What do you think?

[Vartazian]

My Statement: Anything below Phantom Takes no Skill

To be Competitive that is.

I find that the problem with Racing Rapier and Flash is that It far too thrust / Turbo Reliant.

In Phantom you can pull of barrell rolls in places where its impossible to without a turbo in the other race classes. Which means I think there are good racers stuck in the (Ill call it FL and RA classes from now on) FL and RA classes.

For instance. I was Racing Altregorr (I hope I spelled the name right) and a Single rocket hit placed him second to last for 3 races in a row. I felt bad. (I didnt firethe rockets) and I know hes a Substatially better Racer then that (He can go toe to toe with me on Phantom).

I entered a room (of 8 ) 6 were goteki. Does that not Show that thrust makes a Huge difference in a race? This was mereley an Observation.

A single turbo in RA or lower can place you position at LEAST 4 seconds ahead of the person behind you (and it doesnt help when the person gets multiple ones in a row) PErsonally. I think Turbos should be Disabled in RA and lower. (Flame away peeps). Not too mention The Corners on RA/FA are a complete JOKE. A Retarded monkey could take those corners no problem.

I Hate how everyone I know is stooping down to rapier class. Theres almost Never any phantom rooms when im on. its about 5 Rapier an 2 flash whenever I log on.

So what are your thought on lower speeds?

Sorry for my "Rant" I just like posting evidence why I Dislike certain things.

PS: Oh yeah this only applies to online by the way. Setting times on Rapier and Flash is hard and I respect people who do it.

[mangaroo]

I like to race at rapier because i just find it more relaxing then at phantom which stresses the hell out of me with weapons {also im terrible}

[BlochNWhitey]

I have to agree, the only speed other Phantom that I've raced online is Rapier, and it was nearly completely reliant on the random turbos and overall thrust of the craft you're racing. Not to mention weapons. ;P

I used to race Rapier online when there weren't any Phantom races online, now if there aren't any I just default to offline Phantom singleraces.

[stinkleroy]

Wow that's a pretty ambiguous statement there. One which I wholly disagree with. I think that you are a little arrogant in you choice of words, if you were to say 'those speed classes easier than phantom' - yes, but to state that a retarded monkey could fly these speeds is just insulting. I have respect for the top pilots at every speed level as it takes dedication and skill to get there.

[Seraphim1982]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Vart. I normally race flash or rapier class and I notice a significant skill difference between the players. The corners are easier, I definitley agree with that but that makes the line taken so much more important, so often do I start at the back of the grid on anulpha pass and all seven of my opponents take the first corner around the outside while I take it on the inside and come out in front of everyone (and then get a missile up my exhaust pipe lol).

I do venture into phantom class every now and then and I can hold my own against those who race regularly there but it requires so much of my concentration it often feels like work. I stick to the lower speed classes because it's enjoyable for me and thats the whole reason I bought the game.

[IDReaper]

I don't think I follow you 100% on this one. I race flash with Motorsagmannen and VinnyMonster from time to time and I will agree on the turbo/weps part to a certain degree. But I still think there is a certain degree of skill involved as far as planning BR since they are more difficult and cutting down your line as slim as possible. It is more deliberate and strategy focused, albiet easier to handle. The rockets/missile/bomb thing happens to me in Phantom too btw(I'm really unlucky TT). My preference is still Phantom because hard practice and timing prevails. Don't judge the Goteki user for being down with flash XD.

[JJohnEames]

Interesting tread Vart. I would agree with you that turbos make or break races on flash or rapier but i think that flash and rapier can be quite difficult as much more people can race those speeds making it much more compititive. I dont think that because someone races on a lower speed makes them a worse player, they just might like that speed class.

P.S. Does no one race for the sheer joy of it anymore? I just race for fun, If i set good times or win races thats just a bonus. Playing this way reduces the stress by tenfold.

[crawdad62]

Just about every reason you give for how the lower classes of "no skill" is exactly why I think they do take skill. You have to use a lot more skill to plan out BR's. Weapon pickups and Speed Pads are critical.

I'm not particular with any class. I race them all. I suppose if I could race any room I wanted (and not what was presented to me) it would be Rapier or Phantom but I've had a blast racing in Venom too. In fact a couple of days ago I raced in a room with a great host that had PA off, kept switching tracks, had a full room and great racers and it was Venom. I'd rather race that than the few Phantom rooms that were there with PA on and a bunch of pilots smashing their way around the track. But hey I'm probably not up to your skill level.

[pirahpac]

omg! who are u varzatian for talk like this??u talk about ur skill on phantom ? really? where,?first time i see ur name here ..cuz on any leaderboards i cant see ur name..so= lol , shut up plz and dont critic other players who play that classes.... (one week again for me ?)

[KGB]

In your own inimitable style pirahpac, you are kind of right.

You will annoy a lot of people with threads like this Varty, good luck!

[Connavar]

I disagree, damn...
It takes less skills online, but that's only because the majority of top pilots
are racing Phantom:

1) You can do tons of BRs in venom/flash/rapier, they are not as easy to pull
out as in Phantom but they're doable

2) Corners are easier to take, but a good player will take them better an cut
a lot of time

3) Turbos are useful in every class, give me 5 turbos and I'll win you about
any race in Phantom

So basically, the better player wins, I've had some really close and good races
in Flash and Rapier. I tell you if Phantom didn't exist then you would say:
Rapier is where the skill's at, because a lot more good pilots would be racing
it.

[Darkdrium777]

I will agree on the fact that Venom, Flash and Rapier are more and more, as you go down the scale, reliant on luck (turbo) and thrust, especially against members of this forum right here (Because we all get the boost start and the speed pads with perfect laps).
And I won't dignify a host with my presence if he's a complete twit and sneak-changes speed class just before starting the race. ****ing idiot. I enter Phantom because I want to race Phantom, not because I want to race Flash for crying out loud.
Not that I would really mind racing Venom or Flash if I enter the room labelled as such, because it is still WipEout, but I generally race Phantom exclusively because I appreciate the challenge level and because I can.

However, as far as the no-skill argument goes, it is in my opinion incorrect. Venom is considerably slower for us, thus easier in terms of racing (going around corners, etc.) but saying it takes no skill is incorrect. It still requires some time invested and some skills developed to be able to go around corners at Venom speed (Some people have trouble with Venom, I feel it is required that we try and help them as much as we can)
I respect any and all pilot who has enough drive behind them to keep playing the game no matter what happens to them one day on the track (I noticed Japanese pilots where very dedicated, for example; not really surprising I think but it's good for them). This is what it takes to master WipEout, by showing they want to it's very cool
All the others who stop on weapon pads and try as much as you can to mess up the race for everyone else, GTFO. They don't want to invest the time to develop the required skills so no respect from me to them.


Sorry for the included rants

[crawdad62]

All the others who stop on weapon pads and try as much as you can to mess up the race for everyone else, GTFO.

I guess I've got to knock on wood. I've heard people talking about these jerks doing that but I've never encountered it. And I'm glad too. I have had the last second room changers though. Usually if you watch the room will be set and they'll more often than not change ships. You can pretty much brace yourself for a whole different race than what was set at the beginning.

[komatos]

My biggest problem with Phantom (and even Rapier on some harder tracks and all of the Reverse versions), besides the fact that I tend to wall bounce because there's no PS3 NegCon is that, with the new 1.30 patch, the lags tend to be harder to correct afterwards. On Venom or Flash, if you get a 1/2 second - 2 second "hiccup" you can still correct your line. On Rapier and Phantom, most likely by the time the game catches up from the network lag you've slammed yourself into the next corner's wall.

[Vartazian]

It seems that We are split down the middle on this topic.

Maybe My Comment about the "Retarded Monkey" was a little too brash (But hey my IRL friends have the Intelligence of them and they can take the corners )

So I apologize to anyone I may of offended with that comment however. my Point still stands.

PErhaps Im just a bit Biased because of the MANY MANY times that I have raced Rapier then when the host changes to phantom and I start to win Most of the races I recieve Countless PM's Calling me a noob, and how Rapeir is the way to go.

Maybe it is also because I race to win and constantly strive to become the best I can be, So when Pirahpac's Comment about me not topping the leaderboards comes in, it just makes me want to Hit the top even more. Ive got quite a few top 10 in MP and SL/TT. so just because im not number one doesnt mean I dont know how to race. (If you want Pirapac I can make a phantom game and we can have a few races. just to prove my point you may win but its just to show that im not some noob coming in and stirring the pot.)

Im just irked that some people cap themselves at Rapier. They straight up stop there. and dont try to even go to Phantom because its "too hard". This is straight up laziness in my eyes (You may not share the same opinion).

I hold the Phantom Racers that have #1 Records in the Highest regard and I hope one day I might be able to reach that Apex of being #1, but these Rapier and Flash players that think they are all that because they know how to press "fire" with a turbo makes me sick.

@ Connavar. Yes FIVE turbos in Phantom may make it unfair but ONE in Rapier gives you an Insurmountable lead. You might as well just put your controller down.

[IH8YOU]

Vartizan - your comments have burned me.

I don't race phantom because I enjoy Flash and Rapier more. Am I lazy? Far from it. I start pulling down 9 plus BRs a lap on Sebenco in flash - each lap (unassisted by boosts) - and that makes me lazy? In Phantom, all you need to do is nose up, and you can do a BR almost on-call.

Any pilot who races a particular speed class WILL dominate in it - I know pilots who race slower speed classes - that you'd smite them on Phantom, but they would wipe the deck with you on their turf.

I don't see you much on the top 10s in Rapier, Flash or Venom - yet you look down on those classes?

[Vartazian]

Your taking my words out of Context IH8. I race Rapier In fact I race all speeds. and the Generalization that I have made that is Phantom is the hardest... And I race it the most.

What erks me is the fact that there is A huge surplus of Rapier rooms and that nobody is even trying to race phantom. hell put on PA if you need it.

If you dont think Im top 10 in any. Metropia - Rapier - Speed Lap. ( I havent checked recently but I was #6 or something a while ago)

People seem to think im not talking about Offline. Offline is a completley different story.

[JJohnEames]

[QUOTE=Vartazian;123851]It seems that We are split down the middle on this topic.

Maybe My Comment about the "Retarded Monkey" was a little too brash (But hey my IRL friends have the Intelligence of them and they can take the corners )

@ Vartizan : What the hell is this supposed to mean? Are you calling irish people retarded monkeys? Explaination please.

[Vartazian]

Nah. My Friends are retarded monkeys. They PLay Rapier. I was making a crack at my Dumb friends. Maybbbe I shoulda been more clear

[JJohnEames]

Lol. IRL stands for The republic of Ireland hence the confusion.