View Poll Results: Should Barrel Rolls be included in WipEout HD?

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  • Yes

    112 57.14%
  • No

    84 42.86%
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Thread: Barrel Rolls in HD

  1. #1
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    Default Barrel Rolls in HD

    Should there be Barrel Rolls in HD?

    If you vote "Yes", please say what changes you think there should be to the way it works, if any, or whether you think it`s just perfect as it is.

    If you vote "No", propose your ideas for a new boost system, or just vote "No" and leave it to the professionals at SL.

  2. #2
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    I gotta vote yes, because it`s already made history from the past Wipeouts.

    But, I want less Barrel Rolls much as possible or even harder to use it, the like as a original Wipeout game to make it more interesting.
    Like, I don`t want 6 brs per track, all I want is, let`s say 2 out of 5 possible chances per track.
    Other tracks with NO barrel rolls at all.

    Got to be 50/50, say ten tracks, 5 tracks with possible brs chances and other 5 track with no brs.

    I`m thinking too much!

    stevie

  3. #3
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    Yes, what the hell else am I going to do when the ship goes off a jump? It would feel empty without them. I also believe it takes a degree of skill to pull off a BR and you get the little boost for your efforts. Simply pressing a button and getting instant boost is cheap.

  4. #4
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    Hell no! If they make the game fast enough and hard enough then there is absolutely no need for any boost system.

    PHP Code:
    Simply pressing a button and getting instant boost is cheap
    So is pressing two buttons to get instant boost, lol. No difference whatsoever in my mind!

    If they have to be there, and I'm sure they'll leave it there simply because they were in Pure and Pulse - I have to agree with stin that there should be some tracks completely without, and the overall number of BRs cut down considerably.

    I think BRs totally dilute the formula of Wipeout. There can't be any soaring jumps or even little jumps because there will be a barrel roll or four off of that one jump. In come the mag-strips to prevent this and you're locked to the track, which means you might as well have just left the track straight and flat in the first place.

  5. #5
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    I am afraid decision to include BRs is already taken by SL for HD and from what we saw at SL end of 2007 there's probably no chance to see Brs be changed : not sure they want to refine the system before its launching date.
    But for next wipeouts in future that could be good to let them evoluate or completely stop that system and changing by a new one.

    My suggestion (to avoid BRs) will be to add a 3rd possibilitie to the current swallow/fire weapons it could be a turbo bar which is increasing by racing perfectly ( no wall hits for instance) and can be used in some particular places by pressing L1 or R1 ( L2 R2 = airbrakes) giving you a turboboost while you press the button or till you release it.

  6. #6
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    Reading everyone's comments made me confused

    I like Asayyeah's ideia. But in my opinion they could bring Hyperthrust back

    Btw i voted yes. But Medusa made an important point so it made me confused.

  7. #7
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    Yes if they work all the time, or NO if they speed the game up enough. I'm not sure what my opinion is

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    So is pressing two buttons to get instant boost, lol. No difference whatsoever in my mind
    Its actually 3 buttons and a short boost, as opposed to the hyperthrust whose supporters will be along shortly I'm sure, which is essentially a huge massive boost for doing nothing.

  9. #9
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    No, it's 2 buttons - one gets pressed twice

    I don't want it to seem like I'm in favour of restoring pits and hyperthrust - just want to make it painfully obvious that barrel rolls are a cheap game mechanic which ruins the flow of what could be a beautifully fast game.

    I would argue it takes just as much skill to hold down 2 buttons at once on the right side of the PSP (thrust and hyperthrust if it existed) as it does to rub your thumb back and forth on the d-pad.

    I apologize to anyone who's offended by what I think BRs are, but really it seems like they were just chucked in there to give people more to do on slow speeds, and now we're stuck with them. (Permission to hate me.)
    Last edited by Medusa; 5th February 2008 at 03:07 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    ..as it does to rub your thumb back and forth on the d-pad.
    or... over time... break your analogue nub.

  11. #11
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    Maybe going back to no boost system other than the pickup would be the neutral solution?

  12. #12
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    I voted No. I`d like to see just some really simple system like getting one "free" turbo per lap in races as well as TTs, in addition to weapon pick ups. Hopefully there are enough buttons on a PS3 controller to do this, and have it on a seperate button. The way it would effect multiplayer would have to be thought about, maybe not such a hot idea, but something simple like that would be great.

    If we have to have them, I agree with Stevie. Maybe there could just be zones where BR`s can work, and an indicator comes on the screen to tell you the system is active. So they work as big crowd-pleasing stunts off the big jumps like at the Amphiseum, but there`s no annoying having to BR over every little lump in the track, or even more annoying BR-chaining which destroys the flow of the track.

  13. #13
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    Having BR only sections to cure the issues created by Barrel Rolls is like a doctor prescribing pee-stain coloured trousers because you have a weak bladder.

    As in; it's treating a symptom of the problem, not tackling the problem itself.

  14. #14
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    As I'm no real fan of barrel rolls, I'd like to see them thrown out of future wipeout games completely. But as Arnaud already mentioned they surely will be included in HD. I just hope that SL will reduce the possibilities to pull one off to a minimum because there's simply way to much possible barrel rolls in pulse and pure and the ability to link them (like on metropia black) makes things even worse I think.
    To bring back the hyperthrust like in W3O doesn't seem to be a realistic option to me because this would never work with the absorb function. To reintroduce hyperthrust and pitlanes just to get rid of the barrel roll function would be a huge step back in the series' development. Hell, this kind of regression would make me feel as if I'd pulled out all my lightbulbs in my flat and replace them with candles...

    I think the barrel roll system would work really well in HD or any future wipeout games if SL added some feature to forbid linking barrel rolls (meaning to use the air time and speed you get out of the first BR to immediately do another one) and if SL made sure that "ninja-style-BR" (like you can do on the edges of the free track areas at tech de ra for example) are not possible anymore. This could be achieved by expanding the mag-strip function imo. Just make the ship stick to the ground for a fraction of a second when it hits the ground right after a barrel roll, as if it would land on a tiny bit of mag-strip. The bad thing about this solution is that you'd presumably have to sacrifice a little bit of the games' floatiness and if not implemented properly we might get a game like wipeout fusion 2, which surlely nobody would like to see.

  15. #15
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    Totally agree with Infoxicated. Having to mess about with track layout and add mag-strip sections to reduce the barrel rolls is nuts.

    Just pull 'em.

    Leave the pick-up boost and leave it at that, I say.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
    But as Arnaud already mentioned they surely will be included in HD. I just hope that SL will reduce the possibilities to pull one off to a minimum because there's simply way to much possible barrel rolls in pulse and pure
    But HD is Pure and Pulse tracks? How can they make it any less without going to great lengths? Maybe we can work out how many could potentially be in the game, based on the videos and screen shots we've seen we know most of the tracks so.

    Phantom Class.

    Venita K: Possible: 3 Difficulty Rating: hard to do any of them though the first one is easier, 2 done off the little drops in the tunnels and another can be done if Turbo boost is used correctly as you come out of the last tunnel

    Chenghau: Possbile: 3 Difficulty Rating: 2 are easy as pie, the one off the last drop before the tunnel which could rival the amphiseum whites drop for easier BR spot one could proove tricky at the little drops after the really sharp bend (you know the one I'm talking about lol) possibly to do one off each drop?

    Sol 2: Possible: 0 for most people me included 1 for smart arses that try to fly along and then off the track walls, this rarely works from what I've seen.

    Moa Therma: Possible: 0?? Maybe one on that tricky last corner?

    Anulpha Pass: Possible: 2, one of the shortcut ledge which is easy and another harder turbo boost assisted one just before the track gets really narrow.

    Sebenco Climb: Possible: 5!!, one after the first corner, off the little hump in the track, second is only possible if you get a turbo from the first weapons pad and boost along the little straight section before that bend that lets you see those windmill things, 3rd can be done on the long straight that leads into the tunnel if you get enough height on the corner leading into the straight. A fourth as you exit the tunnel into the chicanes and a possible fifth on the last little drop before the line, that one is hard.

    I need help to finish this analysis cant remember the rest of the tracks.

    There a shot of a track with a load of chevrons and magstrip possibly vertica? How many here 1 maybe. I also saw a shot of a track that could have been Blue Ridge but I really cannot tell.

  17. #17
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    RR, I was talking about what I hope or would like to see in HD (or any other future wipeout). I don't know if SL would have to go to great lengths to implement a solution like I suggested or if a solution like this is implementable at all. I'm just trying to add some constructive criticism and talk about maybe possible solutions not only bashing on an already existing feature of the game...

    This discussion recalls a comment from infoxicated to my mind which makes me laugh for hours every time I read it:

    click me and read the last paragraph of the post

    Sorry Rob, your post just screamed at me to be dragged out of the shadows again...
    Last edited by Tomahawk; 5th February 2008 at 04:47 PM.

  18. #18
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    The problem with BRs is that they do not work everytime. Why do you put a mechanism into a game that isn't fully supported? It's like having pitlanes that could recharge your energy, but just if you've enough luck. Or airbrakes that may work randomly. It simply makes no sense.

    But that may be fixed with the power the PS3 gives us.
    But anyway: BRs destroy the flow of the game, at least for me. I can only repeat myself: I want back a more traditional handling (even though it requires complete recoding - hey, it's a new game and new games should have new elements included; we don't want to end like NFSU and its successors, do we?). Cause it's bassically the handling that gives us the possibilities to do BRs almost everywhere. With Pure's/Pulse's handling the ships's nose pulls up almost after every small jump - this way there's enough air between the craft and the track and enough time for a BR. And as you can see people can use almost every bumb for BRs now. Just look how ships react after a jump: they fall down like a stone and the nose pulls dramatically up.
    If I remember correctly pitch control was supposed to be used after jumps in the old WipEouts: to gain height and stay longer in midair - now it's just used to decrease the slow-down effect you get from pulled-up noses.

    Another reason why I don't like BRs is the fact that new track layouts (and also the technologies of PSP and PS3) include more static objects that can be used as ramps. I like static objects, because they are more realistic compared to the PS1-WipEouts where you could easily fly through walls. But the static objects combined with the handling make the race to a search of new little ramps or bumbs that may result a BR.

    I gave a clear "no" for BRs.

  19. #19
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    I prefer absorbing weapons to restore energy over the old pitlane system. Asayyeah's suggestion would make it necessary to put pitlanes back in. it reads to me like a new way of doing hyperthrust
    and personally I never liked hyperthrust.

    I voted yes, as I like barrel rolls. The timing aspect of them as well as the necessity of finding suitable locations to use them (every opportunity is not always the best idea) both makes them useful and requires enough skill to make it satisfying when I pull it off (rather than slamming my side into the track). The risk/reward balance makes it work for me.
    The ONLY time when BRs annoy me is when I have enough energy and I do all the dpad movements correctly and it still doesn't roll.

  20. #20
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    Rob makes a good point - and thank you for the giggles.

    i think the BR is a good system that should be kept. the only reason it didn't work as planned on Pure (and sometimes on Pulse) was the framerate dropping, which is due to a hardware limitation (IIRC).

    Do you really think the PS3 isnt going to have the resources to make this happen when you want it to happen? Im an xbox fan myself but im not going to deny that the PS3 is a SERIOUS bit of kit.

    keep BRs - just make damn sure they work when you want them.

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