Lag

[KGB]

Hi all
I think i need an explanation about lag as i don't understand it in great detail myself.

Yesterday i was playing the elite AI in a tournament and getting hit by the usual barrage of missiles, rockets etc. But it seemed quite easy to make it into the lead and stay there. The weapons that were coming my way were a problem and they knocked me about a bit but it was manageable and i was easily able to maintain speed.

But today, when playing online i was getting knocked about left, right and center, if i hit one mine then i would slow right down, if someone hits me then i go slamming into a wall, ships seem to stick to me until we separate and then i would fly off in a completely wrong direction, a missile slows me down to a complete stop more or less.

It seems like a different game at times and I find it very annoying when I clash with pilots and always come off worse, then have to catch them up, try and pass them only for it to happen again.

It's been discused here on various different threads, and has been put down to internet connection speeds, can anyone enlighten me on this

[The Gracer]

Basically, lag is the delay between the PS3 and the server recieving information from eachother.

Obviously, if the server isnt recieving instruction on where you are in the race quickly enough, it cant accurately place you on the track, or if you arent recieving information fast enough, the PS3 cannot show your opponents exact position - simply because it doesnt know where they are yet!

You can liken lag to the delay in an overseas phonecall - lag is the time it takes for the other persons voice to reach you.

Im sure there are plenty of guides on how to maximise your connection as to reduce lag as much as possible - a google search will more than likely answer any questions you might have.

[SaturnReturn]

Perhaps Gracer's post did too good a job of explaining But as mentioned in the May Day Avalon thread, the lag issue pops up a lot. So maybe it would be good to discuss the issue here centrally and have a fuller discussion with everyone involved.

I'd be interested to hear how everyone here thinks lag manifests itself in the game. What do people think is lag and what is just to do with this mysterious "netcode" folks talk about.

A particular question I have is - why do crappy games with loads of ramming and vista pads seem to occur, only for more of the problems to go away, or at least reduce, if a new game is created. I mean, like, seriously, what's up with that? You know?

[KGB]

I'm interested to know what you mean Saturn by 'ramming'. As I can think of four variations of what could be described as ramming when playing online.

The type that is similar when you play offline, where both ships fair the same after a collision.

The type that makes you leave the track or fly up in the air!

The type where you stick to the other ship and watch helplessly as your shield goes down.

Or the type of ramming where you always come off second best even if you are a faster pilot. I've often thought this might be to do with momentum but it doesn't seem to matter if you are in the lead but slower than the pilot behind you or catching up with someone.

I've experienced this with up to 2mb connection speeds and still get it (even worse) with up to 8mb.

Hope a few people reply to this as I find it very interesting and also the fact that I am not playing HD much because of it.

[Amorbis]

I get all of those types of collision, KGB. Some are more common than others. I'd say the most common for me is some hybrid between always coming off second best and getting stuck to the other pilot. I had a collision with Kanar's Icaras the other day where I got stuck on him which led to him being eliminated after about 4 seconds off scraping. My definition of 'ramming' is the unavoidable collision of ships that take different racing lines, which can be combined with the affect of the internet connection.

I'm quite sure that the reason I get such great lag is that I have ADSL 512KBPs internet in rural Cumbria, topped off with a crazy router that can't decide whether it wants to connect or not.

[LOUDandPROUD]

LMBO...I want.

[blackwiggle]

I think it has more to do with the PSN as a whole and how many people are online doing various things.

Lag and other issues were a lot less [well seems so] prior to HOME becoming a open beta.

That's when people started to get the unable to play with their original PSNID account errors,the messaging system started to slow down considerably and wipeout HD started to get,what were then,minor online game play issues.

We should "collectively" do some sort of investigative research through each of our personal previous posts to track down,in chronological order,when and what problems started to appear and compare them to events that have occurred that might of had a baring on each of these problems.
Even trolling through the Official BUG report thread and comparing it to events would probably help as well.

For example:
HD released [date]
System update 2.70 released 2 days later [date] - problems?
First HD patch released [date]- problems?[the 100 friend limit bug]
System update 2.71 released [date] -problems?
HOME open beta released [date]-problems?
ETC

It might make for some interesting reading and help find out exactly what might of been the initial cause of each problem as it arose.

Just an idea.

[KIGO1987]

I remember the night (bloody morning here) that Wipeout HD got released and everybody who was able to download it quickly, and then went straight onto online to race other people, i remember getting responses on messenger saying quote "online is great", also "there is absolutely no lag, like in Pulse". Now look at it, its ****ed bad. Im racing back on Pulse again since im tired of the Vista pads on HD. Yes there is lag in Pulse, but i do see a fair bit of it, but it is nowhere near the incredibly frustrating lag, vista pads and heavy ships i get on HD. Im enjoying Pulse once again, like last year. Like i said to other people, "At least with Pulse there are no Vista pads". The difference with the PSP and the PS3, is that the PSP isnt signed into the PSN list like with the PS3, so the problem is partly do to PSN errors, and the rest of that is due to the hosts connection speed i guess.

[Spece2goin]

you might have noticed that no information about latency and ping are shown, and you can't choose a game on those criteria.

and the game itself seems to allow high latency, with very incaccurate ships positions, and some players becoming ghosts to prevent inapropriate collisions.
but there are many collisions you did not even expect because of latency, and that can be a source of bugs, like a ship suddenly going very fast from 1 point to another, and hitting you very hard, but was in reallity at the same speed as you.

[leungbok]

Sure that sony has work to do in improving the quality of his online system.

[KIGO1987]

you might have noticed that no information about latency and ping are shown, and you can't choose a game on those criteria.

and the game itself seems to allow high latency, with very incaccurate ships positions, and some players becoming ghosts to prevent inapropriate collisions.
but there are many collisions you did not even expect because of latency, and that can be a source of bugs, like a ship suddenly going very fast from 1 point to another, and hitting you very hard, but was in reallity at the same speed as you.

Ridge Racer 7 online was quite bad like that. It experience that alot on online.