Weapons and Tracks

[Mobius]

Hey!

I'm a n00b to the forums and i thought i would start a topic coz of that.

(and coz im nosey too)

what kind of stuff do yuo lot think there should be in WOpure?
eg weapons and features on the tracks?

i would like to see a weapon similar to the flak cannon unreal tournament
and rollercoaster-ish tracks too like in fusion

(i say "ish" as some people would throw up on thier new psp's and that wouldn't be nice )

What you think?

[Lance]

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hi Mobius, welcome to the forums.

i'd like tracks more like Wipeout 3, narrower and no open trackless zones. but i would like to see 2 or 3 of the circuits be a little weirder and wilder than the average track of the basic 8 on WO3, perhaps like the third prototype track of that game, or with Spilskinanke drop-offs, or some crazy alien other-planet scenery, preferably on another planet.
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[Set]

Yes, welcome to the chaos that is the forums.

I definitely like the narrow feature of the tracks in WO3 (and XL, for that matter), but the trackless sections can be cool, too...take Temptesh Bay, course 3 for example, the desert/rock area before the final rollercoaster-type part...it may be very open, but it's incredibly hard to maneuver throughout, offering quite the challenge.
As for different planets, I hope they do so; just not Mars, because it's been done. :wink:
Venus would make for a cool environment, with all the yellow sulfur clouds and such.
I really would love to see the WO3 hyperthrust feature brought back...it was one of the best elements of the game, in my opinion.

[G'Kyl]

And a warm welcome from me as well, Mobius.

What I'd like to see in WP? Now, since I haven't ever played Fusion, I can't say anything about narrow or wider tracks :), but I believe I do want courses of the kind 1, 2, 3(SE) and 64 had. I'd also like them to be a bit more interesting and challenging than the average futuristic racing game offers. I always felt that Wipeout 1 tracks had more of that being-something-different quality than the ones from its successors, in relation to the time the game was released of course. Nevertheless, the new hardware should allow for some twisted, narrow, rolling courses that should make things more...alien (read : interesting). And since it's on a related matter, I would also love to be WP to not be streamed for the mass market but more for the dedicated Wiper. Oh, and while they're at it, they should give us weapons that are not only mentioned to be coming from the future but also look like they do. I'm talking about the difference in (graphical) weapon design between WO3 and XL here. I don't want XL back, not at all. But I want Wipeout Pure to not be another racing game, but one that is tailored to those who strive for high speed, battle and, as if they had nothing else to do, perfecting their flying skills while they are on the way. ;)

Ben

[Rapier Racer]

I'd like to see tracks like those from Wo 3 and Fusion because Katmoda 12 3 was pretty narrow and had those flip pads and that long straight bit for ultimate speed!

I also want super weapons, but doubt very much that there will be any, and the hyperthrust from WO 3,

[Mobius]

True,
i was only 9 when wip3out came out so the hyperthrust feature was too confusing, but good fun for overtaking you mates AFTER draining their sheild (heh heh).

What would be a good idea is if they have a big bowl or sphere in space and have a all-out elimintation, eg have 20 competitors having an mini neuclear war, a bit like on wipeout fusion (except not when ur racing as it dont half give u a headache.)

i could put a funny comment to go with it here but i cant think of any at the moment.
oh well. :wink:

[mob/gon]

[Sausehuhn]

Yes, superweapons! I love them... I would like to see more different tracks. A mix between the WipEout 1 - 3 ones and the tracks of Fusion. I really like the wider paths of Fusion, they're making the tracks more interesting.
I like it how the crafts are flying in the old games, but fusion still has the best design and also the best tracks I think...
I even would like to see track at different places, like the Earth (of course!) and the Moon or the Mars! ...or maybe other planets.
I also would like to have one track, which is on more than just one place! e.g: At first you're flying along a ice-track... you're flying and flying and at the end of a path there is a thing that looks like a "stargate"... you're flying through it and at the next moment, you're flying along a track that is in the desert! THAT would be cool!!!

[Rapier Racer]

Indeed it would be, I also forgot to say that a detailed track creator feature would be good, you could choose the location and the track scenery, also I would like to see the track take damage after a missile impacts the side of it, I've always had visions of the Seismic Field ripping a big hole in the side of track and going straight through

[Mobius]

Thats already in fusion (but it was a bit crap)

one idea i cam up wiv (while i was dreaming, mind ) was that there shoule be one HUGEtrack which you can race in sections, each with a different theme eg, one section could be ful of jumps, another with tight turna and so on.

and i you wanted to, race the whole thing all in one go and it coul take half an hr or something. it wouldnt need too much scenery as the poor umd would need to be dvd size to do that.

and if they make the tracks with locations round the world SET ON IN THE UK! i mean thats the home of wipeout isnt it?

theres a track creator on g-surfers (which is the only good part of the game)

just going off subject, anyone like this img?



[/img]

[Sausehuhn]

@ Mobius:

lookin' good, just the quality of the Quake-Picture could be a little bit higher...

@ Ricardo Van-Uber

Yes, that would be great!!! And if there would be a track in a city, the buildings would be saved with big energy-shields... and you just see the shields, when a weapon is exploding on them. *just dreaming...*

[Rapier Racer]

Thats already in fusion (but it was a bit crap)

what was? I didn't see any damage to the tracks take place!

[Mobius]

On wipeout fusion there were parts on the cubiss float tracks which if you shot cirtain weapons at it like rockets or the proton cannon, it would be obliterated, opening up a new route, the only problem was the ai didnt know about it and they werent ver easy to see.

there was only 2 parts like that in the whole game and they werent vital to secure victory.

[Asayyeah]

If they want to sell lots of copies of WP, the game should be accessible to a large majority of people and progressively increase the difficulties for those who are Die Hard gamers and of course for those who own their previous copies of Wipeout.
So they could add like driving license ( e.g. Gran Turismo ) to let people discover that game ( for those who haven't purchased a wipeout game before) : how to turn or how to use weapons or doing a perfect lap ...etc... it could be a different approach for challenges..

[Dimension]

My favourite tracks were the ones from the original Wipeout, the whole style they were set in was what did it for me i think, I would go for more tracks like Manor Top or Terminal from Wip3out too. Weapons I can't really comment on that much as I have no idea what they were like in fusion but more of the same from Wip3out would suit me fine, maybe a slightly more powerful version of the straight firing missiles would be good as their shield energy damage seems pretty naff compared to even mines. but hey, i shall wait and see what Sony do with this one, here's to hoping it's good

[Sausehuhn]

has anybody else noticed the quake in the trailer?

...just asking...

[Gonaka]

my opinions are probably a little contradicting (lol) but id like the style of wip3out withthe grunginess of 2097, the track variety of w3:se and no pilot crap or super weapons like Fusion.

Oh, and a jukebox mode is essential.
Oh, and no ship upgrading (dunno bout anyone else,but i didnt like that)

[Prometheus]

a weapon when fired at a target in sight, you would see it stall shake for a moment, and it's engine would fall out.... but it would still be flying under momentum for a few metres before hitting the ground and smashing to pieces and coming to a grinding halt (kinda like what happend to sebulba in pod race of Star Wars episode 1)

or better.. just start to see bits and pieces fly off and smoke entrails... could be the result of an attack from a UT flak cannon like weapon..
there was one more weapon but its borrowed from another game. the original Extreme G on the N64. it was a warp weapon. it came in two parts. you deploy its exit portal like a mine and then at some point down the track, you deploy its entrance... those that entered it would be warped back to where you first deployed the exit... and if that just so happens to be where a jump in the track is....well... c'est la vie

[Shem]

just a few things....
WEAPONS : certainly NO weapons like flamer, gravstinger (you know, the one which disables all the AG in a craft so it falls onto the track), grav bomb (damn this one!) and proton cannon. I liked mines in Fusion, rockets should be fired at once, granades rule and quake disruptor is great - all of these plus a comeback of reflector and cloak. Should I mention the weapon fire button MUST be a CIRCLE button? I don't know about the super weapons - some of them were nice (super missiles, turbo enforcer), some ridicouls (power swarm?...). Methinks, if the superweapons were reasonably realistic, that would be good enough. Fireing an orbital laser beam into a single ship on a track is just too much for me. It's difficult to invent a new, good weapon, so I'd like to see a bit more flashy versions of the old weapons (i had this idea, that the weapon pads would open when a craft is flying over them, releasing a weapon which would attach to the craft in a matter of miliseconds. Seeing a turbo pack right next to the engines would be nice....).

TRACKS : Both narrow (w3o style), and wide (w1 and Florion Heights style). No open tracks, not too high walls (like in pilot challenges) No doors opening right before the craft, no elements which would STOP the craft while you fly at max speed. No flip pads, and these nasty force-field walls. Not too much of a feel of flying a damn rollercoaster (it's a racing league alright), but hey, big drops are okay Loops are not, tho. As for the overall feel, well, I think it's time to go back to WOXL. Dark, industrial, japan influenced, heavy, russian.....but it ain't gonna happen. And crowds, AGTV cameras (whatever happened to them since WOXL...), photo flashes, and a Blade Runner feel. Yup.

CRAFTS : For many w3o presented a craft design which was the best so far, and that would include me as well. AG crafts of w3o were something that was a natural consequence of the history, and you could just see it in the design. Fusion craft design got out of control, and I could barely understand why they look like that. Of course that FEISAR had to have a standard shape of an AG Craft, Auricom's design was a w3o Auricom design, but pushed further, and Piranha was just a piece of art (exluding an open cockpit). And that's that, the rest of Fusion was awkwardly wierd in design. Take Tigron for example. It is russian, so the idea is that it would look like it was russian. And it looked like it, except, it was too direct. Why the hell would it look like an old MIG when it's 2160? It still could be showing that it's russian, by the heavy duty look, bad ass attitude, but not THAT style! Van-Uber? Why its german sounding name reflects its Messerschmitt-like design? Other crafts of Fusion were suffering from what should be called a "time gap evolution". What does it mean? Well, first of all, the game is set far in the future, so the designers have gone wild. I think they didn't consider the fact that the ships of previous Wipeouts didn't change much, which was good. It was like "wopeee! it's far future, so let's make them ships totally wierd and twisted!". No offence (designers), you did a good job, but not suited for wipeout. The other thing is that I found the overall design of Fusion being inspired by Star Wars, and that's defenitly NOT the thing I'd like to see in PURE. Just go back to the roots, and continue starting from w3o. Our forum friend, Mano, drew a couple of sketches of ships, which in my opinion would fit PURE prefectly. Especially the one-finned ship. The teams of PURE should be the teams we would remember, not neccesarily the ones we know by far. There is no worst thing that to create a new team, just for us to forget. That was not with the "Great Five" (Feisar, Auricom, Piranha, Qirex, AG-Sys), as they are remembered as the teams we recognise at all times. But try to remember Goteki 45, Xios, Van-Uber,G-Tech....So, the new teams of PURE should be really something, not just names that will disappear just like that....

From the other things that I'd like to mention, would be the issue of the plot, and the pilots. I say - not too many plots, leave that to the instruction manual. Pilots? Why not, but please, no faces, but kewl pilot logos instead.
The design - Designers Republic of course. Too bad it's not gonna happen.

Well, that's the basic outline of what I'd like to see in PURE, and (mostly) what I didn't like about Fusion . Maybe one day I'll have a big coffee, and write a full sized essey on how could PURE look like. Or maybe just the perfect Wipeout instead.

[Mobius]

The design - Designers Republic of course. Too bad it's not gonna happen.

What if we sign a big petition, mabey they will...

I think the E3 trailer showed just 2 tracks (one city and on psychadelic mainframe one) so the russian/japanese style could be waiting in the wings...

as i might have mentioned the rollercoaster feature should be in pure but the loop-d-loop need reworking cause it seemed really rubbish - the corkscrew was great the way they pulled it off.

The should look like what they did on wip3ut (hands up anyone who agrees) - i have seen the quirex ship in the movie - that looks absaloutley pants though! If teams like tigron and g-tech were in it too, cool! more teams - more challenge! (oh and speaking of challenges, eliminator needs to return but in an online multiplayer mode)

weapon wise i hated the mines being fired seperately as i didnt want to repeatedly press fire - just the stream like in it's predocessors. I disagree about the gravity bomb - i thought it was brilliant to watch. I didn't like the super weapon feature - that can go. i want the force wall back that was funny to use but it should be thta your craft can bounce of your own deployment!

The physics engine should be like wip3out or even W3:SE (if i knew what the game was like) as the feeling of floatiness was tops. if i was the lead designer it would be graphically and designically like wip3out - but i'm not so i cant promise anyone anything

but i hope someone from studio liverpool does read this thread and sees what people have said


this is george signing off

[Shem]

TDR ain't gonna come back, I sure don't remember exactly why, but I'm sure it won't happen tho. There was this thread somwhere on the forums explaining what happened, and why, but I don't have the power to sort through the posts to find out what was that all about.
I don't know, Mobius, there's a conflict in what you say. The corcscrew feel of a track and the floaty feel? The ships should fall off the track that way. That;s why Fusion ships are somewhat sticking to the track, no matter the position, so they wouldn't fall down if stopped while being upside down. I'd just like the ships to float over the track, and that's all. To me the ships should defy gravity, but only in terms of floating over the tracks, any upside-down turns should result in falling onto the ground. I know I'm being a wipeout purist, and we've seen all that ship behaviour before (well, not all of it anyway), so there should be a change in wipeout pure. But If the change means taking the same direction as in Fusion, well, I won't be happy about it. But what's most important, I just cannot see another alternatives for the new ship behaviour in PURE. Or maybe there is - a mix of floatiness, and 360 movement. I dunno how this would work out though.