How much better would this game look at 333 cpu?

[Asayyeah]

Thx for clearing this up, Colin

I let open the thread if people are ok for not derailling the subject into a war of FW.
Let's see how things go on

[bastienrehm]

Very nice explanation indeed, thanks for taking the time to write it.

[JABBERJAW]

Just so you know. CFW at 333 does work online. I tested with Isaac(my nephew) and it did run smoother(we tested all configs 333vsdefault, ect). Very noticeable on outpost. this is not only tenths of a second, but probably about 4 seconds on a track like that due to the smoothness. Other tracks like Metropia, or amphesium are probably more like 1-2 seconds as long as you are used to the choppy sections at default. Even in TT it is an advantage on tracks like outpost. Everyone who plays each other, should at least let the other know what they are playing on, so for example when somehow arnaud beats me in a race, I know that he is playing 333

Summary:

1)To say there is no advantage is not correct, and the advantage online is somewhere between 1 and 4 seconds depending on the track(roughly).

2) To enter 333 times online is cheating, unless everyone did it. Don't get me wrong, I love playing at 333, and it is certainly more enjoyable, but will not take advantage of it for records on the tables or an advantage online.

[Lion]

...One of Sonys current regulations is if a game allows 333 it has to be tested at 333 and at the standard cpu speed...

...well it had already been put back to implement the psn sign in, rather than a bespoke one...

I have no problems with the limitations on use of 333, but what is standard speed now? still 222? or now 266?

Thankyou for making pulse use PSN login, that's a very cool feature in my opinion

[stin]

Lunar and Al, Excellent posts.
It`s boils down to common sense.

Thank you Colin for clearing it up.

stevie

[phl0w]

I'd like to know too. As of now I play on "default" which certainly runs choppier than Pulse on OFW. Still, I managed to clock some good times despite my playing "handicapped", it's motivating

Thanks for the heads-up. Although there's no information on how differently the engine behaves under 333. Fine, there were no tests, but simple maths could solve that too, when one, i.e. the devs, knows the game engine in and out.
If I entered a record achieved under 333 you'd notice it, because I have another profile for playing @333, it's called flo333^^. So, if I may upload that profile by mistake let me know. Although my times on that profile suck, because investing time in records that are worth nothing is a waste of time, so I hardly play with that profile.

Anyway, what I don't understand though is, why the PSN login feature had priority, when on wipeout-game.com "where the big world is involved" there's no possibility to know what times are "valid" and which are not... When you know there's never going to be an even playing field (and the number of CFW users is growing steadily, ironically enough partly because of Pulse's glory under the PSP's full processing power), why have official online rankings? I only know of this forum here that considers added clockspeed something evil. In every other forum where Pulse gets discussed, the general consensus is that NOT playing the game at 333mhz is stupidity Going by that, no ranked time or online game that involves anybody but WOZ members can be trusted. Don't get me wrong, I WANT an even playing field and I want to compete fair and square too! The whole thing just doesn't make sense from the developer's point of view. Sony doesn't care about CFW users in the first place, Colin Berry and SL on the other hand apparently have strict limitations on how their game should be like and when its sales have to kick in. At the same time the game gets dumbed down with the argument that "hardcore" gamers will find their challenge competing online, although everybody (inlcuding SL) knows that public online competition is never going to be fair. Something's wrong in the whole picture and the one that suffers is Pulse, and Wipeout in the long run.

[Rapier Racer]

Those official tables will also be used for HD (I imagine). As far as I know the PS3 doesn't have 'custom firmware' as such and there aren't any of those cheat disks (xploder/action replay etc) so with any luck all should be good.

[Colin Berry]

The tables are monitored but there is no concrete way of detecting the firmware version from the uploaded save file. As the save file does not store the FW ver, and even if it did, people could hack round it. Hence hacked times has gone up previous, but we are endevouring to montior and remove these things, it is however all relatively new system wise and there are many wheels and cogs to move to make thinsg happen. A website for a game, and we provide support after release. .. . . . that is a foreign to sony as the thought of mcdonalds serving health food 5years ago, but we (as a company) are learning and adapting.

AFAIK Had we not used PSN login and gone with a bespoke system, all support for it and servers would have been shut down by now or within months of release. Basically had we pushed out Pulse in september without PSN login, the ability to play online wouldnt exist come january.
Sony was not going to set up the ability for all games to support PSN, and then support a separate system to PSN at the same time. When it could kill two birds with one stone.


Unfortunately there is not a lot we an do to counter hackers or people using CFW except attempt to monitor the tables and remove times we deem impossible /achieved via cheats

You'll find it with many games unfortunately, I play warcraft a fair bit, I've seen some people using cheats and hacks it is (one of) the most popular games in the world right now, people will cheat because some people are that way inclined and you cant prevent it all.
Governments can bring in motoring laws, but that cant stop people breaking the law, they can just try and catch and prevent, it might nto be the best analogy but I am typing quick and its Friday afternoon.

I hate the fact people hack the game I (and many others) have slaved two years over and then deliberately ruin it for others, I think the forum swear filter would melt if I told you exactly what I would do to such people given the chance, you have no idea just how violent I would get with some of these people who think its cool, funny and fun to ruin other peoples fun and destory something we crafted, it makes me angry jsut typing and thinking about it tbh.... but on the positive side, we learn lessons, and improve, in all aspects from prevention to counter measures. Believe me we share the frustration knowing there are people out there hacking the game playing online and ruining the experience for others, but no matter what you do, no matter what you try you cant stop a **** from being a ****

[JABBERJAW]

Unfortunately, playing at default, it is possible to achieve the times that 333 can achieve, it just takes more time to get in a good run due to slower framerate. I say it is faster on average, meaning if you picked up the game, played outpost one time on default, wrote your time down, then played on 333 and wrote it down, it would probably be about 4 seconds faster just due to the smoothness, BUT with practice and alot of runs, you can get the same time, it might just take you 4 times as long to get it.

Personally, I love 333, its quite obvious when playing pulse, that is how it should run, absolutely amazing. I recommend that two psps should be used at least for woz members regarding the record times(one fast for your own, and one for record tables). If you are playing online, you should tell the person if you are playing at the fast speed, or just play with other people who play at that speed, since you can set up private rooms. It would be nice to know who plays on what, at least on wipeoutzone.

[Vincent_VII]

^^totally agree

And labeling online rooms for different speeds is a great idea.

[bastienrehm]

I did run test on default and 333 up to rapier class and honestly there's no significant time difference between the runs, phantom might be a different story though.

My own personal results never showed a difference over 0.5 seconds, so I don't really see how a 4 seconds difference is even possible.

I haven't tried phantom like I said but it if there's one class in which it should help, at least a bit, it's on phantom.

Don't take my results as a general rule, I encourage you to test yourself. To me it seems like at either clock speed you have to get used to the animation before your times can truly shine, and for me, up to rapier, there's no difference.

[JABBERJAW]

Play single race, hard, outpost white on default, phantom, then play at 333 same conditions. There is a severe difference. The frame rate difference on multiplayer is significant for some tracks, especially when the weapons go off and there are more than two players racing

[phl0w]

on default

That's the problem. My experience showed that Pulse does not run equally good on CFW set to default as Pulse on OFW. It's much choppier and suffers from even worse framerates. So as long as there's no clarity about which clockspeed runs the game under CFW like on OFW, one could always argue about the invalidity of times achieved with a modified PSP.
BTW, good idea about that private rooms online thing. WOZ members could arrange the terms of races/ tourneys in IRC.

[Asayyeah]

Your tests joined mine Al
There's an obvious difference on few tracks and especially racing online.
I have 2 psps, 2 separate profiles and raced few times with 1 psp in default mode and 333 online , btw i was 'FCK-cheaters', default is the speed who is the closest to the OFW but again that is not the same feeling racing, 333 is way faster in a sense that you aren't affected by slowdowns ( or largely less )

Like Al suggested it should be cool to know who is running with what and at what speed.
If people are ok into their User CP from the site, edit their profile and add OFW, CFW default or CFW 333.
Edit : i am not forcing anyone, do what you want to do pilots , this is only a suggestion i will follow myself.

[JABBERJAW]

so running at default is a little slower on cfw and puts you at a disadvantage. How much slower does it run than ofw?

[bastienrehm]

Someone mentioned something about not being sure Pulse ran at 222 or 266, I guess this is a partial answer.

CFW doesn't mean much btw as there are many cfws out there with different effects. (In fact some cfws allow you to run the game at 22 mhz or even slower... I haven't tried but that's gotta suck)

So what I'm guessing from this is that some custom cfws "believe" the default is 222 and force 222 even if the game as a default of 266. So here "default" doesn't mean "behave like ofw" but rather "run at old ofw fixed game frequency regardless of game specs".

My two cents.

I agree with Asayyeah, I'll enter that info in my profile.

[Vincent_VII]

Asayyeah, ahhhhhhhh that was you (FCK-Cheaters). Those were some good races.

bastienrehm, right. I believe that most CFW "default" settings force the PSP to 222mhz, regardless. I have tried Pulse out on a couple of CFW PSPs and it feels "stock" when forcing the settings to 266mhz. Default runs horribly clunky.

[JABBERJAW]

that would make sense. Was there ever an official reply as to what the game really runs at 222 or 266?

[Vincent_VII]

No. Colin never answered that. But with my findings, I would assume 266.

[Frances_Penfold]

Those of you that have done tests-- how much of an effect does the 333 have on Time Trials and Speed Laps?

I don't really care about effects on multiplayer. But I do worry that, in the end, we will all have to use CFW at 333 to participate competitively in time trialing-- because the broader Wipeout community will be split about its use.

The option mentioned above-- about including the clock speed in the username-- is an interesting alternative, as it allows people to do what they want but also be transparent about it. It would be pretty messy however if ALL time trial competitors maintained two seperate accounts, one run at default at 266 and a second at 333.

I dislike the concept of CFW as, for many users, it is a tool for piracy. I also dislike the tomfoolery involved with implementing it, and so far have only used official Sony firmware on my PSPs.

But I wonder about the inevitability factor here-- that in the end, in 6 months or a year, to play Wipeout Pulse competitively, if we will be forced to run at 333