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Thread: Petition against Elimination Respawning

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  1. #1
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    Default Petition against Elimination Respawning

    Apparently, when you get eliminated in wipEout HD multiplayer, you respawn. Yes, it is ****. And no, we don't want it, do we?
    Anyone who thinks this should be removed per game update, you know what to do (sign this petition...).
    signed
    eLhabib

  2. #2
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    You have my support, fellow Martin of the world.

  3. #3
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    I' m tossing my hat in the other side of the ring. In a MP match online, if you are going to stay connected until the race finishes, than you should be able to respawn.

    If they take out respawning, it should automatically drop me back into last place and disconnect me from the match, but that would be a nightmarish netcode to write. No respawns would kill the online community to have people sitting doing nothing because they got bounced out. Especially if it happened right away at the start of a race. Give a penalty for letting someone get blown up, and let them continue playing I say.

    Plus, it gives you opportunity's for revenge
    Last edited by Rubix42; 19th September 2008 at 07:49 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubix42 View Post
    I' m tossing my hat in the other side of the ring. In a MP match online, if you are going to stay connected until the race finishes, than you should be able to respawn.

    If they take out respawning, it should automatically drop me back into last place and disconnect me from the match, but that would be a nightmarish netcode to write. No respawns would kill the online community to have people sitting doing nothing because they got bounced out. Especially if it happened right away at the start of a race. Give a penalty for letting someone get blown up, and let them continue playing I say.

    Plus, it gives you opportunity's for revenge
    Agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egg View Post
    But surely noobs acting like idiots is a problem with any online game? In fact, experienced players spitting their dummies out is equally as bad.
    Worse in my opinion.

  5. #5
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    I think you are exaggerating the downside of no respawns. Im talking about the waiting time. A race is over pretty quickly so having to wait is not a problem i.m.o.

    The first time I was killed and respawned I thought I was just going to be able to have som fun as a ghost until the next race started. But some corners later I realized I was still in the race hehe. That could be a solution for the waiting "problem".

    I think respawns should be turned off by default, but also having the option to turn it on would be best.

    If this cant be achieved, please have a bigger penalty for being eliminated. 30% energy is ok, but respawn time should be longer. Or wait, that is even if you get the option to turn it off completely.

  6. #6
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    I'll have to admit that a race with 8 good pilots and weapons on can be so unforgivingly brutal, that when it kills you on the first lap you are quite thankful for getting respawned I didn't say that. No, no, someone stole my account and typed it using my name...

  7. #7
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    I was pretty open to this at first, now I'm just not sure.

    I wish the respawn had a skill decider, like you can respawn if it was from weapons fire, but if you just got lapped and wipeout from your own lack of skill, see ya next race

  8. #8
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    I am against respawning. Two reasons:
    1) It allows an incompetent but petty racer to muck up the game.
    2) Being eliminated from the race online is, as Darkdrium points out [me too, +1 ], an incentive to get better.

  9. #9
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    Default Mod message.

    I will leave this message here for a short time, but I am deleting the potential flame-war-inducing posts made by some users immediately.

    I'll be blunt about this: Moderation should be left to the moderators. Discussion of post quality and suitability is itself offtopic and should be carried out via PMs to the admin and the mods. And I don't want to see a war start over insulting disparagement of the posts of other users.

  10. #10
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    I don't think he's wanting you to justify your post (although who knows? - he is the Baron of Bluntness), I think he's just prompting you to add to the discussion.

    Personally, I'd rather you gave an example to demonstrate your own take on the subject rather than just quoting someone else. It's fine to quote if you're going to add to what they've said, but otherwise it just makes a post kind of redundant.

    But yeah - what Lance said; moderating should be left to the moderators.

  11. #11
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    I didn't want to jump the gun here so long as you can turn it off. Some clarification would be nice.

    Generally speaking though this is a bullshit 'feature' now the online community has been split up before it even exists because theres no way I'm joining some random game where the moron hoster has re-spawn enabled. And if by some unlikely sheer act of mass stupidity it can't be turned off....

    This looks to detract from the game experience and point of the game why bother replenishing your shields when you know you'll just re-spawn? Theres a difference between making Wipeout accessible and taking it too far this is the latter.

    Support from me.

  12. #12
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    Same here from me!

    stevie

  13. #13
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    You don`t even lose much time when you respawn, it seems I support my fellow Stephens, and the Martins. When you`re dead, you`re dead. Death should be more than just a minor inconvenience.

    Otherwise where is the fear of low shields? And if that`s gone so has half the excitement.

    Maybe it can be turned off though? In which case we can just not use it.

  14. #14
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    The time it consumes being blown up (presumably) would equal you losing a race against pilots who are doing perfect laps and such. Trust me, I think you guys are probably blowing this out of proportion. You die and respawn = lots and lots of time lost. I really doubt the game is gonna throw you back in first or second place.

  15. #15
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    I actually have always wanted that, BUT it should be a excruciating 5 second + penalty before you respawn. Mainly I would like this with multiplayer, but the penalty should be severe. EL, how long exactly is that respawn?

  16. #16
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    Whats that mr Wip3ou7 you think people might be jumping the gun and over reacting on something before trying it and getting all worked up. Well I never !!

    Actually on this issue, I will tell you EXACTLY what happened

    The original design was 'dead is dead' no respawn, however, the online team (who have a far greater experience in online gaming experience than I do) argued respawns were a far better option for more players and indeed implemented respawns by default.

    Ergo I argued, the best option was... well.. .to make it an option. Thing is about multiplayer, the test time is enormous. Bug recreating and fixing is a lengthy process, if you think you know how long it might be, think again, double what you thought and add some.

    When push came to shove we defaulted to respawns on, the code was more solid and it was quicker to test. Respawns off takes longer to test, because you have to cater for extar little things, like the host being eliminated and quitting the game, which is different to them quitting when the game is active and they arent dead, due to the games state machine, etc. In short, respawns off takes longer and it throws up horrible bugs.

    Thats not to say we shouldnt ever do it, but we decided on the safer option for launch. We knew it wouldnt be popular with everyone, but we had to make a call and in the first few weeks when lots of new players are hopefully playing, we felt this would be a less frustrating feature than dying and not getting respawned.
    So due to the ease of implementation and the appeal to newer players we went with respawns on. Having it as an option for launch, wasnt an option.

    Does that mean respawns off wont appear, no. We (the remaining team of which I am not part but I say 'we') are working on implementing several little features to add to the game via updates. Respawns On/Off as a host option I *think* is one of them, though I couldnt swear to it right now.

    But really, you have to realise that decisions are not made blindly, and have a little faith. Calling such things '****' and 'a bullshit feature' and 'stupidity' without understanding the reasoning or indeed fully experiencing the feature... well, I'd consider that far more ill-thought out behaviour.. (not to mention some of the other comments elsewhere, really calling someone a ****ing idiot hardly a way to pursuade them to make a change.. hrm ?)

    There are many things we want to add to the game and alter and tweak, we dont sit there and say, you know what lets do this cos its daft has no reason and will really ****ing annoy people.... things are actually thought through and decisions made for all manner of reasons.
    If everything goes according to the current plan of the team, the game will receive updates (separately to DLC, which is content / data based, I mean tweaks and minor additions) and there will be things added that expand the multiplayer experience. Some small, some hopefully large Indeed I get to spend my weekend helping to design one thing for a game I am no longer involved with whilst others get to work late implementing extra things for a game already released because they care. Not bad for some guys who put in '****' things, 'bullshit features' and make decisions of 'mass stupidity'.

    So have a little faith, it beats tearing hair out in despair
    Last edited by Colin Berry; 19th September 2008 at 09:18 PM.

  17. #17
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    Wow, I feel pretty smart, that almost what I said, only way more official and educated.

    Neat. Looks like the game I'm programming in my free time is teaching me something.
    Last edited by Rubix42; 19th September 2008 at 09:08 PM.

  18. #18
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    "I you set respawn on, they will come"
    -The Holy Book of Online Gaming-

    I don't have a lot of experience with online games, only MGSO, and I hate modes with no respawning when you have to wait 5 minutes each time you die to play again. Never thought wipeout could have a respawning option, but I don't see it as a threat that could ruin de online experience. Anyway, to be able to switch it off will be welcome too.
    Last edited by Nadia Elenova; 19th September 2008 at 09:11 PM.

  19. #19
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    I don't see this as a big deal so long as the respawn time is significant, which it more or less seems to be. I count 4-5 seconds. Hopefully that is a constant amount of time across speed classes because 4-5 seconds is much more significant game-play wise at Phantom speeds than at Flash speeds.

    People are such shits in online games-- personally I think that anything that keeps players from dropping out is a good thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Berry View Post
    Respawns off takes longer to test, because you have to cater for extar little things, like the host being eliminated and quitting the game, which is different to them quitting when the game is active and they arent dead, due to the games state machine, etc. In short, respawns off takes longer and it throws up horrible bugs.
    Interesting, hadn't thought about that issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkdrium777 View Post
    Anything else like this we can know before we buy the game? You had my money when this was WipEout. Now I have doubts again because it has some FPS features in it. Great job. :-


    For ****'s sake, they are only trying to make the game better and more friendly to newcomers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Berry View Post
    There are many things we want to add to the game and alter and tweak..
    Just to let you know Colin, I for the most part am satisfied with your games as they are. Pulse was damn near perfect (for me); I pretty much have next to no complaints. Each iteration had its own personality -- desirable for the most part, but there's nothing throughout the series I would rate as a complete turnoff (except for the single race bug that obliterated my 500+ hour Pulse profile complete with at least a few world records I may never touch again).

    One suggestion however for HD. If you haven't already, balance the single player and online experience for heavier, slower accelerating ships by making them slightly less prone to recoil caused by mines, bombs and missiles (perhaps walls too). I'm Ag-sys loyal, but I want to see my Piranha and Triakis compatriots happy in the long run.

    While you're there, can you fill us in on the sound sets for each ship in HD? Do they each sound different from one another this time as I suspect from the various videos I've seen?

    - F
    Last edited by Flashback Jack; 20th September 2008 at 03:05 AM.

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