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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down 10 Things I hate about WipEout 3

    First, a bit of background:

    I started with the original Wipeout back in '95 at the PlayStation launch. I played the hell out of the demo, and I purposely timed out during the game just so I wouldn't have to face those loading screens again. I even forced my cousin to get a copy so I could see those extra weapons in Link Mode! I'm not sure I unlocked Firestar (I did a few weeks ago on my PSP, though)... but I at least unlocked Rapier.

    Then one day I came home and I saw the Wipeout XL intro, which was the coolest thing ever. It was was one of the few games for the PS1 that I was really, really looking forward to. I got good enough to beat Challenge II and earned the Piranha ship with Qirex.

    For some reason, my brother got an N64, but at least he got Wipeout 64 too. The control was kinda nice, I guess... but those new weapons sucked. I don't really remember how far I got in that game. I think I unlocked Piranha, or something.

    I had heard about Wipeout 3, but I didn't really care for it and didn't bother getting it. "Surely," I thought, "Wipeout XL was the best Wipeout game and always will be!"

    And for a long while, it looks like that was true. For better or worse, I never even heard of Wipeout Fusion (I imported a Japanese PS2 at launch, so Tekken Tag Tournament was my main), and I didn't want a PSP of my own until I saw my brother playing Wipeout Pure.

    With all this talk about PS1 games on PSP, I decided to hunt around for Wipeout 3. I paid $1 plus $5 shipping on eBay, and having now played it, that's about as high as I'd pay...


    1. Right off the bat, you have the WORST intro ever. Not just among Wipeout games, but... ever. In any game. I honestly thought my game was defective, but then... no. The music doesn't fit - certainly not inspiring (like the original), not sweat-inducing (like XL), and not pure and awesome (like Pure). I guess the team logo part was cool, but then... "Piranha" was misspelled. Seriously, what the hell?

    2. Next, you have the hard-to-read, confusing, ugly-as-sin menu. Let's be honest - it could have been done on the NES. No track previews for the sake of "simplicity?" Lame. And why can't I hit up or down on the d-pad to actually select the track and ship, even though it sure LOOKS like I can? Instead I have to hit left and right, which is... kinda stupid. Who would have thought functionality only got WORSE in the future?

    3. Then if you manage to get a race started without wanting to kill yourself, you realize that most of the tracks are also extremely ugly with their dark, drab colors. And maybe it's just my monitor, but all that darkness made the game literally unplayable as early as... well, Porto Kora (moreso, anyway).

    4. No actual lap display. Because nice, big numbers would have been too easy on the eyes, especially in the middle of the race.

    5. The ships are TOO quiet. Dammit, I LIKED that subtle "fizzzzz" in XL. There's almost none of that in 3. There's not even a sound for Hyper-thrust, so I don't even feel like I'm going hyper-fast.

    6. Crappy weapons. Force wall? Reminds me of Wipeout 1 when you'd successfully hit a ship with your rocket, only to create a huge roadblock that you'd have to try REALLY hard to avoid. Reflector? So for 10 seconds or so, I'm supposed to switch from "please oh please don't hit me omg" to "HA HA!! Hit me now! But only RIGHT NOW and for the next few seconds, and NOT with Mines!" More often than not, it seems to be there just so the computer can legitimately stop you from using Energy Drain. And Cloak? Who cares. Just more weapons I have to cycle through in order to get the not-as-satisfying Quake or the now-ugly Rockets...

    7. No ACTUAL Turbo means Hyper-thrust is required... which means as far as pickups go, the Energy Drain pickup is also the Turbo pickup... which makes Feisar suck.

    8. The voice during the race tells you the weapon YOU got. Were people actually clamoring for this? So now when I'm about to get hit by a weapon, all I get is "WARNING!" It's just not as satisfying when you stop without knowing exactly what hit you. It's as though the computer just says, "HEY, YOU STOP NOW."

    9. Really bad ping-pong effects. The slow Auto Pilot doesn't help things, either. I never realized how much I missed that THUNK from the original Wipeout.

    10. And finally, UNLOCKING EVERYTHING IS A CHORE. Unlike in Wipeout Pure, I almost dreaded getting golds in Wipeout 3 because that just meant I'd just have to slug through more tracks with ships I really don't like.


    I'll admit that the game is not all bad. Music is opinion, as always, and while I did like most of it, I can't say that it was racing music. The fact that the music stayed during a pause or restart was nice, and the loading times were nice and quick.

    (Still... I hate this game and everyone who enjoys it more than XL or Pure!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei
    (Still... I hate this game and everyone who enjoys it more than XL or Pure!)

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    Well, that blows. wip3out was brilliant. I expected more, especially since it was the final WipEout console game that came before 2008 that is good. I'll agree about the left - right thing, I've never understood that.
    Last edited by mdhay; 6th February 2008 at 05:43 PM.

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    Wow...
    ...
    Wip3out was great. Both graphics and gameplay.
    I do agree with some of your points. But still it was a revolution.


    Right off the bat, you have the WORST intro ever. Not just among Wipeout games, but... ever. In any game. I honestly thought my game was defective, but then... no. The music doesn't fit - certainly not inspiring (like the original), not sweat-inducing (like XL), and not pure and awesome (like Pure). I guess the team logo part was cool, but then... "Piranha" was misspelled. Seriously, what the hell?
    1st yes i didn't like the intro, that i agree.
    2nd Piranha wasn't misspelled. In english people say "Piranah" That's why its like that i think.


    Next, you have the hard-to-read, confusing, ugly-as-sin menu. Let's be honest - it could have been done on the NES. No track previews for the sake of "simplicity?" Lame. And why can't I hit up or down on the d-pad to actually select the track and ship, even though it sure LOOKS like I can? Instead I have to hit left and right, which is... kinda stupid. Who would have thought functionality only got WORSE in the future?
    I can read everything pretty well. The only thing i can't read well is the Ship Statistics.

    The Track preview yes i agree they should have put at least an image for us to see.

    The fact that we can't go up and down while selecting tracks and ships also bothers me so i agree.

    Then if you manage to get a race started without wanting to kill yourself, you realize that most of the tracks are also extremely ugly with their dark, drab colors. And maybe it's just my monitor, but all that darkness made the game literally unplayable as early as... well, Porto Kora (moreso, anyway).
    I iz disagree. The tracks are pretty cool, Porto Kora is one of my favourites and its pretty well designed!

    No actual lap display. Because nice, big numbers would have been too easy on the eyes, especially in the middle of the race.
    err... what? lower left corner...?

    The ships are TOO quiet. Dammit, I LIKED that subtle "fizzzzz" in XL. There's almost none of that in 3. There's not even a sound for Hyper-thrust, so I don't even feel like I'm going hyper-fast.
    Actually the sound fits pretty well, and when you use the Hyper-thrust the sound changes :/

    Crappy weapons. Force wall? Reminds me of Wipeout 1 when you'd successfully hit a ship with your rocket, only to create a huge roadblock that you'd have to try REALLY hard to avoid. Reflector? So for 10 seconds or so, I'm supposed to switch from "please oh please don't hit me omg" to "HA HA!! Hit me now! But only RIGHT NOW and for the next few seconds, and NOT with Mines!" More often than not, it seems to be there just so the computer can legitimately stop you from using Energy Drain. And Cloak? Who cares. Just more weapons I have to cycle through in order to get the not-as-satisfying Quake or the now-ugly Rockets...
    Solution: press []

    No ACTUAL Turbo means Hyper-thrust is required... which means as far as pickups go, the Energy Drain pickup is also the Turbo pickup... which makes Feisar suck.
    50% agreed. I missed the turbo item in this game, bt Hyper-thrust was a good way to replace it.

    The voice during the race tells you the weapon YOU got. Were people actually clamoring for this? So now when I'm about to get hit by a weapon, all I get is "WARNING!" It's just not as satisfying when you stop without knowing exactly what hit you. It's as though the computer just says, "HEY, YOU STOP NOW."
    I don't really mind... they only use a few weapons so its predictable.

    Really bad ping-pong effects. The slow Auto Pilot doesn't help things, either. I never realized how much I missed that THUNK from the original Wipeout.
    ...?

    And finally, UNLOCKING EVERYTHING IS A CHORE. Unlike in Wipeout Pure, I almost dreaded getting golds in Wipeout 3 because that just meant I'd just have to slug through more tracks with ships I really don't like.
    Oh cmon! it was fun!

    Btw i love pure, pulse and 2097/XL more than wipeout 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Se View Post
    ...?
    Well, when you go really fast and need to turn but hit the wall, you'd end up going back and forth... a lot. Just yesterday I did a Hyper-thrust on P-Mar Project (I think) and needed to turn, but I bounced off the walls, like, 5 times before I was able to go forward again. And yeah, I'm pretty sure Auto Pilot slows you down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Se View Post
    Btw i love pure, pulse and 2097/XL more than wipeout 3
    Excellent!

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    wow, i thought Wipeout 3 was one of the best

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    a brilliantly written troll made me laugh

    there's a couple of points in there I agree with too (pirhana, menus, hyperthrust, "warning")
    overall though, I still prefer it to WipEout original, but XL/2097 just edges it out as my favourite on the PS One

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    Blah blah blah

    1. The voice during the race tells you the weapon YOU got. Were people actually clamoring for this? So now when I'm about to get hit by a weapon, all I get is "WARNING!" It's just not as satisfying when you stop without knowing exactly what hit you. It's as though the computer just says, "HEY, YOU STOP NOW."


    (Still... I hate this game and everyone who enjoys it more than XL or Pure!)
    This was easily the biggest flaw ever in the entire series... unfortunately, it carried on into Fusion.

    Thank GOD it was done away with in HD, or it would have simply RUINED the experience.


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    "Thank GOD it was done away with in HD, or it would have simply RUINED the experience."

    mm... Just possibly an overstatement.

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    Most certainly one! ;)

    As a matter of fact, I remember that after having played WO3 for a while I got used to the then new system and actually started anticipating from where I'd be hit after a "Warning". Kind of made me more aware of the other contenders, which I can't say was a bad thing. I still prefer the announcment of what's being shot at or laid out for you, but not having to make the ever-so-slightly distracting look at the HUD icon was sort of a relief, too. :)

    Ben

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    I'm not sure whether it would work well or not but I'd like to try this:
    -Female voice tells you what you picked up.
    -Male voice tells you what is being fired at you.

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    I don't see why you need to be told what you picked up. That's what the weapon icons are for, no? 2 voices would be confusing imo.

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    I realize that it's kind of silly to rebut a two-year-old post, but I feel compelled to defend my favorite racing game ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    Right off the bat, you have the WORST intro ever. Not just among Wipeout games, but... ever. In any game. I honestly thought my game was defective, but then... no. The music doesn't fit - certainly not inspiring (like the original), not sweat-inducing (like XL), and not pure and awesome (like Pure). I guess the team logo part was cool, but then... "Piranha" was misspelled. Seriously, what the hell?
    I know, right? Who asked for a fake-looking explosion played backwards in slo-mo? And who's the idiot who put the H after the R in Piranha? It's the kind of mistake that a third-grader would make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    Next, you have the hard-to-read, confusing, ugly-as-sin menu. Let's be honest - it could have been done on the NES. No track previews for the sake of "simplicity?" Lame. And why can't I hit up or down on the d-pad to actually select the track and ship, even though it sure LOOKS like I can? Instead I have to hit left and right, which is... kinda stupid. Who would have thought functionality only got WORSE in the future?
    True, the menus were awful. I like the visual aesthetic, but there isn't anything approaching good ergonomics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    Then if you manage to get a race started without wanting to kill yourself, you realize that most of the tracks are also extremely ugly with their dark, drab colors. And maybe it's just my monitor, but all that darkness made the game literally unplayable as early as... well, Porto Kora (moreso, anyway).
    It has to be your monitor. (You're playing on an emulator?) Porto Kora is actually quite bright, in a sort of late-afternoon way. Even the darkest tracks like Sampa Run and Manortop have plenty of lights to keep everything clear - they're certainly brighter than most of the tracks in the first two games!

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    No actual lap display. Because nice, big numbers would have been too easy on the eyes, especially in the middle of the race.
    Actually, there is a lap display. The little blue and gray rectangles near the bottom are the lap counter. I agree that it wouldn't have hurt to use bigger numbers, though - it's pretty much impossible to read those things during an actual race, unless you're on a straightaway and have time to look down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    The ships are TOO quiet. Dammit, I LIKED that subtle "fizzzzz" in XL. There's almost none of that in 3. There's not even a sound for Hyper-thrust, so I don't even feel like I'm going hyper-fast.
    Fizz? The engines in Wipeout XL hiss like airliners.

    Personally, I have no trouble hearing them. And you can turn up the sound effects if you can't hear them well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    Crappy weapons. Force wall? Reminds me of Wipeout 1 when you'd successfully hit a ship with your rocket, only to create a huge roadblock that you'd have to try REALLY hard to avoid. Reflector? So for 10 seconds or so, I'm supposed to switch from "please oh please don't hit me omg" to "HA HA!! Hit me now! But only RIGHT NOW and for the next few seconds, and NOT with Mines!" More often than not, it seems to be there just so the computer can legitimately stop you from using Energy Drain. And Cloak? Who cares. Just more weapons I have to cycle through in order to get the not-as-satisfying Quake or the now-ugly Rockets...
    Crappy weapons? As in, every weapon from Wipeout XL, minus the Electrical Bolt (which was annoying to be hit with and unsatisfying to use) and Thunder Bomb (which was essentially the same as the Quake, but not as cool), and with some new weapons to add more variety? Sure, the Deflector is nearly useless, but the Cloak is cool and the Energy Wall is super-effective on large groups of enemies (and you can fly right through it, rendering your point false). And what makes the Quake "not-as-satisfying"? The fact that it doesn't blindfold you by staying right in front of your ship and blocking your vision? I always thought of that as an improvement. Also, it destroys mines now, and how can that be bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    No ACTUAL Turbo means Hyper-thrust is required... which means as far as pickups go, the Energy Drain pickup is also the Turbo pickup... which makes Feisar suck.
    FEISAR has sucked since the first game, and the Hyperthrust adds technical depth that the Boost never had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    The voice during the race tells you the weapon YOU got. Were people actually clamoring for this? So now when I'm about to get hit by a weapon, all I get is "WARNING!" It's just not as satisfying when you stop without knowing exactly what hit you. It's as though the computer just says, "HEY, YOU STOP NOW."
    I know exactly what you mean. If you're going to tell me which weapon I got, at least have a different announcer tell me which weapon my opponents are using. In the old games, I'd put my shield up if I heard "Missile" or "Shockwave" and I'd just avoid being directly behind an opponent if I heard "Mines". I can't do that in Wipeout 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    Really bad ping-pong effects. The slow Auto Pilot doesn't help things, either. I never realized how much I missed that THUNK from the original Wipeout.
    The Autopilot has always been slow, and I think that scraping metal is more fitting than soap falling in a bathtub (which is what the old sound always seemed like to me).

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    And finally, UNLOCKING EVERYTHING IS A CHORE. Unlike in Wipeout Pure, I almost dreaded getting golds in Wipeout 3 because that just meant I'd just have to slug through more tracks with ships I really don't like.
    I think that it was actually an improvement over Wipeout XL. That game only requires you to beat two tournaments, which takes less than an hour at most. Wipeout 3, on the other hand, requires you to excel in any possible situation before you can truly say that you've beaten it. It takes weeks to beat, and it eventually becomes second-nature. After you've beaten it, it still has the same stunning replayability as the other games in the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    I'll admit that the game is not all bad. Music is opinion, as always, and while I did like most of it, I can't say that it was racing music. The fact that the music stayed during a pause or restart was nice, and the loading times were nice and quick.
    Really? The soundtrack and loading times are the only things about Wipeout 3 that aren't bad? You've completely ignored:

    1. The ships. Twice as many as in the other pre-Fusion games, but much better-looking (especially the Auricom, which looked hideous in Wipeout XL) and still distinct from each other. Each is suited to a particular playing style, and the Piranha (I refuse to misspell it) is actually useable!

    2. The weapons. I can't believe that you painted them as a con. The pit lane in Wipeout XL was useless for two reasons: it was hard to lose a significant amount of health, and the Energy pickup never failed to bring your energy back in the pit lane's absence. Wipeout 3, on the other hand, fixes this: the Hyperthrust mechanism provides an incentive to have as much health as possible, and the energy pickup is much rarer and actually requires skill to use effectively. Gone are the Thunder Bomb and the Electrical Bolt, and, while I miss the former somewhat (although the Quake essentially made it redundant), I couldn't care less that the latter's gone (it's essentially a Missile with an ugly-looking wireframe effect, and it's frustrating when it hits you). On the other hand, there are plenty of new weapons: the Force Wall is a great idea with a cool effect, the Cloak is awesome when you're playing against a friend, and the Energy Drain adds a lot of depth. The only weapon that doesn't really work is the Deflector - it's too limited to be of any real use as a shield.

    Also, the Plasma actually hits enemies now! Woo!

    3. The track designs. Easily as good as Wipeout XL's, and with more unique scenery for each track, not to mention "special" areas that set each one apart from the rest (the corkscrew in Mega Mall, the 90-degree turns in Manortop).

    4. The prototype courses. Like deleted scenes on the DVD release of a movie, but cooler! It's easy to see why they were cut from the final game - they aren't nearly up to par with the rest of the tracks - but it's neat that they're playable along with the "real" tracks.

    5. The handling. In my opinion, it's the best that the series has to offer. It feels much smoother and more responsive than even Wipeout XL's, while being subtle and nuanced in a way that the other games can't match (certainly not Wipeout 64).

    6. The game modes. It has all of the single races, tournaments, and time trials from the first two games, while adding Wipeout 64's challenge system, combat mode (as Eliminator), and split-screen multiplayer. All that it needs is a Zone mode to be perfect.

    7. Split-screen multiplayer. I know that it's redundant to mention it, but it's really something that the other PlayStation games should have had. The only other pre-Wipeout Fusion game with that feature is Wipeout 64, and it doesn't count because it's on the N64. Seriously, though, it's a crime that the first two games don't have it.

    8. The replay feature. It's cool to go back and relive a race's coolest moments after you've played it, and Wipeout 3 is the only game in the series (to my knowledge) that has this feature.

    9. The graphics. Sorry, but it just has to be said. They're amazing.

    Really, your complaints are almost entirely focused on the (admittedly awful) interface and a few of the sounds. The game's content, playability, and technical depth are what matter, and Wipeout 3 blows the other games away when it comes to those.
    Last edited by Dan Locke; 21st April 2010 at 09:25 PM.

  14. #14

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    passionate stuff dan locke, and while i can't say that it's the best in the series as wipeout and 2097 broke more ground and for that are usually considered the best, 3 is still a top class game and one that brings back many good memories and has a lot of significance for me, and i largely agree with your rebuttals

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    Quote Originally Posted by willsgb13 View Post
    i can't say that it's the best in the series as wipeout and 2097 broke more ground and for that are usually considered the best
    Yeah; I get the idea. For me, though, Wipeout 3 is the best game in the series because it's the most polished iteration of Wipeout XL's formula. Wipeout XL may have redefined the series, but Wipeout 3 perfected the design far beyond anyone's expectations.

    It's sort of like the difference between F-Zero X and F-Zero GX: the former may have given the series its current character, but the latter went back and refined the formula while adding new and better content.

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    If I could still +rep you, I would. I agree with everything you've said. 3 is my favourite game ever

    The only thing I hate in 3 are the invisible boundaries, such as the invisible walls on the sides of the halfpipe-style section of sampa run, but once you know where not to go, those aren't really problems and they're not exactly as if they interfere with any proper racing lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    The only thing I hate in 3 are the invisible boundaries, such as the invisible walls on the sides of the halfpipe-style section of sampa run, but once you know where not to go, those aren't really problems and they're not exactly as if they interfere with any proper racing lines.
    They were also in the first two games, so what difference does it make?

    Actually, my biggest complaint regarding Wipeout 3 also applies to the other games in the series: the opponents are very badly-implemented. Enemy positions are obviously rigged to keep opponents spaced at certain intervals, which makes the races feel less like actual races and more like time trials with traffic. They barely put up a fight, even when compared to Wipeout XL - it's possible to get to first place by the second lap, especially with the Icaras. Also, there are eight different teams, so why do the races only feature four of them at a time? The first game added to its pseudo-realistic atmosphere by making all of the opponents different; Wipeout XL's repetition of the same five ships was understandable, given their limited number, but Wipeout 3 has no excuse for making me race against two identical Auricoms, three identical Piranhas, three identical Qirexes, and three identical FEISARs, let alone expecting me to believe that a pilot would blow up another pilot from the same team, racing in the same ship, with a guided missile. Even in tournaments, half of the teams aren't even present for any given race. How in Burcombe's name does that make any sense?!

    Thankfully, the newer games are much, much fairer in this respect, and actually bother to diversify the opponents (along with adding a much-needed difficulty option), but they don't play nearly as well as the older ones do.
    Last edited by Dan Locke; 23rd April 2010 at 07:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post

    With all this talk about PS1 games on PSP, I decided to hunt around for Wipeout 3.
    [*]Then if you manage to get a race started without wanting to kill yourself, you realize that most of the tracks are also extremely ugly with their dark, drab colors. And maybe it's just my monitor, but all that darkness made the game literally unplayable as early as... well, Porto Kora (moreso, anyway).
    How is this much different from a more gritty Bladerunner style? Where things have some gloom and everything is not all lit up and shiny like the newer tracks? I prefer the older style, some of the pure tracks were more simplistic than omega.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    [*]No actual lap display. Because nice, big numbers would have been too easy on the eyes, especially in the middle of the race.
    I mean, you were playing it on a PSP. It was meant for a full screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    [*]And finally, UNLOCKING EVERYTHING IS A CHORE. Unlike in Wipeout Pure, I almost dreaded getting golds in Wipeout 3 because that just meant I'd just have to slug through more tracks with ships I really don't like.
    Well it's good that you hadn't tried Fusion then yet. But looking back, I'm glad I mastered both games just for the love of the Wipeout series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Lei View Post
    (Still... I hate this game and everyone who enjoys it more than XL or Pure!)
    I never got XL when it came out, although I would've loved it at the time. Wipeout 3 would make a stronger impression when it's the new "in" thing that just came out; and if it doesn't impress then, it can sometimes take time to warm up to something different. I definitely LOVED Wipeout 3, it's the title that spurred my whole fascination with the series. That includes its "simplicity". Again, not everyone gets it. It's like a sexy girl that dresses modestly as opposed to dressing like a raver all the time. I like both and appreciate each style. But the simplicity that you didn't like reflected the environment of the times with less tech and LED lights everywhere.

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