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Thread: Are the single race start locations random?

  1. #1
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    Default Are the single race start locations random?

    (I've done the best I can to search for any similar threads but can't find any so here goes. But should I have missed one then my apologies).

    Over my whole wipeout HD experience I have found myself to almost always be in one of the back starting positions. Not only is this generally annoying because that means I have to try and over take everyone! But also because all the ships with high thrust are almost always at the front of the pack and my Harimau is the slowest to start up (which pillock named this ship the indonesian name for 'Tiger'? Should be Slug).

    I was once told the start locations were random but I just dont think this is the case. I've tried hosting, connecting to a very close host, a far host, joining a game before anyonelse does.. Is it done by some sort of handicap? Does the race start you up in a reasonably close rank to that of your fastest multiplayer time compared to everyonelse's in the race? Or is it truely random and I'm just very unlucky? I spent about 18 races with Andybob and a few others tonight and out of those 18 I was in last starting position for 10 of them, 2nd from last for 4 of them and 3-4th for the rest.

    Can anyone explain why this is? Does anyonelse get a feeling of deja vu when they see themselves start in the same location again and again?

  2. #2
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    excellent thread, i still thinks its random placements although you were having a tough time at the back of the pack! Only time i saw you at the front was in my last tourney when i plasma'd ya and left you last thus next, u were first haha lol.
    The only time being at the back is when you get hoggers/rammers/lamers or woteva.. meaning you waste laps trying to overtake, by that time you'll never catch a fast player!

  3. #3
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    I'm pretty sure it's random. I've gotten first position several times in a row against the likes of you and Wellington as well as against players who have no reason to be even thinking about phantom yet. Also, it changes from race to race regardless of where you are in the room list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenix
    But also because all the ships with high thrust are almost always at the front of the pack and my Harimau is the slowest to start up (which pillock named this ship the indonesian name for 'Tiger'? Should be Slug).
    Use one of the boats for a week (Piranha, Qirex, Triakis, etc) and then switch back to Harimau and enjoy your new-found appreciation of the thrust it has.
    Even if I get a perfect start from the first position, I start the race in dead last. Hell, I don't think I've ever once gotten the first weapon pad in an online race. But, it also means I'm usually not taking the first missile/rocket hit as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by andybob35 View Post
    The only time being at the back is when you get hoggers/rammers/lamers or woteva.. meaning you waste laps trying to overtake, by that time you'll never catch a fast player!
    Which is one of the main reasons things like pilot assist shouldn't be allowed in rapier or phantom class. All it does is pampers players who (realistically) shouldn't be playing at those classes yet and screws up any player who happens to get stuck behind them. As you said, by the time you DO get around them, any other decent player already has a commanding lead. But this is a discussion for another thread.

  4. #4
    yeldar2097's Avatar
    yeldar2097 is offline WipEout HD Cup - Quarter Finalist Veteran Pilot
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    good question. i always thought it might be something to do with what ship you were in or what order you joined the host in. actually i had lots of theries. i don't know if it's to do with times though because i've started behind many a person who is significantly quicker than me. maybe its a combination of things. if its random you're pretty unlucky to always find yourself at the back, especially if there's a G45 at the front.

  5. #5

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    I find it annoying when you start at the back every time. even more so when your racing some one that is good and they start at the front and you've got to get around all the cannon fodder in between and then the next race it does the same thing again!

    When Studio Liverpool done F1 game they aloud you to choose starting postions from either random or where your ranked for that track. That would better to have the choice!

    Also why is when you pick Harimau and the women says the name it always makes me think of sweets?

  6. #6
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    I'm sure its random, I'm not sure how they could do it any other way.

    I guess all the players could race a qualifying lap (all at the same time with the other contestants ships showing up as ghosts) to decide the grid position, but I think this would be unnecessarily laborious.

  7. #7
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    Being in a Goteki at the front of the grid sucks because I feel everyone is staring at me, knowing I`ve got all the good cards and they`re expecting to see a performance!! It puts me under pressure. I prefer to be 2nd/3rd on the grid then let them feel my Goteki Powah!!TM

    For the first corner or two anyway, then it`s only gentlemanly to fall off the track and give them a chance.

    I`m not sure of the single race grid assignments, but in a session I seem to be always near the front or always near the back for the whole time I`m in the room. I get the same feeling as you Greenix, sometimes, but I do think it`s just luck and I know in my case I notice all my bad luck, but see my good luck as just a natural state of affairs and don`t notice it much when I get it, apart from that slot 1 on the grid, which is too much good luck sometimes!

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    It's entirely random. Although you may very well be unlucky.

    In tournaments though, the first one to come in starts last, and the last one to come in starts first (And the people who left before him).

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    I do think this is entirely random to be honest. I find myself starting at the back quite regularly, but combat that usually by taking the tightest line off the starting grid (only really works for me on Vineta K, AP and Moa Therma, maybe Chengou) Most people will head straight for the first weapons pad whereas I bypass it and take the tightest line, usually ending up in first. You risk getting shot, but this works 7/10 times for me.

  10. #10
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    Single race grid positions seem random to me too, but I mostly race tournaments now - That way I only have to wait for the lobby to fill up once every few races.

    I'm with Stinkleroy on the tight lines at the start, I've only really mastered that on Sebenco though, 9 times out of 10 I can start last and pick up the first weapon (why is it always a shield when I go over it, and mines or a bomb when I'm second?!).

    On Chenghou I go for the first and second speed pads when most people go for the weapons, it usually puts me in first and able to navigate the hard left without having fight the rest of the pack. If I'm in the middle of the bunch going around that corner I usually get squeezed into last place (I suspect a lot of people are using Pilot Assist ).
    Last edited by MarkXIII; 31st January 2009 at 10:08 AM.

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    I enjoy starting at the back - its the challenge and the fight that make the race worth while.

    I must be the only one who's disappointed when starting up front.

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    I don't mind starting at the back in online races - I know I've got a fighting chance - It's starting last in every race of an Elite Campaign tournament that gets my blood boiling.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the responses guys

    Seems the general oppinion is that it's random allocated.
    Ironically, after a few more races yesterday, I found that as soon as I changed my ship to Mirage, I was at the very front of the race track 4 times in row!
    Either I'm just surrounded with coincidences or maybe the ship you choose has an effect on the probability of where you start.

    @Cerium - I don't know if I could bear going to one of the tanks after being spolit by Harimau's handling..
    @Yeldar - especially when it's Wellington's G45!

    As a test, over the next 12 days or so I shall use a different team each night and record the averge start location and at the end see if I can find a correlation between your ship choice and the starting grid location....

  14. #14
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    i think you might be onto something here greenix. this weekend did a quick stint in the old harimau and i started in 7th-8th every time.
    when i switched to auricom i was at the front 2 races in a row and several more times after that !

  15. #15
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    Thanks yeldar, its not just me then - phew..
    So far:

    Harimau is ALWAYS at the back
    Mirage is quite often in the top 4
    Triakis seems to appear in the 4-6 range
    Feisar has a wider scope range of 3-7
    Goteki appears in the 1-5
    AG Sys is in 3-5 range
    EGX varies from 1-3 and 7-8

    Havent tested the others yet. But would these results appear to be what everyonelse finds who uses those ships?

  16. #16
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    IMO it's not so random but you already figured that out.

    Slightly off-topic: Esp. for myself competing the fastest racers on planet it's 100% OK that you are placed last in the grid when the lame ones (as it turns out I am ) are in the same race. At least we could see you for one short moment when you overtake us. I'd vote for an additional start-penalty of ~4s per Phantom race ... though, most of the time it's a pleasure racing the experienced WOHD pilots.

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    Not as a bragging system - but perhaps a pilot rating depending on where they place on average. (a pilot that is consistently in the top 50 times will have a specific logo next to their name, another for a top 250, and perhaps another for a newbie with less than X races or flying time)

    I enjoy racing the slower classes a LOT against good pilots - but I don't like destroying people who are new at it. This "rating" system could prevent this from happening, and make it more enjoyable on both ends.

    I wouldn't opt for a #1 or top 10 designator, because that's where it would become showing off or bragging, and could discourage others from competing.

    Maybe designate by game completion + game time? Similar to what Fusion did.

    By the way, 4 seconds at Phantom is an E T E R N I T Y! How about a 1.4 or 2 second delay? Sit at the start line for 4 seconds and feel the sweat start to bead up!

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    I had assumed they were random. But looking back through my vids from yesterday in the Feisar I wouldn't be surprised if the ship choice has an effect.

    Feisar starting positions: 4, 6, 4, 4, 3(only 6 racers), 4, 4, 4, 4, 7, 1

    Median average: 4, Mode average: 4, Mean average: 4 (1 s.f.)

    My conclusion:
    It's random!
    Last edited by SaturnReturn; 2nd February 2009 at 04:52 PM.

  19. #19
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    In my experience online I have never noticed certain types of ship usually starting ahead of other types (and I've played a fair bit ).

    What I think is happening is that the game is supposed to allocate positions randomly but the process it uses is not very effective. It seems to get stuck sometimes and keep repeating itself. During avalon on Saturday we started four straight races with everyone in exactly the same position (I was stuck in 7th each time in the Goteki). Similar starting lineups often happen. Sometimes I notice that the lineup is based upon the lineup of the previous race, but it's in exactly the opposite order. On an occasion yesterday, I kept getting good starting positions in the Goteki, and as soon as I changed to the Icaras I was getting put right at the back. But I have used both these ships a lot and I know that the Goteki certainly doesn't spend it's time starting at the front, and neither the Icaras at the back.

    I think when the game gets stuck and starts repeating itself, you can get out of the loop by changing ship. It doesn't matter which ship you are changing from or changing to. Changing tracks seems to break the loop as well, but less effectively.

    The problem reminds me a little of GTA when it generates a certain type of vehicle and even if it's a very rare vehicle there are suddenly loads more of that type around you.

  20. #20
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    Something is definitely wrong.
    I played a 12 race tournament today and the this is the starting positions results, I got:
    1, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8 ...





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