Yeah, that's probably the underlying subconscious reason why I don't care too much about this so-called mod - it's not like any of my times will be threatened.
Content Contributor
Yeah, that's probably the underlying subconscious reason why I don't care too much about this so-called mod - it's not like any of my times will be threatened.
Vector Pilot
This is complete bullshit and I will not do it.
You can nose down manually, you know.
I'm very disappointed that I'm racing with some cheaters online.
Whatever - its like an extra challenge.
If you beat me I hope it doesn't feel that good and if I beat you I hope it makes you feel worse.
Content Contributor
nosing down manually the entire race is about as fun as cleaning out a chicken coup. It plays better taped down, but I agree in the future, this should not be in the game. The ship should move fastest when perfectly parrallel to the track which is what the pitch was used for in the first place
Zone Pilot
You can certainly hold your own online regardless.Originally Posted by packetmon
Venom Pilot
packetmon 100% I agree with You
Extreme Pilot
Come on guys, this is basically a cheat no matter how you look at it. I totally agree with packetmon.
Veteran Pilot
What do you want guys : you prefer not to reveal that tip and those who used it years ago keep it for themselves and you can't explain why pilots who were racing slightly slower than you on previous wipeouts can beat you easily 15 min after you spotted a new record on Pulse. Now i can understand why.
Sorry to say that but a bad pilot won't turn into great one only by that tip ON. The gain is not so awesome. it's not like an infite turbo autopilote.
Again i find that tip stupid ( in contrario it gives the game a so much awesome feeling) but if no ones talk about that what do you think? this mess will be reproduced again for HD and later games then like Al , Jay or I said previously we want SL will let that tip useless ( reduce speed while reaching a uphill for instance).
Extreme Pilot
I don't agree with this tip, because for me video games have to play with fingers, and only fingers.
(it's not valid for Nintendo Wii or Eye Toy or dance game.)
SL is nice, they let you the choice to play with D-Pad or stick, and some players do like they have three hands. An human non-genetically modified can't naturally play with the stick and D-pad at the same time. If anyone breaks his finger to push up the stick, respect, but it is more legitimate, but I would still disagree.
Do you imagine you playing Wipeout HD with a big rubber band stretched your toe to stick on your controller?
The solution for the future is to activate only the D-pad or stick, and desactive this one that not use.
Now the time displayed on wipeoutgame.com are wrong for me.
Know only that most french players and the bests don't use this tip online.
I respect the fact that this tip makes driving better, makes the game more enjoyable, but in the context of competition and rankings, we should not use it.
Zone Pilot
Thank you. +1
Maybe now that SL's team is now "All Wipeout all the time" some of the other devs could suggest that the tip will be gone in future games. Ditto for barrel rolls. I hope.
Content Contributor
"The solution for the future is to activate only the D-pad or stick, and desactive this one that not use."
Do you really want to play this sort of game trying to hold the stick foward all of the time? It is not fun at all trying to do this, and agree with arnaud that foward should not increase speed, that would solve the entire thing. Just to reiterate, this game sucks trying to hold that nose foward all of the time, so why not just tape it up. It actually plays better anyway. It is possible by the way to not use tape and do this, so only those people that can do this would have the advantage then, so why not let everyone use it.
On a side note, wipeout certainly was not made for a dpad, hence the entire stupid pitch foward problem, either full turn or none at all, so every time you move to the left a millimeter the ship goes all over the place
Extreme Pilot
No offense intended, Packetmon-- you are a superb Wipeout pilot-- but this seems kinda extreme!
I have no intention to implement this "mod" myself but for ****'s sake, guys, this involves a piece of tape and an intended (if unfortunate) in-game racing mechanic. This is small stuff compared to the modifications that ROUTINELY have been done to controllers in most racing games, including racing games with large online communities. Do you really think this is cheating?
Anyway-- where the hell is Rob? It would be good to have his opinion stated on this matter
Phantom Pilot
Pitching down to increase (air) speed is consistent with real world aerodynamics. I personally don't take issue with the effect as it is, manually operated, but my input on this whole speed mod thing is that it makes my ship handle weirdly compared to the usual bouncy nature of the AG-SYS that I'm accustomed to, so I'm not immediately inclined to try it beyond the few laps I ran with it on.
All the while, to think that this is what's required to push my laps even harder assuming everything else falls into place, I may eventually adapt, but truth be told -- I'm not a fan of it.
- F
Moderator
Legendary Pilot
"Pitching down to increase (air) speed is consistent with real world aerodynamics."
Only if one is diving an aircraft into a sustained elevation drop. Otherwise, pitching while moving forward on a level would cause increased form drag resistance by changing the craft's attitude relative to airflow. Aircraft are designed to produce minimum air resistance and maximum velocity in level flight, so any variation from that will cause a speed loss. Once a sustained dive is established, the craft is again level relative to the airflow and additionally has the acceleration of gravity, which is what actually increases speed.
Vector Pilot
Ya, its really funny Frances_Penfold.
People put thousands of laps down to place high and along come those with disrespect unbridled to post jacked times not only on wipeout-game but wipeoutzone.
Oh wait... we have to hear from Rob to see if its cheating.
With all due respect Rob, if you think this is not cheating or whatever they want to call it and allow "it" on the boards then please delete my record entries along with my account.
Make a separate record table for every mod that makes the game "play better".
I'll learn some basic french terms and join Kaori and others on the french site.
I've taken a look at some of KANDANGs times and they are plausible.
I don't know the dude so I have no idea if he is cheating.
But take for example Fort Gale White.
I've hit 24:60s on the first lap and 23:70s on subsequent laps.
Do the math - its just a matter of running all the laps right and I don't have a clue what kind of advantage an Icaras would provide because stupid whore Sony still owes me one.
Founder/Developer
Legendary Pilot
It's no more cheating than re-wiring the buttons on a negcon is to assist your performance.
Linky (Martin Linklater, who was lead programmer on Pure) explained to me that it was merely a side effect of the way he'd written the anti-gravity generator. It has a downward force, and when you tip the ship forward you angle that force and it drives you forward.
I have no dice with that, because Linky attempted to give WipEout real-world based physics for the first time on a brand new platform, and for that he should be commended.
The fact that some folk have taken the slim advantage to extremes is neither here nor there - it cant be policed, so we have to rely on the honour system prevailing on a personal level - if somebody does think it's a cheat, then don't use it and bathe in the warm glow of contentment. But be prepared for the fact that not everyone will share your world view.
// is convinced we've been through this before with another game.
Zone Pilot
What is "Wip3out", Alex?
Moderator
Legendary Pilot
Hmm.... searches memory...
Quite possibly!
Extreme Pilot
Wipeout-Game is ****ed beyond all recognition due to CFW and software-based mods, so that's no fault of some small controller modification.
I apologize-- I'm not trying to make light of the situation-- I also race laps 1000's of times to get the perfect line through a course. I don't plan to use the speed mod and who knows, it may cost me some rankings.
But the effect of this speed mod is really small-- I tried it and couldn't see any noticeable effect. It's certainly much, Much, MUCH smaller an effect than the results of practice on these tracks.
I mean, look at the lap rankings in Pure-- Asayyeah and Mad-Ice sit perched at the top, generally some 0.5 to 2 seconds ahead of the nearest competitors, with no speed mod or other cheating employed. If I practice and practice and practice a given track, I can get times that are 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th place. If I want to break that barrier, I need to practice more and hit more consistent barrel rolls-- that is much more important than using the "speed mod" if you are already using some pitch control, as most of us are.
Also, no offense to our very talented pilots here, some of whom are diligent at posting times even when they haven't had a chance to refine their runs at a particular track. But the folks that have used the speed mod-- well, they aren't exactly sitting atop the charts, are they? There is no evidence that using the mod has put them at an unfair advantage.
Anyway, that is my $0.02. Here is hoping that nothing like this is a factor for Wipeout HD
Last edited by Frances_Penfold; 22nd August 2008 at 05:56 PM.
Phantom Pilot
If I may:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=30
Prior to that accomplishment, I was sitting at the top of that table for at least two months (my run was virtually flawless; a mere half second separates us). Immediately after said mod was announced, I was subsequently throttled on other tracks I held first place positions on as well. Metropia White Phantom (race) and Vertica White Phantom (race) to name two. The one thing I can tell you for certain is that after the mod was made known, there was a noticeable flurry of activity on the record tables that saw either myself or Kandang shifted out of first place positions at a rate incomparable to what happened before it.
I said before I'm not a fan of this mod, and I may not need it to secure top spots on most tracks, but if I comes down to having to adapt and use it, reluctantly I will.
- F
Last edited by Flashback Jack; 22nd August 2008 at 06:34 PM.
Content Contributor
Frances: then why can't we say the same about Custom Firmware? I'm sorry folks but let's just forget the fact that Colin and Egg come over here and may not like such discussion (specially if it involves illegal activities, which I understand) for a few seconds and think about it...
Does 333Mhz really provided that much of an advantage? Like you said for the speed mod, is it the 333Mhz that makes the pilot better, or constant practise, hitting all the BRs (If you practise enough, you can get them all without 333Mhz), finding the perfect racing line, etc.?
All I'm trying to do is make you realize that you simply can't ban one and take the other. That is completely contradictory.
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