just saying they are noobs having a good run of luck with turbos. I need to get faster and up my game! Phantom class is where weapon luck probably has the least effect, but it also depends on the track. I think weapon luck is certainly more of a factor on Moa Therma Flash than it is on Sebenco Reverse Phantom, and is more likely to swing a win for the less experienced player, but on any speed there`s plenty you can do to win a race by being quicker and plenty of ways to increase skill and speed, I think.

[IH8YOU]

Everyone keeps looking at weapons as if they're only luck - they're not. And that is precisely why I enjoy the slower classes so much more. TACTICS play a massive role in Flash - holding that quake until they're about to jump over a gap - so they fall down it - that's as much skill as cornering in Phantom. Because you still have to corner, and you have to be aware of who's around you - knowing how your weapon will influence them.

Lest we all forget the no-weapons option in the races - so if you want to see who has the cleanest lines - just toggle that on.

All this said - no matter what class, race style (speed lap, multiplayer, ect...) I'm always lagging behind Connavar in the top 10s.

So the best pilots - generally speaking - always do come out on top.

[SaturnReturn]

I entered a room (of 8 ) 6 were goteki. Does that not Show that thrust makes a Huge difference in a race? This was mereley an Observation.

I'm in a flash room and there are 4 Icaras, 2 piranha, one triakis, and then there's me. I'm in Mirage and I came second in the first race and first in the second race. At one point I had to wait on moa therma to fire rockets. I needed the perfect angle to hit the guy way in front. I'd say it took skill to do that and it was fun when I succeeded. EDIT: Also, I was competitive throughout on whatever track. As the Mirage is an all-rounder, I'd say I can't put decent results down to being particularly thrusty, or particularly fast. I didn't get lots of speed boosts either so I wouldn't put it down to that. So I'd like to think that some level of skill was involved. There were times when the winner got lots of boosts and finished 5 or more seconds ahead, but that can also happen easily in phantom anyway. Overall, based on this limited experience, I'd say flash and rapier are just like phantom, but slower, although not actually all that much slower in the case of rapier.

P.S. Goteki-45 FTW

[rushin]

pfft, what a load of bollocks!!

Not everyone has the reflexes of a 16 year old on speed. I was awesome at phantom 10 years ago playing WO3. these days not so much. If i played 20 hrs a week i would be more competitive, but its a game not a job. I get a lot more enjoyment racing at rapier thanks very much.

I take it your rant is due to the fact you cant find enough phantom races going on? Or you are just amazingly arrogant? Hopefully its the first one, but its still no reason to berate everyone playing at lower speed classes o_o

get over yourself mate.

[Lance]

Here in this thread we see the result of claims stated with an excess of certainty based on analyses too shallow and narrow and likewise a failure to consider that different people have different standards. Such claims are fire waiting to happen. But at least he asked "What do you think?". Got answers, too.

I find that less colourful and pungent language used in opinions tends to result in less anger in response. Please consider this in future posting.

Note this example of how nOt to communicate here: http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpos...&postcount=983

[SaturnReturn]

Such claims are fire waiting to happen....words...I find that less colourful and pungent language used in opinions tends to result in less anger in response.

(Flame away peeps)

I think that was the whole point.

[Lance]

Not on this forum.

[Vartazian]

The Flame away was mereley a sign that I wasnt going to Respond to people who straight up attack me. (I guess my Sarcasm doesnt follow through to non American / Canadian people so well, I guess thats my bad)

The way I look at it is. As long as people remain Civilized (Which they have) a sensitive topic can be discussed. Since the Insults Havent really flown yet (and Im doing my best to disarm fights as I see them begin) we can still discuss the topic.

I hope this is okay Lance. I have already apologized for my vulgar comment in the original post. but I dont want to edit the post so that people entering the thread arent confused at what has hapened or has been said. I like to offer that priviledge to everyone who reads this thread.

Hopefully someone would be willing to read the entire thread before chastising me for my opinion.

I feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion so thats why I said "Go ahead and flame me for my opinion"

Just thought I would offer a little insight on my opinion on the matter. Look at is as you wish Lance. Just proving Im not just some butt-hurt noob

[blackwiggle]

I Nu what U Wur talKg AbuT....

Who Am I kidding?

I wouldn't have clue what the vast majority of posts from the "Text u mufer" generation are on about.
I think even Lance would have to agree with that.

At least you [Vartazian] have grasped the basics of grammar, and can express yourself without dropping to a idiots mobile phone means to express ones opinion.

The position regarding the different speed classes you have opined,has,actually left you little room to maneuver.
But I do get the gist of your argument.

If I agree or disagree ,matters not.

[KGB]

Just proving Im not just some butt-hurt noob

Out of interest, why do you need to prove your not a butt-hurt noob (whatever that is).

And whats wrong with being one anyway (whatever it is).

Some of my best friends may be butt-hurt noobs for all I know.