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Thread: HD's AI

  1. #41
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    well im finally down to one last elite tournament... the 8 race tourney in the middle of grid 8... everything else is elite/phatom gold.

    UPDATE: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY I GOT ELITE TOURNAMENT LEGEND!
    Last edited by Wip3ou7; 3rd October 2008 at 04:37 AM.

  2. #42
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    Well, either I'm very lucky on my own part, but once you get the hang of the Elite AI they become ''rather'' easy to beat. I have two major pointers for everyone:

    1. Speed. Speed all the way. Hit all the pads, and do all the BRs. Very important. I found that out when trying to beat Chengou on Venom. The lead AI was putting a 7 secs lead after half the first lap. When you hit all the speed pads, you get back to him up his ass at the last lap, so passing him is no trouble from there. So speed first, weapons later.
    2. About weapons, on tracks with BRs like Chengou: absorb only and use when you don't need to absorb. Because you will be doing BRs primarily, and they take off 15%. When on a track with no BRs though, fire, always (Except when it's mines or Bomb and you're in eight, that is common sense). Absorb when you only get hit.

    Also, if you get hit more than two times, you need to restart. Unless you are really lucky you will not be able to get first place.
    If you respect these two tips, you'll see it becomes much easier.

    Remember: Speed first, weapons later.

    Good luck.

    I'm currently replaying the campaign on elite, onto the seventh or eight tier (The green and black one) No troubles yet and I think I won't get any, I already beat Meltdown on elite. I use my tips and it works really well, try it out

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by eLhabib View Post
    While I do appreciate the really hard AI, I think it takes it a little too far sometimes. Try a race on Sebenco Climb Phantom with Elite AI and you'll know what I am talking about. They fly lines that are impossible - and I'm not saying that as a noob. I did a couple of perfect laps, all speed pads, really nice line, and still got passed by AI ships (no turbo pickups involved). Autopilots really become valuable then, when you activate them you are somehow a lot faster than racing the same line yourself. Something's not perfectly straight here...

    I agree wholeheartedly, i'm no pro (tho i just finished campaign on elite ) but when you nail every turbo pad and they still manage to overtake you i just... i don't know.

    Oh and yeah the Autopilot seems to increase your speed...

  4. #44
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    Just want to throw in my two cents here... I kind of agree with elhabib, ColdRem's et al that the AI takes it a bit too far. Chengou on elite phantom is an ideal example of what's wrong with the AI: it's not just that it's difficult, it's that it does stuff that i can't do like take that first 90 left at full speed, seemingly without airbreaks. It races like it's on autopilot the whole time, with that otherwordly agility and speed. also, while the AI can easily bump you off your racing line, it seems almost rigidly fixed on its. This means jostling matches always end up with you as the loser. (indeed such incidents screw me up more than the enemy weapons). As others have said, the fact that a good race on some tracks comes down to autopilot is a little ridiculous. I suppose i'm just a little frustrated... I got through the last grid of the race campaign without getting too irritated by it (fluking my way through the tournament with a 1 point victory, phew!) but now i'm doing all those tracks again for the Arcade Perfect trophy and it just feels a little cheap. Still brilliant though, it's fantastic having a proper wipeout back on console and the picture mode is oddly addictive.

  5. #45
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    I found that the exact opposite was easier. It was impossible to outrun the AI even when running perfect laps with BRs and turbos hit. I found the only way to beat them was to give priority to weapon pads over turbo pads and keep nailing them with weapons.

  6. #46
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    Well i have to absolutly agree that the AI is specially hard on Chengou and Sabenco mostly cos they do impossible lines like elhabib said... but what completly makes me out of my nerves is that they always seem to have the apropiate weapon loaded like mines or bombs when im right behind them or missiles when im finally able to pass someone... while i only get mines when im going 8th and if i ever get 1st they just give me rockets... i hardly get a turbo or an autopilot on the 5 laps of a Phantom race... really, its frustrating...

  7. #47
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    Sure the Elite give challenge but I would prefer the challenge depended most on my skill to fly rather than my luck on weapons. Actually, even if I'm lucky with weapons the AI still doesn't care if it's hit or not. Once a Mirage took a bomb right in the face in the last Chenghou turn. I passed it, took the pads and looked behind. She didn't took the pads but somehow managed to pass me again on the first turn to the right. I was with Assegai btw, same speed and same thrust.

    Things like this are pretty ridiculous.

  8. #48
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    Cheeky... Can't say I had much trouble on metropia, I mean I'd be lying if I said I could beat it every time on Phantom Elite but I can definitely get it more often than not. I also do ok on sebenco racing AG-sys, that craft handles that course pretty well, provided I don't get slammed by a bomb on the last two laps I can usualy place every time even on elite phantom. Chengou is infuriating though, the cheating by the AI is obscene on that course. Ah well, I've got Arcade Perfect and Elite Race Campaign Gold, pressure is off as far as the AI is concerned. Hopefully SL doesn't feel the need to turn things up any higher than they are already come the release of the DL packs!

    EDIT: This post was in response to one formerly above me that appears to have been deleted since. Apologies if it seems out of context.
    Last edited by trk_rkd; 7th October 2008 at 04:41 AM.

  9. #49
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    As I said, my tips work, but there is no doubt the Elite AI cheats.
    But really what you've got to do is keep working at it, speed is very important since the AI already does a pretty good job of shooting themselves (I say pretty good job because on some rare occasions the leader gets away and puts up to ten seconds of lead between him and you who is in second place) so all you've got to go for is the fastest line, which includes most if not all the speed pads and the barrel rolls.
    Also, if you are about to lose, don't throw the controller, just pause and restart. I know it sounds simple to say at first, but believe me, once you get passed the fact that the AI is broken and cheats and whatever, the swearing stops. It is possible to beat them, just not all the times.
    Good luck

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by trk_rkd View Post
    also, while the AI can easily bump you off your racing line, it seems almost rigidly fixed on its. This means jostling matches always end up with you as the loser.
    Uh huh this is something that really annoys me if an AI smashes into you during a corner for example you loose all your speed while they saunter off unharmed, who thought this was a good idea? Seriously?

    So I thought at first it was a ship weight thing and because and Assegai is supposed to be light and nimble that was why I was getting bashed about. Revenge! I thought when I took out Triakis......wrong.

  11. #51
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    I think the Elite AI was made so difficult precisely because so many people complained about Wipeout AI being too easy to beat. So now you have a truly difficult challenge where victory can only be accomplished by the highly talented and persistent. If you beat the Elite AI despite their cheating and unfair advantages, you can feel really proud of yourself for doing so.

  12. #52
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    Well said, Lance. It`s not a Real AG Racing Simulator and isn`t meant to be. It`s tough arcade racing and a challenge. I just look at it like that and it doesn`t worry or disapoint me. At least you have to fly fast to win now. In old wipeouts the ships did slow cheating - ie going too slow compared to how they would in real life and thus letting you win too easily - I`d rather have this, with super-ramming, autopiloted AI ships, it`s not impossible, as several have proved, and it keeps you busy!

  13. #53
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    Well, So I'm really proud of myself tonight lol (thanks again Darkdrium for the absorb/go fast tips)... But I lost sooo many time in this AI struggle... Haven't seen any reverse track in the campaign lol... & I won't talk about my horrible SL times anywhere. I need practice. But now I feel free to go to that racebox section, doing SL 99 laps, SL 99 laps.....
    Last edited by kanar; 7th October 2008 at 03:49 PM.

  14. #54
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    Hi All.

    Elite AI is very strong in HD, but......I'm look at race time of the AI ships VS mine and I feel there's a little adjustment during multiple attempts....

    When you start the sequence of attempts the AI ships win with a lot of sec, even if well run.
    After.... the race time of AI increases in armony with your improvement in velocity...

    It's only my feelings about AI Elite system.......faster best, first win.

    Read You Soon
    CdRom

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    I think the Elite AI was made so difficult precisely because so many people complained about Wipeout AI being too easy to beat. So now you have a truly difficult challenge where victory can only be accomplished by the highly talented and persistent. If you beat the Elite AI despite their cheating and unfair advantages, you can feel really proud of yourself for doing so.
    2 hours a race isn't something to be proud of. Most of the time, I felt frustrated and stressed on how I can take turns and barrel roll like a champ, but the competition is 5 seconds still ahead of me. Most of the time, it has to do with weapon pick ups. It's truely about luck.



    -If you take a power up instead of a speed pad, 75-80% of the time it's a worthless power up anyways because I noticed you get mines and bombs at last palce, but rockets and cannons whenever you're in first.

    -Take a speed pad instead of a power up results in getting mined or cannoned to hell.

  16. #56
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    The above is very true. It's not just about skill, I would be fine if it was. But luck just plays a far to greater role in trying to beat the Elite AI.

  17. #57
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    I am currently trying to get Elite in all campaing races, i am going on the 6th Cell.

    I have to say this AI is really cheap, it cheats a lot really and it should be like this.
    Why is that if i shoot them, they just slow down but never stop? Why is it that regarless the ship i am using they always seem faster?

    I think the dev team should tone it down a little, and this comes from a Wipeout purist.
    We need soo much luck, too much imo, and not so much skill.

  18. #58
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    Hi All!

    Elite's AI Bastard Inside!!!

    I was running in ubermall in venom class.
    In the second round I was in second place.
    In the third round I run near the first, but out of its path.
    In the last chicane I charge a turbo, rejoice between me thinking about the next victory
    I align my ship with the climb before the finish and I see the first front of me on the other side of the track, than Shooting turbo, that makes me sideshifting and then 'stop' to me ...... Aaaargh! go beyond the goal, while I see flying above me another ship ..... and I am the third!

    I want to build a team of Bastard Elite AI Ships Destroyers!!!

    Read You Soon
    CdRom

  19. #59
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    lol Romano i can feel your pain, but right after you got the hang on HD you ll think differently about those AI Elite bastards. I can tell you it's such a great training trying to beat them cause it's a great preparation to fight online.
    I remember time where AI was clearly cheating ( not the speed advantage but rather the 'dodging movement' i mean in 2097/XL the ship right in front of you knows in 'advance' your route and will suddenly do like a sideshift in order to move right in front of your nose : you hit his back and you slowdown.

    I really prefer by far those HD AI elite ships and for those who are saying they are clearly faster everytime than you , let me say they are wrong : when you beginn to master the hardest tracks with shortest line and find the good BR vibe you ll be able to pass them around lap2 or 3 without any huge weapon luck ( i did finished one time 1st on lap1 on seb climb but had 2 turbos and shield was critical due to massives BR while lap1). AI are 5%faster but not doing the perfect lines and no BR for them so it's doable, trust me.

    Keep practising and you ll find them easier to beat ( still difficult but goal is definitly possible to reach)

  20. #60
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    Hi Asa-Sensei, hi All!

    I'm totally agree with you....sure!

    I say my race adventure only for having a big smile togheter with other pilots!

    In reality I really love the HD Elite AI.....when I Win I feel an adrenalinic warm inside!

    for now I'm starting Meltdown.....eh eh eh....near the End, but starting the real fun!

    Read You Soon
    CdRom

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