Barrel Rolls in HD

[Connavar]

KIGO: there are already other racing games doing just that, just take
a Gran Turismo for instance. And if you like pure speed, why not doing some
Zones? (or play online with BR disabled).

Without Barrel Rolls, Wipeout would be very boring, especially in Speed Lap /
Time Trials (because during races there are also weapons).
It's simple, I wouldn't play the game without BR; sometimes someone disables
them in online races and I feel that the game is missing something!

Also finding and executing those BRs is very rewarding (you feel good + you
get a better time!)

[guillaume]

at least, an option asking the player if he wants to have his internal view twisting or not when rolling would solve this right?

That would feel a bit weird, wouldn't it?
I indeed feel that it's too bad that there's a difficulty difference between internal and external view.
Doing a BR in internal view basically makes you lose control for a quick instant. So at the same time it's rewarding to pull one off and not lose your line at a time or location in the track where it's not easy to do so. Makes sense?

[KIGO1987]

Excuting BRs online are real cunty, half the bastards dont work at all.

I was looking at one of Asa internal view races on 2097, it had such good flow, and that to me is Wipeout, and that is what wipeout is all about.

Turning BRs off on a track that is already know where there are jumps and **** every where, where in you mind you must BR there. Thats why i love Moa, a track where its not dominated by ****ing BRs.

[silverfoxy]

I had a go on the campaign the other day so I could unlock silver skins and just to see how I measured up to before. I found doing BRs to be very hit and miss, and if anything, worse than online. Not being able to do them regularly on the big drop in Chenghou is just daft. Also a lot of the time it would just make the noise and take 15 points off my energy.

The most fun I've had online (except for the English qualification heats) was the Pressure organised races without BRs. When you know they're off, it levels the playing field up a bit and makes you concentrate on lines a lot more. Plus IMO its more exciting when 7 or 8 players are all tightly bunched which, in my experience, doesn't happen that often when they're on.

I appreciate that in TTs and SLs BRs are vital and people are really pushing the boundaries of them. Its not for me for a few reasons - I can't do them often enough , it hurts my thumb too much to do it :- and I can't get the old BSB trick.

I would like to see more events online where the BRs are turned off.

[Spece2goin]

well BR failure is another thing...
i noticed that nothing happen before your ship reach the ground, then you got your -15 shield and no boost, no matter how you shake your joystick!

but i really think BRs bring a strategy, especially on multiplayer races, because you have to choose wheter doing a BR or save your shield. Some BRs are hard to do in such circumstances, even if made easily on TT/SL, other racers, and shield managment make them very rewarding.
Also on Moa, or Sol2 at lower classes it's cool to make a successfull BR.

you can avoid someone doing his BR by firing at him just before the jump, that's a bit annoying when it happens to you, but that's why the game is funny too!

[lunar]

I was looking at one of Asa internal view races on 2097, it had such good flow, and that to me is Wipeout, and that is what wipeout is all about.

Really good point! Can you imagine a BR in one of Asa`s 2097 runs? Or in Wipeout 3 at all? The idea is crazy and absurd and that`s why BR`s don`t belong in Wipeout to me, if it is to have anything of its original qualities.

Okay maybe I`m too much of an old traditionalist. They can add speed, skill and strategy to the "modern" game as shown in videos, record tables and when you have to manage your shield energy online. However, imo, they add another S, which is spam. So they should at least be cut back on.

As said above, when you race with "weapons off" in an online race, so have to be limited in your BRs, the racing is very tight and exciting and the BR use is strategic. Something like this, but with weapons on, could be a good compromise to allow the BR lovers their hunt for the most efficient BRs (and also be more like Wipeout Pure, where SL got BR`s most right ).

[leungbok]

KIGO: there are already other racing games doing just that, just take
a Gran Turismo for instance. And if you like pure speed, why not doing some
Zones? (or play online with BR disabled).

Without Barrel Rolls, Wipeout would be very boring, especially in Speed Lap /
Time Trials (because during races there are also weapons).
It's simple, I wouldn't play the game without BR; sometimes someone disables
them in online races and I feel that the game is missing something!

Also finding and executing those BRs is very rewarding (you feel good + you
get a better time!)

Exactly what i think !

[chboing]

Excuting BRs online are real cunty, half the bastards dont work at all.
[...]
Thats why i love Moa, a track where its not dominated by ****ing BRs.

BR online are working fine here, maybe, just maybe a little bit harder to launch than offline, but still possible.

+ i love moa therma too, but the forward track is dominated but ****ing barrel rolls too, the reverse one is way better on this point, the only BR (forget the one at the start...) that's possible, is really not easy to do in online race, and too risky imho

moa therma is great both way though ! love it

[sh1kamaru-]

>Not being able to do them regularly on the big drop in Chenghou is just daft.

I don't understand why it fails for you I've always managed to do it (I play with analog, not d-pad cause I don't like the DS3 d-pad) but I admit other BRs can fail more often than they should. Anyway this made me love the game just because of the strategy it brings to the game in races.

To Br or not to Br, that is the question ^^

[stinkleroy]

I started off not liking BR's as, well I love 2097 and love to hunt for good racing lines. But then I got used to them and started to enjoy using them a lot more. Now that the game is broken and attempting a Barrel roll usually strips my shield and puts me off my racing line due to furious amounts of L-R-L action with no eventual outcome...I'm back to disliking them again.

And yes, the big drop off Chengou fwd is a prime example, as is the hill on Ubermall fwd...should be so easy to BR there, but it just isn't anymore. No amount of LRL can help when the game just refuses to co-operate. So you guys who can consistently BR without issue should count yourselves very lucky indeed

[yeldar2097]

mine tend to work in most places if i actively pitch up/down beforehand. as in, if i don't then they won't work...
this works everywhere except seb rev (unfortunate since it's one of my faves) - can only get 1-2 BRs/lap there

[Axel]

Wow the community is divided. TBH this is beating a dead horse, but I really can't stand BR as it doesn't flow with the game TBH. I hope in the next Wipeout they bring back the booster system from WO3. That to me is just perfect. I may have liked the BR system if the PS3 stick wasn't so tall and cumbersome.

I'm very glad that they gave us the option to disable the damn thing in multiplayer though.

[silverfoxy]

Yeldar - I can get them to work the majority of the time but when you can't BR on Chenghou forward off the big hill online and offline then IMO there is a problem with the game.

All I will say is I never had any issues before any of the online updates and daft ranking system.

As Axel said we are flogging a dead horse here, lets hope they fix them before Fury.

I use the Dpad, can't race properly with the stick. This shouldn't make any difference at all though.

[LordVonPS3]

I voted for NO barrel rolls & I'm one of the 1300 or so who has "beaten Zico". Now that I've finally got that trophy I'm all for keeping WOHD and Fury as they are, because that keeps the award distinctive and exclusive. Good luck to everyone else!

I have to say though, I think it would have been better if the game never had barrel rolls. I'd much rather focus on racing line & hitting the boost pads.

Maybe Studio Liverpool's next WOHD expansion pack could reintegrate HD versions of the original WipEout & 2097 craft (which aren't capable of doing barrel rolls). HD versions of the original WipEout tracks would also be most welcome...

[lunar]

Great idea about the ships. Imagine that - a version of the 2097 Piranha in Wipeout HD. No barrel rolls but insane velocity. I think a few people would hate it passionately, but others would be very excited about that idea.

[jimsin]

Just thought I'd add my opinion here.

I didn't like barrel rolls to start with because they only seemed to work about 80% of the time - I even went and bought a new Dualshock controller because I thought my Sixaxis ones were faulty (not that I regret it, because I wouldn't go back to the Sixaxis now).

Anyway - this all changed when Fury came out - either I suddenly became better at barrel rolls, or they improved the way they work - because now I get a 100% success rate (unless it's a very short airtime and there's not time to complete it) - so now I enjoy them ... I think that they add a lot of skill, risk and strategy to the game which would be missing otherwise.

[Lightlord]

I belive they should be included and also better incorporated into some of the barrel roll-less tracks like moa therma reverse, don't know many if anyone who bothers with the br at the start because of the awkard angles it leaves people at or the tracks where you NEED a turbo to be able to manage a barrel roll. I'm not saying that every track should have something stupid like 10 br per track but I do think that tracks which have very few could have a couple more in better places with the odd one here and there not needing a turbo to accomplish it.

[LordVonPS3]

Great idea about the ships. Imagine that - a version of the 2097 Piranha in Wipeout HD. No barrel rolls but insane velocity. I think a few people would hate it passionately, but others would be very excited about that idea.

Precisely. Piranha 2097.
Extreme speed... No barrel rolls.

I won't say that Wipeout HD is slow (especially as Zone mode keeps getting faster), but this footage of a 2097 Piranha on Phantom should help to revive a memory or two.

I'd ideally like to see at least one more pack added to Wipeout HD, featuring...
* 2097 tracks.
* 2097 craft (no barrel rolls) with similar handling.
* "Challenge I". Navigate 3 laps of each of the 2097 tracks at 'Phantom' or 'Zen' speed. Complete Challenge I to unlock Challenge II.
* "Challenge II". As per "Challenge I" but running at 'Zen' or 'Supersonic' speed.
* All the music from 2097 / XL.

Any following pack from that could use the exact same craft and challenge modes, but run over the original WipE'out" tracks.

Ah... Yes. Wishful thinking!

[graeble]

YES!
and in cockpit view.

[DividedXZero]

You mean i'd get my 2097 Qirex back!


(Ugh...dont tease me like that...)