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Thread: another (new) IGN preview

  1. #41
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    Burnout 2 and 3 were awesome games, but after that, it started to go downhill, and Burnout Paradise is one of the most boring and most skill-denying games I have ever played.

  2. #42
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    eh OK, I guess I sort of understand...what challenges the wipers is the (comparative) lack of skill, rather than the qualities of fun that can be derived. I'd rather be able to play two distinct games, which is what people here are arguing for. They want wipeout to be elitist and challenging with zero concessions and total skill, rather than a game that's accessible for everyone but little skill (again, comparatively) required.

    how close am I?

  3. #43
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    For me, spot on, though maybe my choice of words would be different. I love Burnout actually, Revenge being a fave on my 360. Easy to see why it's a popular game. I also think Burnout is just an easy example to name here.

    But I guess the point isn't Burnout itself. For me, it's that all I'm hearing is what's being done to make the games more accessible to mainstream gamers, not what's being done to make these better WO games. The team seems determined to capture a market that is well catered for already and has little interest in the things that have made WO what it is. WO is not that game.

    Or rather, it wasn't. But, hey, things change.

    I think you get the gist. It's not really Burnout hate. Or it certainly isn't from me. That's just an example of a different type of gaming.

  4. #44
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    you can't see it black and white like that. wipEout has always been a tough game to master, and a big portion of the fun ace pilots get out of it is mastering the tracks themselves to perfection. The fact that there are huge Time Trial records tables is proof of the skill it takes to master wipEout.
    But it's not all just about skill, of course a game like Burnout is great fun, too. Messing around with stunts and crashes, even heated online battles. But everytime you get beat because of an incident other than your own lack of skill compared to the guy who beat you, you get frustrated because it wasn't YOUR mistake. It was the mistake of a game that gives the guy behind you more boost power to bring the field together and provide more action (as seen in every Burnout since Revenge). So the guy just hangs back behind you, collecting boost, and then speeds past you on the finish straight.
    Not to mention that successfully navigating most Burnout tracks is more reliant on luck than on pure ability. Of course, dodging traffic is a whole lot of fun, but it doesn't provide for a fair race. Don't get me wrong, I had a TON of fun with Burnout games before, just not the level of fun I get out of wipEout games.
    In general it can be said that for me (and for a lot of people on this forum, I guess) a game has to be hard and unforgiving to a certain degree, otherwise it will get boring very soon.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by eLhabib View Post
    In general it can be said that for me (and for a lot of people on this forum, I guess) a game has to be hard and unforgiving to a certain degree, otherwise it will get boring very soon.
    Especially racing games - I'm all with you! At the same time, that's precisely the point where "casual" gamers split from the "hardcore" crowd (hate the labelling, but that's another story). Unfortunately, this also is exactly where so called "gamer's games" struggle with finding a balance between serving a core audience on the one hand and attracting newcomers on the other. See games like Grand Prix Legends or Rollcage for reference. I don't know if I wanted to be in SL's position, trying to find a solution there instead of spending more time on the core mechanics...

    Thumbs up for what they did and still do to keep WipEout alive! Because so far, they left the formula intact (barrel roll discussion is elsewhere *g*), so we should be grateful. Forget nitpicking Pilot Help - it probably won't be an issue for any of us when HD is released. And if it _where_ to be an issue, we can still go put the blame on SL... later!

    Ben

  6. #46
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    i recommend everyone here to go on the image gallery there on ign website.. I can't decide which one is best for my desktop

  7. #47
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    Hmm, I definitely agree that a game has to provide a challenge to be fun, and I have enjoyed wipEout in that capacity in the past and presently (Asa is my personal idol!) but as I age, my taste in games has grown more diverse. I am a wiper returning to former racing glory (brief stint with fusion, other than that wip3out when I first got my PSX), but no longer am I the elite level with wipEout that I used to be. What I think is best is an accessible game with a gentle beginning learning curve, but one that takes an exponential graph-like curve. You should be my mother passing vector, but someone like kiTTun or orgy to be getting straight golds in phantom. Essentially, a person can have fun with video games and enjoy wipEout, or they can enjoy a challenge and enjoy wipEout. I don't see the need for a happy medium or either extreme.

  8. #48
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    El wrote "But it's not all just about skill, of course a game like Burnout is great fun, too. Messing around with stunts and crashes, even heated online battles. But everytime you get beat because of an incident other than your own lack of skill compared to the guy who beat you, you get frustrated because it wasn't YOUR mistake. It was the mistake of a game that gives the guy behind you more boost power to bring the field together and provide more action (as seen in every Burnout since Revenge). So the guy just hangs back behind you, collecting boost, and then speeds past you on the finish straight."


    Right on El,
    this ruined weapon racing in wipeout 64, wrecked multiplayer hydrothunder, artic thunder, wipeout fusion(leader weapons, can turn off though, so I guess that is fine), multi star wars racer(Very funny actually because if a person is not skilled at this game, it makes them go at boost speed because they are behind, and all they do is blow up constantly), and the reason I really dislike burnout and mario kart. Damn, why get good at the game if anyone can keep up with you, makes no sense. it's fun at first, but when you get the same race every time within one second, why bother

  9. #49
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    The old TestDrive games were like that, too. At least TestDrive Five was. Terrible game. Rubber band boost at the end of the race. I tried so hard to like the game, but I couldn't. Hated it instead and never bought another in the series.

  10. #50
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    This is kind of getting off topic, but I noticed many threads here do, haha.

    Anyway, to further that, what do wipers think of another totally skill-based genre: shmups (like R-Type and Gradius)? I find myself gravitating towards those kinds of games in general (Unreal Tournament, fighting games, shmups, wipEout), but I also find the more I play them, the more I need some dull, mindless game to be addicted to simultaneously (currently, Diablo 2 -- can it get more mindless?)

    To make it concise: do wipers like 100% skill games only, and if they like them more than others, do they usually play other games on the side?

  11. #51
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    I don't like sims, I prefer an arcade-y feel to my games.
    a game that can be enjoyed without skill, but enjoyed for different reasons if you get good at it is what I am after.

    games that pull out random BS to level the playing field (like mario kart's blue shells) annoy me when I start getting good
    games with a really high barrier to entry, but that get fun once you acquire some ability (eg: supreme commander) don't often survive the barrier stage

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by taqili View Post
    This is kind of getting off topic, but I noticed many threads here do, haha.
    8 ) It's a longstanding tradition.

    To answer your question, I'm definitely all about the games of skill. I think that's what's really being bemoaned, when one of the few true skill-based games gets dumbed down.

    At the same time though, yes, mindless fun always has its place. 8 )

    The hours I've sunk into Panda Pang and Sinjid (online browser games) can definitely attest to that...

    I think the worst games are the ones that try to look like skill-based games, but due to certain mechanics can be almost turned into mindless fun. In the process, it becomes neither, and ends up as landfill.

  13. #53
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    The floatiness and speed of Pulse and Pure alone are enough to make them an intense challenge for the "casual gamer."

    Want proof? I had my PSP on the bus to a theatre convention and passed the game around. With Medium difficulty on Flash speed in Pulse, and at the Talon's Junction White track, I tried to see if anyone could just finish a four-lap race. Five players later, someone finally did - albeit in dead last, where everyone finished if they did. None of these fellow students had ever heard of the Wipeout games prior to me showing them...

    So to say that features like barrel rolls, sideshifts, mag-locks, and the new pilot assist will all dumb the game down to something as bare-bones as Burnout (great game series until the EA influence reallly got a hold, now it's just good) frankly is an insult. The elitism that I'm hearing recently - that all future games in the series must be as hard as WO3 on Phantom on every speed level or risk "selling out" - it's about as bad as from 2D fighting fans who practically killed their genre with their snootiness.

  14. #54
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    I think we were worried that something new that is stupid is going to wreck the next game. IF the auto assist was faster than good piloting, that would be stupid, but as Colin and El pointed out, it is much slower, therefore not too much more complaining from anyone. If computer assistance to the person behind(more turbos, faster ship) was to be implemented, that would wreck the game, basically creating another artic thunder(shudders). People want the game to be based around skill, not some damn luck, or the computer thinking my son Rennie should keep up with me so it gives him a speed boost of 500kph, and no shield loss.

    Good example of this. Anyone play Ridge racer 7? Well you can enter someones draft from 300 meters away from them, and immediately catch up, basically creating everyone to be within 2 seconds at the end. This is not fun after a short period of time, especially after seeing how good the controls work and the good racing required to aquire turbo. Now there was a add on you could do to stop others from drafting you, but I am not sure if you could have online races like that.
    Last edited by JABBERJAW; 3rd April 2008 at 02:32 PM. Reason: bad grammar

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