Detail vs. Framerate

[Roadster]

First of all, let me just start off by saying that Wipeout Pulse is an extremely beautiful game (as is Pure), with graphics easily amongst the best on the PSP from both a technical and artistic perspective.

However, I have to question the wisdom of putting so much graphical detail into a game that's pretty much about racing at incredibly high speeds. Especially when it affects the frame-rate so much. Not so bad on time trials, zone etc. but very noticeable on 8-ship races, especially at the higher speed classes. It's certainly an improvement over Pure, but still not ideal.

Personally, I'd rather have less detail, and a smoother, more consistent frame-rate - a bit like what F-Zero X did back on the N64, but obviously not as extreme. What do others think?

[lunar]

I agree with you, really. I think the framerate on Pulse is worse than Pure on some tracks when racing AI ships. I never really noticed framerate drops in Pure at all, except on multiplayer, and they never bothered me offline. In single player, Pulse framerate is quite disturbingly low, for me, at some moments and on some tracks.

[Ash-Omen]

i think the framerates fine its a very detailed game and ive noticed the framerate does drop allittle on 8 player phantom races but not by a large amount its still perfectly playable, lol it wouldent make much difference anyway cos 8 player phantom is alittle too hard too know wat the hells goin on anyway

[GTAce]

Hmmm i dont have a PSP so i cant say how much the gameplay suffers from the FPS drops but i think on a Handheld console like the PSP you can get over it.
See, Sony must also show what the PSP can do and i think Pulse does this very well.
If you want a really flawless and fluid experience you should stay on the home consoles and wait for WipEout HD (1080p @60 frames iirc).
You cant expect that from a Handheld imo.

[Frances_Penfold]

Interesting post

I agree that framerate, in general, is almost always more important than graphical detail.

On the other hand, the game modes in Wipeout Pure and Pulse that I cherish most-- namely, time trials and speed lap and free play-- hold up really well in the frame-rate department. So on balance I'm willing to give up some frames-per-second in multiplayer to maintain the beautiful and stunning track detail that I appreciate in single player time trialing.

Wipeout seems to have a long tradition of creating cool tracks with interesting backgrounds-- it has always differed from F-zero in this regard. Egg has made some interesting posts over the last year or two about tricks Studio Liverpool has to maintain the framerate while keeping as much detail as possible. (Things like inclusion of tunnel sections, that keep the game from having to show so much graphical detail at some points, and clouds as well.)

As an aside-- do folks think that the less detailed and "cel-shaded" look of tracks in Zone mode something that was implemented to maintain the framerate even when the game is racing at insane speeds?

[Dogg Thang]

Pulse isn't flawless by any means but the frame rate seems pretty good to me. I was certainly impressed when I first loaded it up and going back to Pure reveals just how much better it is. Yes, things get choppier when it gets very busy but Pulse is one of the smoother PSP games to me.

In fact the only one I can think of that is silky smooth on the PSP is Ridge Racer, which is lovely.

Yeah, if it were up to me, I'd put smoothness over detail but I think Pulse runs much better and that counts for a lot.

[ZenDJiNN]

I'm with you there Frances..... i often use freeplay just to wander about the tracks, looking at the buildings & the scenery..... even imagining what that it's a place i could quite easily visit and maybe get a place to live. I'd LOVE to go for a walk around Moa or Platinum for instance, but as the closest i can get (at the moment) is drifting slowly around in a ship, i'll take that...... detail means a lot to me personally, and i think SL have "Nailed it" given the limits of a machine that's quite old now spec wise....

Still love Pure as well though, and often do the same there. In fact, i have a nice little condo to rent in Iridia if anyone's interested!

[phl0w]

I'd choose framerate over detail any day of the week. I can't play Forza or PGR to the day because they stutter so much. Now there are people out there that think there's no noticeable difference between 30 or 60fps, and maybe to some people there isn't. I, on the other hand, can't stand it and get headaches from playing @30fps over a longer period of time. First thing I noticed was the bad framerate of Pulse especially in Eliminator and when a Ghost is loaded. I think of it like this: You can get used to slightly less detailed tracks and ships, but a dropping framerate is something that you can't get used to because it's so random, and effectively alters gameplay because physics, thus your ships handling is dependent of framerate. I think that from all WOs 3 has the best graphics. Despite its obvious lower polygon count and less sophisticated tech than Pure/ Pulse it looks the most realistic and runs smoothest too.

[CR4SH3D]

thats a good point, 3 does almost look as good and runs flawlessly on less powerful hardware, however i thought the human eye can only pick up 25fps? which is why films are recorded at that isnt it?

[Dogg Thang]

No, the human eye can definitely tell the difference at higher frame rates. You only have to compare something running at a steady 60fps to something at 30fps to see it.

[lunar]

I think 24 fps is the minimum number of frames per second needed to create the illusion of movement. You can still sense a greater smoothness with a higher framerate though.

I once read on here that the main reason the original Wipeout was a racer with walled in tracks, in the first place, was to avoid problems with draw-in, framerate etc. God knows where that was posted though. I`m not one of these people whose eyes start bleeding the moment the action drops below 60fps, I spent almost a year playing the original Wipeout so I can put up with most things, but it did seem to me on Outpost 7 and Talons Junction that the framerate was less than 24fps at times, and this was worse than Pure ever got, but everyone seems more or less happy, so maybe it was just my brain that was malfunctioning.

[lochiebrad]

if it's a steady 30fps and NEVER drops i'd prefer that to a 60fps that often drops to 50 or lower, because it's the change in frame rate that puts you off. Low and steady wins the race, but I'd say 24 is the minimum.

[Medusa]

I'll take the detail over framerate in this game because the detail makes it look more realistic, which it seemed like Pure was missing (to me anyways). Lots of people will stick with the slower classes anyways and the game can handle the detail at those speeds just fine.

[phl0w]

the game can handle the detail at those speeds just fine.

Yet a steady framerate is much more crucial on Phantom...

, so maybe it was just my brain that was malfunctioning.

No, it's the game (or the PSP, your choice who's to blame ), your brain works just fine ^^
Outpost7, Talon's and Moa have got some serious problems in SR and online, be it heavy drops in framerate or ugly screen tearing on the latter track.

[Ash-Omen]

I think the games a technical achievement most detailed game on psp and its got some really nice lighting effects, frame rate for me has never been a problem, maybe ur psp's r dieing lol. anyway if u compare this too pure u can really see the difference 333mhz can make.

[bloseth]

Just play 'Ridge Racer' for a few sec and go back to WO. You'll see the difference for sure. I think RR runs at about 60fps.

[Ash-Omen]

lol yeah but look at the difference in detail, thats like comparing Pulse too LocoRoco

[bloseth]

I know, just an example to show difference in framerate

... and to clear any misunderstandings: I prefer WO over RR _any_ day...

[phl0w]

the difference 333mhz can make

Again, the game does NOT run @333Mhz, Colin Berry and Egg stated this quite a few times now. If yours, however, is running at a higher CPU clock due to CFW used I can understand why you wouldn't notice the framerate, because it's super smooth @333.
I won't jump to conclusions, neither is it my intention to accuse anyone, but: If you read about the game on the net in general or on other boards there's no talk about the framerate, although it's usually a major factor when talking about new racing games. I am under the impression that for many (present company excepted) the framerate problem is a non existant one, because they thought Pulse was a game utilizing the PSP's full power, thus switched their CPUs to 333. Is that possible or am I completely paranoid?

[Dogg Thang]

But would it be a bad thing if WO ran as smooth as RR but had to sacrifice the detail? For me, no. RR, in spite of its lack of detail, has some lovely looking sections mostly due to clever use of the layout to maximise showing off the good bits and great lighting. And the frame rate is sweet.