WipEout HD a success or not?

[ProblemSolver]

Usually we would have to define a metric in which we can messure 'success'
(or the lack of), first. And let me tell you, there are many valid metrics one can
define. Of course there is the trivial metric, investment vs. profit, but this metric
can be rather shortsighted.

It's obvious that any further support depends on whether WipEput HD is a
success or not. How many copies were sold? Judging from the leaderboards of
SR, TT, SP; all at VINETA K, VENOM speed; and ZONE a tight upper bound can
be estimated. We have about 240k entries on these leaderboards (date: 08/01/04),
hence 240k copies of WipEout HD were sold, at best, up until today. What does
this tell us? I don't know.

Personally, I consider WipEout HD as a success according to my very own metric.

[IH8YOU]

While I have no idea as to the sales figures, or profit margin this game may or may not have generated, this game has been a smashing success in stealing the past 3 months of my life!

I absolutely adore this game.

[eLhabib]

I'm afraid it sold worse than Sony / SL hoped for.
...which is strange really, given that Pure sold how much? A million?

[IH8YOU]

Thing is - what kind of sales were they hoping for in the States - with ZERO marketing? I'm not talking about minimal marketing - I'm talking about an absolute NULL .

If not for the fact I've got some type of mental AG disorder that I caught in 1995 - I would have been none-the-wiser about this games release.

To the casual AG racer - this games existence likely still eludes.

Making this game physical, I'm sure would increase sales too. Not everyone has a credit card, or desire to find a PSN card. If it were on a Disc, in a store - it would catch the eyes of passers-by, AND, capture the demographic that isn't heavily networked into PSN. (i.e. people who reside in reality)

I'd have no hesitation about going out and purchasing a hard-copy - should one become available. (in spite of already having a digital copy already)

[swift killer]

I think Sony have lost the plot, i think it might be time for them to throw in the towell because in terms of console and game sales, it's having it's teeth kicked in at the moment. I started a thread on this over in the off topic section, it's the same reason i ended up buying a Wii and putting my PS3 back in it's box as a warning of what happens when you believe the hype.

[Darkdrium777]

i ended up buying a Wii and putting my PS3 back in it's box as a warning of what happens when you believe the hype.

I think that about sums it up What you think the Wii doesn't sell on hype?
I'd expect stuff like that on sites like the three fanboys blogs, but here? Disappointment. :/

[RJ O'Connell]

I think Sony have lost the plot, i think it might be time for them to throw in the towell because in terms of console and game sales, it's having it's teeth kicked in at the moment. I started a thread on this over in the off topic section, it's the same reason i ended up buying a Wii and putting my PS3 back in it's box as a warning of what happens when you believe the hype.

Except this thread isn't about PS3 sales, it's about the sales for Wipeout HD. We would be having this same discussion if the game sold poorly on the Xbox 360, Wii, PC, Mac OS X, iPhone etc....why did you have to bring this shiat up here?

As for Wipeout HD being a "failure"? OK, it doesn't look like it will sell a half-million "copies" after all, but I have full confidence that SCE and Studio Liverpool will continue to back the series until SL gets bored with making it. The numbers may not reflect it but HD is one of the marquee titles of PSN.

[Dark_Vincent]

240k copies is a lot for a downloadable game. Didn't Burnout Paradise sell about 30k through the PSN?

[RJ O'Connell]

But Paradise has sold a LOT more on its physical copy. I've debated the idea of downloading this upcoming "ultimate edition" that will have all the downloadable extras available once you download it...assuming I have enough money left over...

[Dark_Vincent]

But Paradise has sold a LOT more on its physical copy. I've debated the idea of downloading this upcoming "ultimate edition" that will have all the downloadable extras available once you download it...assuming I have enough money left over...

Yeah but WipEout doesn't have the development cost of a "physical game" (thus the low price). See, when EA presented the sales numbers for the digital copy of BP, they considered 30k sales to be a success, probably because it didn't cost them almost anything to get those extra bucks. Considering how a good chunk of WipEout HD's content comes from previous entries, 240k sales should guarantee WipEout HD's success..

[Frances_Penfold]

As pointed out elsewhere, the ~250,000 figure is guestimate because some purchasers may not have gone online (one of my IRL friends is in this camp) and because some game copies may have multiple users. At least these factors affect interpretation of the figure in opposite directions!

Speaking for myself, I am disappointed with the sales but comforted in knowing that the game should "have legs" into the future because of digital distribution. In that regard it seems like an excellent title to have put up on the PSN

I'm afraid it sold worse than Sony / SL hoped for.
...which is strange really, given that Pure sold how much? A million?

Pure did really, really well. I suppose Pure was positioned perfectly on the launch of a snazzy new handheld system, when it had been some time since other Wipeout releases?

Except this thread isn't about PS3 sales, it's about the sales for Wipeout HD

I hate system wars stuff but hardware sales are relevant here because of installed base, or lack thereof. Low sales of PS3 hardware means fewer copies of PS3 software-- something that Sony and SL are no doubt aware of when evaluating how well WOHD has done. 250,000 sales means a lot more on PS3 than on Xbox360 at the moment

I really do wonder what SL is up to these days. The PSP and PS3 platforms seem saturated with the Wipeout franchise-- are they working on PSP2 Wipeout or something new altogether?

[Wellington86]

Yes, not only is that number unreliable for the reasons given by Frances_Penfold, it is also unreliable because we know that people have been removed from the leaderboards for inactivity. I would suspect the number of these people is quite high because the game was originally bought by a large number of trophy whores. They move on very quickly to other games once they have got as many trophies as they think they can get with a certain amount of effort. I would hazard that the total number of copies sold of wohd is much higher than 250k.

Also, the entire game is recycled content. This means that a) the game was much cheaper to produce than usual, and b) expected sales will not have been very high.

To be honest I doubt that the pessimistic tone of this thread is shared at SCEE.

[bik3rluke]

WipEout HD is amazing. The best game I've ever played.

[Frances_Penfold]

To be honest I doubt that the pessimistic tone of this thread is shared at SCEE

Probably not, though the overall mood at Sony's electronic entertainment divisions is probably not very upbeat ATM

[IH8YOU]

Probably not, though the overall mood at Sony's electronic entertainment divisions is probably not very upbeat ATM

:::Takes wad of cash out of pocket:::

Sony - this can be yours if you play your cards just right. (read below)

More DLC for WOHD. = Pair
Wipeout 3 SE ported / updated for the PS3 - and sold in the US. = Royal Flush
An entirely new Wipeout on the PS3. = I'll (@*k your d*@ks

[ProblemSolver]

@Frances_Penfold
The probability that you've got WipEout HD without never being online after
a race on VINETA K is very, very low. And that 'multiple user' argument will
likely remove 1% from the estimate.

... it is also unreliable because we know that
people have been removed from the leaderboards for inactivity. I would suspect the number of these people is quite high because the game was originally bought by a large number of trophy whores. They move on very quickly to other games once they have got as many trophies as they think they can get with a certain amount of effort.

I monitor the amount of entries of the ZONE leaderboard rather closely.
VINETA K ZONE had about 170k entries after about one and a half month
and AP ZONE had about 180k entries. But that situation has changed.
VK has now 240k entries, but on AP we can see a drop down to 110k due to
people being removed from it. Hence, about 70k people were removed from
AP. If we assume, at best, that the same amount of people were removed
from VK, then we would theoretically have 310k entries on VK, leading to
310k copies sold. Really? Don't know. If we factor in that 1 out of 5 copies
were being shared (my guess), then the given number drops down to about
250k again. Why is it possible to share that game, anyways?

But I can't see, on the information given, how we would get a figure of about
"I would hazard that the total number of copies sold of wohd is much higher
than 250k"? 400k? Anyways, who said that 250k copies is a bad result? What
is the metric?

I simply want to know if WipEout HD is a success for SL, such that we
can expect DLC or whatever. And maybe some people on this message
board know a little bit more about it.

[Laeke]

I think that the fact it is a PSN game sold at 20 Euros (more or less) is pretty telling: maybe Sony wanted to experiment and to have a flagship title for the PSN, but it sure seems like they didn't expect to sell a ton of them on discs at full price. It sold well on the PSP but then again there was no installment on an home console since 2002... and we are speaking of the PS2, most successful home system ever at this point.

Expectations probably changed quite a bit since game went into development, because the PS3 sales numbers were very under what was expected at the beginning.

I have no idea if it is a "success" for Sony or SL: You make sound points ProblemSolver, but fact is that the leaderboard thing is a bit in the air... quite a lot of people in the world do not go online with their PS3. While you have to go at least once to download the game, well, who knows? But the 250k seems like a good estimate. It seems OK if you compare with the installed user base and activity around the game in non-gaming message board. The game also had little marketing and I think it should have some legs.

In my case, WOHD is the title that convinced me to get a PS3 (not the only one, but the one that caught my interest a bit before I had the financial means to acquire a new console system).

[ProblemSolver]

@Laeke:
"... You make sound points ProblemSolver, but fact is that the leaderboard thing is a bit in the air...

Yeah, right. But that's the only information we have.

If anyone can make a better estimate, don't be shy.

[Laeke]

I'm french and a cartesian, so I have a tendency to doubt, even when I consider an assumption reasonable given the little info we have: i do agree that 250-300k seems about right as far as we can tell.

Although my main point was that the Wipeout series is not really what you would call a "blockbuster" and this should be taken in consideration (not that anyone said the game bombed). And I don't remember a lot of marketing for the title: maybe Sony tought that for such a title (which is, I guess, "niche") word-of-mouth would suffice. Marketing and advertisement are extra -and heavy- costs.

My wild guess would be that the game is doing OK in the context of the PS3. I do not know when development started, they had maybe far larger objectives to begin with before the system release... but the game is not really at fault there, heh?

[Frances_Penfold]

Pretty much all sales data that consumers have access to are estimated-- even Media Create and NPD

My guess, ProblemSolver, is that your estimate is pretty close. As you say, it's hard to *interpret* the values because it depends on the efforts that went into development and Sony's expectations. Generally AAA first-party efforts-- which is certainly what I would consider WOHD to be-- sell more than 250,000 copies. At least, that's my sense from following sales data (via Media Create or NPD numbers) on neoGAF and IGN and other places. So I'd agree with elHabib that WOHD sales were ok, disappointing but not awful. Not that I'm an expert on this or anything

For possible DLC, what's maybe the biggest concern is this
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle5446963.ece