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Thread: Is Harimau the weakest craft in the game??

  1. #21
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    trendf as it seems i'm not the only who suspect from time that harimau feels a bit heavier and stable than assegai

    sideshow made an interesting point, sure there should be other factors not in the stats , i'n not so sure about mass,at least in straight terms, i mean if you think that hit a triakis with a icaras it don't moves and icaras bounce away, this is not true, i've try it in 2 player and as it seems all ships reacts at the same way on collision from the same angles...but maybe in other situations a mass factor could enter in consideration...i'm pretty sure there a stability stats or a lateral stability , i've past many many days switching races between assegai and harimau, and some after i had feel the difference, i say after a while it's pretty noticeable

    another point i want to know if someone has noticed the quirex unstability, it's pretty shocking...i've done the switching thing between quirex and mirage too ;pretty similar stats ships too, same speed and same handling on paper

  2. #22
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    My point was not to rain down hate on Harimau, but was about trying to understand why it's there in the first place.

    From my own experience with HD, I have piloted all crafts, some alot more than other, but what I came to realize is that the only thing that matters, the bottom line is - Acceleration (Thrust). Speed has no sure effect (As a Faiser pilot can out run an Icaras pilot on 90% of the tracks, with exception AP). Shield, well, As above, it never seems to be the attribute that can make or break a race.

    That leaves only Handling, and, well, that is also not a race maker/breaker. I came to realize that each craft handles differently not because of it's stats, but because of the way it feels (Lighter - Heavier). This is no GT or LFS, where every aspect of a car is important in it's own way.

    Also, like Sideshow mentioned, those stat distributions can be correct (or atleast the way it works). I have seen both Harimau and Icaras on the phantom leader boards. Meaning handling is not a factor in the long run. And neither speed for that matter.

    You play it as you feel it, and Harimau may feel good to some, but overall, it feels extremely light, and with no power (with Assagai is feels right for the look of the craft - no weight on front). Icaras for comparison feels like it has a very good center of gravity, and so are the rest of the high speed crafts.

    So what makes Harimau a craft to use? It has crap stats, that in the end doesn't mean a thing as we can see on the leader boards or in races. It is only a skin to use, just like Piranha and Triakis. But why give it no real edge? It's like it doesn't have anything to stand out form the rest. Every other craft has, so why not this one?
    Last edited by H3avyM3tal; 2nd December 2008 at 03:43 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by H3avyM3tal View Post
    But why give it no real edge? It's like it doesn't have anything to stand out form the rest. Every other craft has, so why not this one?
    It doesn't have any one attribute that stands out but maybe that's it. It's balanced. Maybe more so than others that have one facet that either is maxed out or lacking.

    I really like how it almost dances around the track. I love using it on Metropia. For me it's just "swoosh swoosh" around the track.

    Honestly though you really can't argue any of the crafts legitimacy being included. What one person thinks is the ultimate is another's

  4. #24
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    Sorry H3avyM3tal, your talking rubbish.

    What makes ships stand out to you? Same as most Id imagine - ship shape, skin, stats, and feel of flying it.

    I love the shape, reminds me of a fish, love the skins as all 3 are very different, the stats dont do the ship justice unfortunatley, but the flying style is a smooth gliding style -Unlike any other ship.

  5. #25
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    Concept ship models n eed to make a comeback from pulse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn View Post
    Sorry H3avyM3tal, your talking rubbish.

    What makes ships stand out to you? Same as most Id imagine - ship shape, skin, stats, and feel of flying it.

    I love the shape, reminds me of a fish, love the skins as all 3 are very different, the stats dont do the ship justice unfortunatley, but the flying style is a smooth gliding style -Unlike any other ship.
    Why rubbish? Because you don't agree or because nothing that I wrote has a stron base to be a fact - when you say that it is all subjective.

    Well ofcourse it is. If we all agreed than it would be boring here. Why am I wrong exactly? That is how I look at the game, and that is why I made through the toughest bits in the game winning with a low handling ship (Icaras) while other players do it with high handling crafts.

    It doesn't matter. It is just easier to get a perfect driving line with a high handling ship, but it is also possible with every other ship. I don't like the feel of the Harimau, but that is my opinion. It's not right or wrong.

    It isn't very different from other ships - the feel is crucial here, but that is subjective. I don't think this craft is needed in the game. That doesn't mean it sucks, it just means that I think it is pointless.

    But like you mentioned, it is about the skin and feel alone in the end.

  7. #27
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    I know it doesnt matter who uses what. That was never brought into question.

    I just found your comment "pointless" hilarious. Basically because it handles like an assegai with a heavier nose, it makes it a pointless inclusion? If it was identical id understand, but subtle changes make big differences, look at pirahna and triakis.

    Plus if you believe the only stat a ship requires to win a race is just acceleration your heads in the clouds.

  8. #28
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    as heavymetal has mentioned i'm in accord with him about the diffence in importance about all the 4 stats known, of all 4 the least important is sure the top speed, why? i see why, what do you think how much difference there is practically, i mean practically, between feisar and icaras, with practically i mean ,you see a 10 in stats but what it would mean in km/h?
    did you know this?
    what do you think ,that there are 100 km/h of difference in top speed between the slower and the faster ship as in fusion era...nay absolutely not

    why when you are pretty bored and you don not have anything better to do don't try yourself and do some testing?

    i've already done, if you are interested just ask me, i will happy to tell you

    but i'm not completely in accord when you say that the handling is simple how much heavier and lighter you feel the ship, the handling is a mix of how responsive and fast is to do manoeuvre, how much you feel the ship is because of this, react to comands and the steering radius...
    you do not certain want to argue that the steering radius of a triakis is the same as the feisar one...
    the difference is all that , that you can't do certain things with low handling ships, if you for exemple enter a turn wrong way you certain do not have much chances to adjust your line and avoid a further collision with a piranha or a triakis, i do not say that you do not have any i say that the chances became lower and lower, on the other hand higher handling ships like feisar , assegai tend to oversteering and be very unbalanced in some turns, too sensitives...

    anyway haydn is right , it reminds too much a fish to me too heheheeh some tropical ,colored fish
    about the harimau style we're all in accord!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn View Post
    I know it doesnt matter who uses what. That was never brought into question.

    I just found your comment "pointless" hilarious. Basically because it handles like an assegai with a heavier nose, it makes it a pointless inclusion? If it was identical id understand, but subtle changes make big differences, look at pirahna and triakis.

    Plus if you believe the only stat a ship requires to win a race is just acceleration your heads in the clouds.
    I never said that Thrust wins or loses a game, I just said that its the one stat the stands out atop the rest. Also, You forget that there is a 5th stat which is the player himself. There is no real difference between Triakis and Piranha per say, the change is very subtle.

    Also, this is not exactly a simultion of something that exists, it is much simpler, where the levels of importance in performance are really small, and the thing that will make or break a race is the player. Ships in this game are just a means for a player to excel at what he does.

    I still think that Harimau is pointless, but feel free to think otherwise. Just don't take it personally...

  10. #30
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    nothing personal. just have trouble understanding. Not after an argument.
    I still see it as labeling it pointless simply due to you not enjoying it, especially how you dont seem tot hink that either pirahna/triakis are a equally "pointless" craft.

    variety is the spice of life.

  11. #31
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    Well we all drive the ship that we like the most, don't we? However I wouldn't go so far as saying that any of the ships are pointless, try them out long enough and you'll figure out that each of them is different.
    However, with enough practise every ship can do the exact same thing.

  12. #32
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    why many people say " finaly harimau seems an ag-craft now " what was wrong with previous design?
    as far i'm concerned i like very much the pure design, no i dig up more the pure design, the tail seem more elongated, wide and marked, the aerodynamic profile is better than in hd, in hd harimau is quite " fatty " from profile view and the tail seems too small and lower

  13. #33
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    "..the only thing that matters, the bottom line is - Acceleration (Thrust)."

    ".. I just said that its the one stat the stands out atop the rest."

    I don't see these two statements as being congruent with each other.

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    You know what? I'm actually really happy that the differences between all the ships in HD are so subtle that every ship can kick ass on the record tables. This way, everyone gets to fly their favorite craft and can still be competitive! Sure, it would be nice to have a beast like the 2097 Qirex, that is really tough to control but insanely fast when mastered. But then, nobody could be in the records with other ships. I prefer it as it stands now.

    One could argue that it makes the whole idea of having different ships at all pointless, but as was said before: variety is the spice of AG-racing.

    And to the OP: be aware that in a game like wipEout, where most of the people who are truly dedicated to it mostly stick to a team and wouldn't even change their allegiance even if their ship was inferior, it's not exactly a good idea to create a thread with a title along the lines of 'hey, isn't team so-and-so completely pointless?' - it's bound to create some very biased responses.

    There is no pointless. The more, the merrier

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    "..the only thing that matters, out of the 4 attributes a craft had, the bottom line is - Acceleration (Thrust)."

    ".. I just said that its the one stat the stands out atop the rest."

    I don't see these two statements as being congruent with each other.
    Better now? I am sorry that I wasn't clear enough, but this is what I ment. And as long as I don't say specifically what I meant, please take my word for what I mean. In this case, I wasn't specific, and I'm sorry for that, will try to avoid it in the future.

    What I ment was - the attribute that stands out atop the rest is Thrust, because it is a visible thing and one that is not affected by the player.
    The difference between thrust and handling is that a player can take a handling of 60-70 and make it into a 90-100.

    Otherwise, it is all about the skin and shape (and feel). However, I don't like having a craft that doesn't stand out as much as I didn't get the point with GT having 700 cars when 500 of them never being used even though some of them look really good.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by H3avyM3tal View Post
    What I ment was - the attribute that stands out atop the rest is Thrust, because it is a visible thing and one that is not affected by the player.
    The difference between thrust and handling is that a player can take a handling of 60-70 and make it into a 90-100.
    I would have said this was speed - like you say, the player's skill can compensate for poor handling, but if both players race perfectly then top speed will determine who wins.

    Though, thinking about it, I guess it depends on the track. On tracks where you spend a lot of time at top speed (like moa therma) then speed will be the governing statistic, while on twisty, more technical tracks (like sebenco climb), where you spend more time coming out of air-brake corners than you do flat out, thrust will be dominant. I guess it's also possible that on the even more intense tracks (sol 2 reverse), handling could become more important... hmmmm.
    I think I'm gonna sit with the opinion that the game is fairly even team-wise, and not listen to any cries of imba from sore losers (not that I've heard any such thing here).

    Quote Originally Posted by eLhabib
    You know what? I'm actually really happy that the differences between all the ships in HD are so subtle that every ship can kick ass on the record tables. This way, everyone gets to fly their favorite craft and can still be competitive!
    Couldn't agree more.

  17. #37
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    For me there are some reasons to say "yes" to the original question if we are asking about ships for multiplayer. Harimau`s weak thrust makes it open to more trouble on lap 1 online, I think. The other "light" ships have better acceleration which can help them get away from the lap 1 scramble. Harimau doesn`t have another "unique selling point" in performance to compensate for this, maybe, but if it feels good to someone it`s totally good enough to win races. It`s no way underpowered and uncompetitive like some Pure ships were. That`s only the reasons I haven`t considered it and maybe I`m missing out. And it looks beautiful in yellow.

    I think the top speed stat of a ship is a bigger factor in HD than Pure or Pulse. If you set a ghost on Moa Therma with a speed 7 ship, then bring out one of the big speedsters to race it, you can actually see the speed difference between the ships much more clearly than you could in similar situations in Pure and Pulse, I think.

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    I found the speed differences between ships much larger in Pure than in HD. But then maybe I don't remember so well...

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    Default Mod message.


    .
    Don't modify quotes whilst leaving them in quote format so that they say something not in the post of the person you're quoting, even if that post contains a quote of your own words. For example, my quote of a post by H3avyM3tal did not contain the words he shows in bold in his "quotation" of my post. It is no longer a quote and should not be shown as such. The use of bolding in quoting someone's else's post should only be used to highlight the words that are actually there in the quoted post, the ones you want to particularly discuss. In any argumentations, it should be clear as to what was said by whom.

    We probably ought to add this to the guidelines. But more clearly phrased than I've done it here.
    .

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    That was my intention in bolding, but I understand. I am not the best one at explaining oneself, and it takes me a couple of posts to get the messege through.

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