Jay's Speed Mod

[Asayyeah]

This discussion has gone too far away, i belong to the minority who think CFW and tip makes the game so much more enjoyable than in an original way of racing, i for one to consider playing with Dpad stick-to-the-track on old wipeouts is pretty boring, negcon and flying technique rule and make the game such awesome. That is my feeling and i am happy with that.
Now i am not stupid nor egocentric, i understand the points from the majority here (same for french site), so i will follow the lines stated by Rob : No tip = i will delete immediately after finishing this post my ntsc pure phantom goteki scores, i will also delete pulse scores ( not that i done them with cfw or tip but it's the 'cleaning'-'wiped-out' day soooo... )
Kai = gimme time to collect and print my records done through Xlink Kai ( even it's easier to race AI ships than humans : big example where the majority can be wrong thinking kai it's so easy to have top scores in SR, tsss tsss tsss) i will delete them after.

Hey! if majority starts to think flying through buildings is not allowed ( it was ok before but maybe new members will think it's not fair afterall and bla-bla-bla), think what? i am gonna also wipe my scores ( 2097/XL/W3OSE).

You look at me as an extremist, right? partially true mates but like someone mentionned it here, we are few top players who don't care about our ranking , we know what we are capable to do and that's fine with us.
So if i find time in future and courage i ll upload 'normal' scores : but as you know the games are dull without (imo) but who cares ??? ah yes only the minority i am belonging.

To conclude :

I found amazing friends here and i am glad to met them personaly in real life ( Asa world wide traveller : and i approve this message ) i also want deeply meet those i haven't ( Lunar, Xtriko, RJO, Frances, El Habib, the aussies strong team, etc...) so my travelling quest is not finished yet but my motivation racing has lowered but again who cares. end of rant.

Btw wipeout-game and me : CFW 333 + tip on ( in order to be clear) // WZ = OFW no tip

Happy majority

[eLhabib]

They can take your records away, son, but they can never, never take your pride away.

Sorry, had to This thread has become way to uneasy...

On a serious side note: I've been watching this discussion from the sidelines (since I don't go about embarrassing myself by posting times), and I fear there is no solution that everyone can be happy with. If you see rules as rules, it is as Rob stated, and everything including CFW, Tape, Shortcutting, and even Xlink Kai is illegal. Don't be angry at him for enforcing those rules, it's not like he wants anyone to be excluded.
On the other hand, I take it from pro pilots like Arnaud, that (as an example) doing SR on Kai doesn't give you any benefit compared to racing the AI. Now if someone as renowned as Arnaud says that, I'll believe it. But if some new kid on the block claims the very same thing, I wouldn't trust him so easily. So we need rules to create a level playing field, and level playing field here also means in terms of credibility. How do we gain that? By cancelling out any source of doubt: *copypaste* CFW, Tape, Shortcutting, and even Xlink Kai. There you go.

So much for my 2 cents.
Hope the whole honor code here doesn't break down over a piece of tape, sheeesh!

[Flashback Jack]

I am waiting on a reply from Flashback_Jack if he is using CFW or not.

I'm loathe to even discuss such things here, fearing attack from bloodthirsty dogmatists, however, I should point out that CFW is not the sole determinant of success some make it out to be. Highly probable point in case -- by sheer number, there are likely far more CFW users situated below the top ten spots on wipeout-game.com than within it. Having said that, plausibly successful results under any firmware (modified or otherwise) is a chiefly a result of effort and experimentation, and I should hope that nobody's effort would be discounted even if they did use CFW sans-hacks, because frankly, around here it's taken on little more than faith that it provides an advantage. Pounce at your leisures.

That's the logic of it as it see it. It should be clear by my post history whether I'm for or against CFW.

Just to put my own experience into perspective, I've been hotlapping racing games since my early teens, on clean consoles as well as modified ones. I've put up world record times on a number of games and won prizes in commercially sponsored competitions. Throughout all of that, two things remained constant -- head-splitting repetition and sweat-inducing persistence. Concerning Pulse, I'm in excess of 350 hours and counting. Persistence, in my opinion, is the main prerequisite to success -- but we know that already. Nobody should even motion to link my or anyone's success to any one element in this gaming equation, particularly an element as static as firmware.

- F

[Lance]

One thing is constant in racing, no matter what set of rules is in effect: The winner is always the person or team that has the best combination of these three things: genetic superiority, the most ferocious desire to win, and the most self-disciplined dedication to achieving the goal.

Actually if you've got number two, number three will naturally follow. You will spend any amount of time and resources to gain victory.

[Asayyeah]

375 entries deleted ( ntsc pure & Pulse )

Seriously speaking and trust me guys: I will NEVER delete my scores from old wipeouts.

if Rob forces me to do this i prefer not to do it myself and leave the site.

[Tomahawk]

Nobody asked you to delete your times at all Asa, be it Pure, Pulse or the older WipEouts. As far as I can follow this thread you chose to do so by yourself and I'm pretty sure Rob wouldn't force anybody to do anything concerning the tables, he said so a few pages before IIRC...

I'm fully respecting Rob's view of things concering the records tables and I must say I fully agree with it after having now read through all the posts in this thread. I also agree with eLhabib about adding to the rules section the facts that using CFW and controller- or console-modding of any kind is not allowed. I'll be deleting my Pure Euro times this weekend (since most of them were done racing online with Kai) and exchange them with times done in single player mode. I've always worked with two profiles, one for online racing and one for offline single player, so this won't be a big deal for me. All my Pure US records are from single player only, so they'll all stay where they are now.

[infoxicated]

I'm not forcing anybody to do anything.

Never have done, never will.

What I'm asking is that people participate within the spirit of the rules.

If any individial feels that this is an imposition on their freedom, then they are free to leave of their own accord.

[Xavier]

Rob, one question if I may: how about times set with the special craft only obtainable in the EU? Wipeout-game.com accepts them, something I find unfair since they separate Wipeout Pulse players into "privileged EU residents" and "second-class people in the rest of the world.

Those craft are at least as difficult to obtain for someone outside the EU as a NeGcon is for someone in it.

(Forgive me if this was debated before; I haven't been a member for that long.)

I race using "what makes the game most enjoyable" -- I'll go back to a standard controller when preparing times for competition (not that I'll ever crack the top 10 in anything). Acquiring a NeGcon was what got me back into Wipeout (and on to this board) -- it turned the original WO from a frustrating, difficult game to an extremely fun and thrilling racer. On the PSP I'd love to try the mod just for fun -- by the time my abilities have risen far enough to be in competition with the greats, I'll probably be able to drive without it.

[Lance]

My opinion: neGcon is a controller officially supported by the built-in programming and menus of Wipeout versions on the original PlayStation. Not supported in Fusion or anything after. So I think it is valid to use one on those games that support it for making record times on the consoles it was made for, but not to hack a way to use it on anything else, nor to modify it to gain an advantage over other neGcons. neGcons are available to anyone who takes the trouble to get one. It is probably hardly any more of a problem to obtain than it is to obtain the games that support it.

[lunar]

Negcons are even supported in the games` software. For me they bring the games to life, and Wipeout 1 feels like it was designed for that controller.

I`d also support a new and explicit "no custom firmware" and "no controller mods" rule. I think the times have changed and something new is needed, so it`s totally clear and it leaves no room for people to interpret the rules in their own way. Also, in the future, people may not have read this thread before they submit times and it would be easier not to have to have these arguments again!

[xEik]

Not supported in Fusion or anything after.

If my memory serves me, NegCons are supported in Fusion.

[stin]

Yes!, in NTSC version.

stevie

[Frances_Penfold]

375 entries deleted (ntsc pure & Pulse )

Bloody ****ing marvelous. I am nearly done assembling a combined ranking system for Wipeout Pure + Pulse and our top competitor pulls half of his records because using a piece of tape on the controller is interpretted by some people as cheating

The last thing Wipeout records need is more exclusivity. As a community, we SUCK at time trial competition-- we have so few participants and for the most parts, our records are **** compared to other franchises like Mario Kart and F-zero. I'd rather have CFW and speed mods used against me any day of the week rather than splintering our existing record system.

"Don't ask don't tell" was better

Happy majority

Is it really the majority? Or a few people that are pissed about their records?

[phl0w]

Yes, NeGcon is supported in Fusion. Not only recognized from the game but officially supported on the back of the box.

The way I see the whole dilemma, if you can even call something as ridiculous as the matter at hand a dilemma, is twofold:
Firstly, pitching your nose up and down is a mechanic coded into the game without abusing a glitch or something. It's not the players' fault that the PSPs shabby d-pad and hardly controllable nub are uncapable of letting you work with that mechanic in the way it was meant, i.e. pitch AND turn.
Secondly, I don't think it's as easy as many think to classifiy a console "unmodified". As the Mario Kart example showed, in the right context a used console can be interpreted as "modified". Given that my d-pad is loose from playing Street Fighter and Tekken so much that pulling off barrel rolls is never a problem (although the game wants them to be one in certain situations, while the devs had them in mind as a 100%-working mechanic- like pitching!), my console would fit into the "modified" scheme because it gives me an advantage over a brand new PSP (flaws from production not even taken into account here!).
As Asa stated, I too think that under CFW with "tip" the game plays as it should, and while CFW can easily be disallowed due to its either-or nature, i.e. being applied to a console or not with all known consequences, I don't think you can go ahead and label a stock console modified or unmodified without taking into account what was described from Francis (was it?) and my humble statement. One of the many consequences will be another wave of accusations which someone at the beginning of the thread mentioned, when he listed ways to spot a "tipper", like observing his craft whether its nose is down or not, although the game allows to do so (to a certain degree) without any aid.

[infoxicated]

On the subject of NegCons, those have never been considered cheating or disallowed.

Don't like them myself, but that's beside the point - it's an officially supported controller, so its use is fair game.

[JABBERJAW]

There have been shortcuts in all of the wipeout games through wipeout 3se, and Rob has not said these are illegal, but part of the game, maybe unwelcome, but part of the game. If they were illegal, I would remove every record since there are shortcuts on every track that give you a few seconds.

Respawning records are different, you jump off the track and respawn at the finish line, these are illegal. There are no tracks in all of the wipeouts up to wo3se that have this problem. then fusion has it (there are no records anyway), and pure and pulse don't have many shortcuts and not respawn at finish line problems, just the die in the middle of the race and the time counts problem which is not allowed here.

I will remove the pulse times this weekend, then put some up when I get back to it again.

[Asayyeah]

At least a good news : old Wipeout scores are kept into the tables and safe.

[infoxicated]

I'm loathe to even discuss such things here, fearing attack from bloodthirsty dogmatists, however, I should point out that CFW is not the sole determinant of success some make it out to be...
...Nobody should even motion to link my or anyone's success to any one element in this gaming equation, particularly an element as static as firmware.

- F

Ever consider a career in politics?

The man asked a straight question - I believe you can do him the courtesy of either answering it or telling him straight that you're not going to comment.

[Medusa]

Frances Penfold quote: "Not all controllers are born equally, and they sure as hell are altered naturally by use. Does that make Medusa's times invalid? Should she sell her PSP to the highest bidder at WOZ because it's an unmod'd controller that behaves like an outlawed mod'd one? That's why simple controller mods are almost always allowed for time trials and speed runs-- it is impossible to level the playing field."

Ah, it's too late for me to profit, Frances, I cleaned the sticky button ages ago, and I've already sold it anyway. Not that anyone here would be looking for a PSP to make them go slower.

The thing that has always been precious to me about WipEout is that although it is impossible to level the playing field, it is possible to keep the playing field fair. The trick with that is to use a playing field where all the participants follow the same rules - the WipeoutZone.

Lunar quote: "I`d also support a new and explicit "no custom firmware" and "no controller mods" rule. I think the times have changed and something new is needed, so it`s totally clear and it leaves no room for people to interpret the rules in their own way. Also, in the future, people may not have read this thread before they submit times and it would be easier not to have to have these arguments again!"

Hear, hear. I agree.

This is a small community, and although I've not been here that long, I can easily guess why that's so, and why there are so few records on the site. Everyone who stays with WipeoutZone is here because they truly love the WipEout genre - more than being number one, more than beating others' times, more than bragging all over the place about how great they are - they love WipEout more than they love themselves.

Nearly everyone who's replied in this thread is really fired up about it, and with good reason. Especially the top pilots, but others too, have spent a lot of time, a lot of their life, trying to be faster in Pure and Pulse.

I have to say it is sad to see so much tension here, so I have to give my advice to everybody - Love the game, and relax! It's not such a hardship to have set rules for everyone here, is it? It's better to know how all the pilots here on the site are racing, because then we can all respect one another evenly.

Besides, the only true way to know who is the fastest is to race one another live, which is possible with Pure and Pulse, and if people want to race their way, away from the record tables, than they can.

We will see better times ahead with HD, right?

*please, SL, no more of this nose-down crap in HD*

[JABBERJAW]

"our records are **** compared to other franchises like Mario Kart and F-zero"


Have you seen the wipeout 3 tables for ntsc, and specifically pal? There are many records on this game, probably because that was the game with the initial records tables. How can it be called **** when in fzero, you can skip the entire freaking track in many races, and get stupid lap times, not to mention having to do idiotic snake technique to get good times. At least in wipeout, if you stick to the track, the most difference would be about a 6 second difference with perfect races both ways. How can it be called **** next to mario kart, where cpu assist is present, making the multiplayer unplayable, not to mention the game is so freaking easy to learn how to play, my 6 year old son can compete.