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  1. #1
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    Question HD's AI

    Is anyone else finding the new 'Elite' AI really really hard to beat? Especially on Chenghou? it just took me about 25mins and 7 or 8 tries to beat it in the second grid....

  2. #2
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    They do make you work, yes. I think it`s cool that you have to fly reasonably fast just to catch them. In one race I saw the leading ship holding a plasma, waiting for me to pass, so I had to make sure to take him out before I went past. Touches like that are quite impressive AI.

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    I was being brutalized at the back of the field in 7th 8th place, unable to catch the leaders! it takes some extremely crafty flying and some precise weaponwork to beat them, for sure.

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    While I do appreciate the really hard AI, I think it takes it a little too far sometimes. Try a race on Sebenco Climb Phantom with Elite AI and you'll know what I am talking about. They fly lines that are impossible - and I'm not saying that as a noob. I did a couple of perfect laps, all speed pads, really nice line, and still got passed by AI ships (no turbo pickups involved). Autopilots really become valuable then, when you activate them you are somehow a lot faster than racing the same line yourself. Something's not perfectly straight here...

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    I like having competent AI. i found the pure/pulse AI lacking in competitiveness, and i was constantly winning races by 3 seconds or more. This AI im fighting till the end, and then some. Sure, it can be a little bullshit at times, but patches can fix obvious discrepancies, cant they?

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    Elite difficulty sounds very tantalizing. My biggest complaint about XL was the AI felt brain dead, very rarely when playing Wipeout do I ever feel like I'm really working for a victory...

  7. #7
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    Elite is really hard this time, good luck on finishing first the first time. It does take some practice, but I managed to beat them eventually. Of course it takes a good dose of luck too, you don't want to be hit by weapons' fire too much.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eLhabib View Post
    While I do appreciate the really hard AI, I think it takes it a little too far sometimes. Try a race on Sebenco Climb Phantom with Elite AI and you'll know what I am talking about. They fly lines that are impossible - and I'm not saying that as a noob. I did a couple of perfect laps, all speed pads, really nice line, and still got passed by AI ships (no turbo pickups involved). Autopilots really become valuable then, when you activate them you are somehow a lot faster than racing the same line yourself. Something's not perfectly straight here...
    Agreed. I've seen this on many occasions. I'm thinking maybe its my pitch? but it turns out it wasn't. it still did the same thing for some weird reason.

  9. #9
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    Angry

    This is great news! I am not alone...
    Raced Chenghou last night with Elite opponents. A lot of swearing was involved I can tell you, until the 20th try or something. I finally got that gold medal but man!, you really have to take all speed pads, all possible barrel rolls plus a couple of turbos to make it! Once, I was second place in the last corner with a quake. Guess who got pissed off when I accidentally absorbed it! This game just might be to much for me to handle...

  10. #10
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    Just raced the Elite AI again on Chenghou while going for the Elite Campaign Master Trophy. It does honestly seem to me that the game determines before the start of the race whether it is possible for you to win or not. I had an excellent race, hitting every speed pad, barrel rolling wherever I could, even a couple of turbos thrown in. I finished 6th with absolutely no hope of catching anyone in front of me. I then had another go, putting in nearly the same race time, and won.

    Logic defies me...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syntek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by eLhabib View Post
    Autopilots really become valuable then, when you activate them you are somehow a lot faster than racing the same line yourself. Something's not perfectly straight here...
    Agreed. I've seen this on many occasions. I'm thinking maybe its my pitch? but it turns out it wasn't. it still did the same thing for some weird reason.
    Yeah, that's usually a hallmark of overusing a cheap-n-easy AI design.
    What I mean is, to make a bad AI opponent tougher, you can either make the AI "smarter" (really tough to do!) or you can just make it go faster. So you make them always travel at 110% speed, and you can only do 100%, so they're normally faster than you. Then you take the Autopilot, and while it's activated your ship follows the same rules as the AI ships, which means suddenly you can do 110% speed. Which is why you're faster with an Autopilot and why the AI ships are so annoying to you with their speed-without-effort.

    That's my guess at it anyway. 8 )


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eLhabib View Post
    While I do appreciate the really hard AI, I think it takes it a little too far sometimes. Try a race on Sebenco Climb Phantom with Elite AI and you'll know what I am talking about. They fly lines that are impossible - and I'm not saying that as a noob. I did a couple of perfect laps, all speed pads, really nice line, and still got passed by AI ships (no turbo pickups involved). Autopilots really become valuable then, when you activate them you are somehow a lot faster than racing the same line yourself. Something's not perfectly straight here...

    I agree wholeheartedly, i'm no pro (tho i just finished campaign on elite ) but when you nail every turbo pad and they still manage to overtake you i just... i don't know.

    Oh and yeah the Autopilot seems to increase your speed...

  13. #13
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    Just want to throw in my two cents here... I kind of agree with elhabib, ColdRem's et al that the AI takes it a bit too far. Chengou on elite phantom is an ideal example of what's wrong with the AI: it's not just that it's difficult, it's that it does stuff that i can't do like take that first 90 left at full speed, seemingly without airbreaks. It races like it's on autopilot the whole time, with that otherwordly agility and speed. also, while the AI can easily bump you off your racing line, it seems almost rigidly fixed on its. This means jostling matches always end up with you as the loser. (indeed such incidents screw me up more than the enemy weapons). As others have said, the fact that a good race on some tracks comes down to autopilot is a little ridiculous. I suppose i'm just a little frustrated... I got through the last grid of the race campaign without getting too irritated by it (fluking my way through the tournament with a 1 point victory, phew!) but now i'm doing all those tracks again for the Arcade Perfect trophy and it just feels a little cheap. Still brilliant though, it's fantastic having a proper wipeout back on console and the picture mode is oddly addictive.

  14. #14
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    I found that the exact opposite was easier. It was impossible to outrun the AI even when running perfect laps with BRs and turbos hit. I found the only way to beat them was to give priority to weapon pads over turbo pads and keep nailing them with weapons.

  15. #15
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    Well i have to absolutly agree that the AI is specially hard on Chengou and Sabenco mostly cos they do impossible lines like elhabib said... but what completly makes me out of my nerves is that they always seem to have the apropiate weapon loaded like mines or bombs when im right behind them or missiles when im finally able to pass someone... while i only get mines when im going 8th and if i ever get 1st they just give me rockets... i hardly get a turbo or an autopilot on the 5 laps of a Phantom race... really, its frustrating...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by trk_rkd View Post
    also, while the AI can easily bump you off your racing line, it seems almost rigidly fixed on its. This means jostling matches always end up with you as the loser.
    Uh huh this is something that really annoys me if an AI smashes into you during a corner for example you loose all your speed while they saunter off unharmed, who thought this was a good idea? Seriously?

    So I thought at first it was a ship weight thing and because and Assegai is supposed to be light and nimble that was why I was getting bashed about. Revenge! I thought when I took out Triakis......wrong.

  17. #17
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    The AI is how it should be, if it wasn't hard then it wouldn't be worth calling elite. Yes its a bit cheap at times, but at least its not rubber band, if you get a lead and race clean you keep it. This is the only racing game that I can remember that has this in recent memory.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedScar View Post
    its not rubber band
    Not from what I recall. I pretty much play single race Elite exclusively, and I'm afraid to say that there is rubber banding. Sometimes at a checkpoint I have 5 seconds lead, and the next I have only 2, and the next I can see all the ships in rear view. They catch up, if you're too far.
    And I ain't messing up so much either, I know Sebenco Reverse like the back of my hand for example, yet I never get more than 2 seconds lead in the end, but in the middle of the race it might say I have 5 seconds lead at a checkpoint.

    Colin Berry might disagree, he said there was no rubber band, but from my experience, there is. It's certainly not like in Pulse, where if I get a 5 seconds lead I keep it until the end of the race. I have never finished more then 2 seconds ahead of the Elite AI, after a clean race.

    Also, sometimes say on Chengou I can win with 2:08 with a truly terrible race, and still be 1 sec ahead of the AI. Other times, I get to 2:04 and lose to an AI who did 2:02 (Which is world record level, in top 20 at least), and that was a pretty damn fine race.
    Either it's a very big coincidence, or one of the programmers didn't tell something to Colin.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkdrium777 View Post
    Also, sometimes say on Chengou I can win with 2:08 with a truly terrible race, and still be 1 sec ahead of the AI. Other times, I get to 2:04 and lose to an AI who did 2:02 (Which is world record level, in top 20 at least), and that was a pretty damn fine race.
    So just like against real players? This looks like a nice AI to me!
    Btw, never won with more than 2 seconds ahead against the AI?
    I remember not so long ago I had almost 10 seconds!

    And Cerium: 100% agreed, I almost always win against Elite AI,
    and that's with starting last on the grid each time!
    If anything, they should add an Elite+ difficulty.

  20. #20
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    Oh yeah, the AI is definately bullshit sometimes. Just a second ago I was racing on Phantom/Elite on Chengou Project and during the big fall in mid air about half way down the drop I get hit by ROCKETS!! WHAT THE F'?? THAT IS COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE! MID-FALL I GET HIT BY ROCKETS?!?!

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