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Thread: PS3 NeGcon - Can it be done???

  1. #11
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    motorsagmannen
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    a bit off topic but:
    speaking of wheel i tried my logitech G25 wheel with WO-HD some time ago, sadly i couldnt change the buttons so throttle management went out of the picture (throttle was on the x button above the gear lever, so my plan to use paddles on the wheel to airbrake also evaporated), even though it is a state of the art equipment for GT-5.
    the steering looked like it worked fine but without the opportunity to remap it, the wheel was kinda pointless

  2. #12
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    A bit?

    ----------

    Al, on WO3, I generally used 30 to forty. On WO1, I sometimes maxed at 175, but gradually cut it more and more to 90 and 70 [last I remember]. XL, umm.. about 15, I think.

  3. #13
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    Okay - using a PS1/PS2 to USB adapter (a cheap, POS one) it functioned out of the box, as-is on all but the analogue BUTTONS (not the pivot, that worked for some reason)

    L1, [] and X did not work, though. It's a ROYAL PITA to use in-game with HD, because you cannot access the PS menu, or even navigate ANY menu in game. In order to use it, you need to unplug the adapter, turn on a PS3 controller, select your ship, track, and start the game. Then once the game is about to start (during the count down) you need to set the PS3 controller to #2, and then power it down. Immediately after that, you plug in the USB/NeGcon adapter - and you can play providing you can live without your left airbrake, thrust and fire buttons. FWIW, I did try it on Zone mode - and it worked pretty well - except that movement was EXTREME to register anything at all in-game. (I chalk this up to no driver support - so default value is minimal response)

    The PS3 controllers buttons (all of them except for Start, Select and PS button) are ALL analogue (pressure-sensitive) - they change resistance as more pressure is applied. It's no different than the older membrane-type switches - except they were looking for digital signal overall - all that was done to change these membrane-type switches to "analogue" was to round the contact pads off - so that light pressure results in less contact area across the forks - creating a higher resistance. This higher resistance is "seen" as an analogue value. Press harder on the button, and more contact area is applied - lowering the resistance - which is "seen" as a stronger analogue value.

    Knowing this - and the fact that the buttons in the NeGcon are membrane-type (except for the L1, [] and X) - they should be directly compatible. (Dpad, R1, T, O)

    As for the analogue sticks on the PS3 controller - those are 2 axis potentiometers on a spring pivot - you have an X pot and a Y pot - as you move around, the resistance changes relative to angular position - which is "seen" as an analogue signal.

    The NeGcon used this type of method long before the PS controller ever had sticks - the Twist mechanism, L1, [] and X all have a potentiometer attached. The buttons use a spring and rail - as you depress them, a cog on the pot registers the movement. The twist mechanism has a cog coupled to the pivoting axis of the controller. The twist mechanism I'm going to simply couple into the X-axis of the left analogue stick of the PS3 controller.

    As for the NeGcon analogue buttons - those I'm still deciding how to tackle. I'm going to power up my PS3 controller and measure the values seen across L1, [] and X at "idle" and at full-pressure. I'm going to compare those values to the potentiometers in the same locations on the NeGcon. if they're ballpark, I'll either shunt or series them with fixed resisters to get the value exact. My other option could be to replace the pots with pots of a better match, OR to replace the pots in those locations with membrane-type switches.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    d4onps
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    Wow, impressive work mate, keep it up, I hope it works out. If you do manage to get it working fully, would you consider converting mail-ins?

  5. #15
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    WolfKill01
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    ...I'm sorry, but i can't imagine why someone would want to rip apart a perfectly good controller. Though i suppose you have you have a pretty good reason. Good luck with your project. I hope you get it to work.

  6. #16
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    Absolute worst-case scenario - I can restore both controllers to their as-built configuration.

    Next - this NeGcon had some SERIOUS mileage/wear, and some sticky fluid, to boot. (buttons got stuck down a lot)

    My PS3 controller IS fubar - though I tolerated it for a long while - it's about time I try to get a functional controller out of it - and if I can't - probably better to have it scrapped entirely. (D-pad L and R also triggers up and down at random - painfully obvious when trying to enter text)

    Anyhow - the NeGcon feels so much better in my hands - and if I can work it with the PS3 - could be very fun to use.

  7. #17
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    (formally known as zer0shen) N.Z.
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    Cool

    (sorry guys this might sound like a lotta dribble for mosta you so you might not want to delve into this one)

    I can't believe I Missed this thread, I've chalked up many ideas for a PS2(long time ago)/PS3 neGcon type controller to work with any game, me sucking at electronics(failed the half year I did of it at school) I tried swapping the potentiometer from the neGcon into the left sticks R/L pot
    this didn't work to well at all
    and since I bought a few broken DSII's to muck about with I cut one right down the middle and came to the conclusion that it was way more comfortable having swivelling DS then to use a neGcon (a harsh truth for me)

    from what I can tell the DS3 board is pretty small, so I figure just move the board as far as you can inside the controller to the left so it's half sitting under the D-Pad then cut the DS3 in half but not straight down the middle, cut right down the centre of the of the Start button, in this cut will be transplanted the neGcon Swivel bit or what I'd do would be to try to jam in a Ball Bearing with the left sticks x-axis pot inside it in their

    to me this seems allot easier than transplanting the innards into a neGcon, if I were to do a transplant I would probably be to lazy
    I'd just rip out the innards from a sixaxis, cram them into a tiny black plastic box, strap that to my left wrist and wire all the inputs from the box into the neGcons cord
    not very elegant but it would get the job done

    -zer0shen out

    (PS about the range of motion, I thought allot about that, two things: you could try and find a Pot with the same input range that has a great range of motion or use a couple cogs to lengthen out the motion)
    Last edited by BulletWraith; 3rd May 2009 at 07:57 AM. Reason: grammer(though not all mistakes are not fixed I tried)

  8. #18
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    Zer0 - I came to many of the same thoughts and conclusions you have (even with relocating the mainboard inside the DS3 and sawing / installing a bearing assembly)

    But - after having my hands on a NeGcon - my GOD do they feel good! I'm a d-pad guy, and this d-pad is big, fat and accurate. Everything the PS d-pad is not.

    Then having a precision analogue steering input for the fine lines you don 't want to decelerate on - it's MADE for Wipeout. Wish I actually sought one out back in the days of Psygnosis - as it was all over the Wipeout documentation.

    Anyhow - today is plot values of my DS3 day. Going to fire up the o-scope, DMM and start button mashing. Depending on my results - will determine how I'm going to use the analogue L1, S and X buttons.

    *holds breath*

  9. #19
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    Talking

    couple quick thoughts

    about the d-dap I fully agree, lol one of my sketches places the neGcons D-pad into the DS3, yesterday I was looking at Fighting game pads made for the PS3 to see if I could locate one with a good D-pad for conversion options, I hear great things about the Madcats Streetfighter pad but also negative stuff about its reliability

    you might have seenmy lame concept for a new neG ages ago
    I think it would work really well as it would get the sixaxis sensor centred and controllable whilst steering

    if anyone has broken Black neG's they should send them your way, if mine ever karks it it's yours

    it's so nice finding someone on a similar wavelength but with the proper knowledge and tools to do the ideas justice
    perhaps you've intercepted some of the thought's I've been puking into the cosmic either


    ahh one more thing about the DS3 over a neGcon, the force feedback is another reason I would use a DS3, not much room for the lil motor's in the neG, I find the feedback provides an important element in immersion into what I'm playing



    sorry another thing
    ever thought of gutting a Hori Zerotech for the parts? they're ace!


    good day to you sir
    -zershen
    Last edited by BulletWraith; 3rd May 2009 at 11:25 PM. Reason: wording

  10. #20
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    Project not dead - still working on it. Boss making me work tons of OT - speaking of - time to sleep, have work in 5 hours. Bah.

    I predict tomorrow will happen like this:
    : coffee

    After all that - PS3 controller time.

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