17.92 wit the D-Pad!

[Lance]

.
if you ever have enough excess cash beyond your expenses for classes, food, housing, etc etc, get a neGcon controller. they are so much better than everything else that i swear you'll never go back to on/off buttons again
.

[G'Kyl]

I strongly second that! Even if you set the maximum twist to a minimum (which is what I do in Rapier and Phantom classes), playability will at least be twice as good as with the D-Pad.

[QOORA]

Well, it so happens that at the moment I have some excess money and after reading the topic on controllers and Ur opinions I am seriously considering buying NegCon. The problem is I will probably find it extremely difficult to find it in my country.
Do U know where I can buy it and how much it costs??
I am actually satisfied with my DS2 which is a little bit deteriorated at the moment (thx 2 Tekken and it only makes me mad at the very sharp turns where much precision and accuracy is needed when I am taking them at high speed. I also remember that I wanted to eat that piece of crap when I was playing WF long time ago in the Zone Mode. Up to 60-70th zone it was fine but then I found it extremely difficult to control the ship with the D-Pad So I quit WF

Ok, I have to go to sleep coz today was not my day I wasn't able 2 get under 18. The fastest lap in the race was 18.04 I don't know... maybe tomorrow will be a better day

[Asayyeah]

how can i play a little bit when i have time to do it if i spend all that time reading all the new posts from WZ forum ( especially this new topic :wink: ) :

It seems there was a tough explanation about the rules of the Wipeout tables.
My opinion is it's very important to follow the rules 'cause it will be a totall anarchy otherwise.
I PM Qoora last evening to tell him not arguing with Lance or other people ( life is so short ), i advice him to finish just one race in phanthom and put his time into the tables, it seems at this time he doesn't do it. :-?
i ve tried to explain him it's not really important to put a ' crap ' race time into the tables , even he has done a very good lap time with DPad , he could do beat it easily with practise. ( to proove him my aim , i just switch my ps on for a unique attempt in TT, result i am 12th for the best lap & 12th too for the race time : i don't care about those times ive done 'cause i know deeply inside me i could do better when i ll have more time in front of me ( for instance saturday night).

Just a last precision : it's really harder to make our best on a race time rather than a lap time, i am saying this despite of the fact i prefer lap to race ( not really great difference between the two) but to proove your consistency on a awesome race time means you are doing really incredible laps time into it

However that to say i am entering this week-end a new challenge in TT SE PK ( of course for the lap but also for the race time :wink: )

[Lance]

.
Arnaud, i think you are trying to rule the world [of Wipeout racing, anyway]; you are a true competitor, that is a certainty. i know from personal experience [on TR TT Venom] that you cannot abide a time faster than yours. Bon chance, my friend
.

[lunar]

Though I`ve always followed Lance`s position in this debate, I`d say Qoora`s position is the most rational.

I have never entered a lap time in which I didn`t finish the race, as it couldn`t be saved to the memory card and therefore couldn`t be verified. this is the only reason I wouldn`t count these times. But if we don`t require memory card verification, then what`s the point of finishing the race for the sake of it? There is no causal relationship between finishing the race (or not) and achieving the lap time.

We all take constant restarts (something F1 drivers can`t do) in order to get good times. What difference does it make if a pilot never does more than two laps? He has still flown the fast lap fairly, demonstrated his skill, and used no performance enhancing cheat. If I fly a whole race and can`t beat Qoora`s 17.92, then I`m perfectly happy to say he`s better at doing one flying lap on that track/class than I am..... because its obviously true.

There are many ways of achieving a good phantom lap.... if you screw up lap two you could fill up with juice at the end of it, take it easy on lap 3, then hammer lap 4 with a good run up to the start. This would be a valid strategy too, allowed by the rules as stated, but certainly is not lifelike racing. Qoora`s method is just the same as this, only without the boring third lap. (I hope you`re still following me here :wink: )

Lap times can be a complicated and sometimes chancy beast, that`s the nature of them, and that`s why I prefer race times as a challenge. If we do not require memory card saves for verification, pilots should provide an alternative, but I really can`t see why it should be necessary to finish the race if another form of verification from memory card data is accepted and offered. Of course I don`t make the rules, but I think Qoora`s time should be allowed to stand, as the rules at the time he made his 17.92 run did not prohibit his actions.



On the other hand, I think there should be memory card verification for all record times, with very few exceptions, but that`s another story and no-one will agree with me. :wink:

[Task]

It's amazing how so many people can miss the point so entirely.

The ENTIRE point of the record tables is to record the best times we can manage and see how we compare to others.

What say someone says "are you sure about that one?", what do you do? Dig up the napkin you wrote those times on while you were at a friends place? Hell, no. You turn on the Playstation, put in the MEMORY CARD, and load up Wipout Whatever.

The memory card remembers for you. All possibility for uncertainty is dispelled in entirety because the numbers are stored there on the memory card.

That's why you have to complete the race, so that you can look at the saved records later. You'll never doubt what your best is because it's inscribed in solid-state RAM chips.

[lunar]

If memory card verification is insisted upon I would agree with you, and I would not accept Qoora`s time.

If it is not insisted on, which seems to be the case, I see no purpose in finishing the race and I would accept Qoora`s time.

that seems to me to be the crux of the matter. there`s no point finishing the race other than to record the time onto the memory card.

[G'Kyl]

But there is, at least as far as I can see, a point in having to finish the race as someone MIGHT, in theory, be able to do a fantastic first lap and then not make it through the second lap in order to recharge his shields. I do, however, agree with the opinion that this is highly unlikely and so think QOORA`s time should be considered valid.
Yet there is another side to this argument, which simply goes: In order to keep most of the people satisfied we need to stick to the rules the record tables are based on. And since I do not believe finishing a race after a good lap should be a problem, than there should be... no problem. :) Except of course there were a majority of people asking for a change of this rule. Yes, it may cost QOORA more time that way, but that should be a small enough price to pay.

Taks: QOORA isunable to save his records, as he mentioned before. So should he not be allowed to enter the tables just for that? After all, there is no method whatsoever to check the memory card savings from all piolts on this site, so this shouldn`t really be a problem after all. Also, I always had the strong feeling that we can indeed rely on the honesty of every pilot around here.

Ben

[Shem]

My opinion :
It's all about racing. It is simple as that. The more we all try to clarify the unwritten law's of record tables the more we sink into deep s***. To race is to start from a starting line (no turning around to gain distance, hence - speed), go forward, keep to a racing line, finish the race. What is the problem then?
The usage of hyperthrust? It is a matter of how you look at it.. If sb races through only ONE lap, then it is more of a drag lap than a regular race. Maybe we should create a record table for those who rather drag lap than to fly as everyone else on the record tables?
The other problem - the skills. Race time shows the skills of a pilot. It shows that good pilots can make 5PL with no sweat, and the longer they stick to their best racing line, improving their times from one lap to another, the more they proove their skills.
And I really do not belive someone has no time to finish the race. If they have no time, create a "weekend warrior" racing table for them. Ppl here spend a lot of time racing, and to catch up with them is to race as much.

[QOORA]

Hi again. I can see that finally another rational person has appeared who see my way of reasoning. Thx for support Lunar. On the other hand, as Assayeah has implied, let's stop arguing.
I have my own opinion and I think I am right. I think that the best thing in the world are rules becuase u always know what to do and noone can say u r doing something in a wrong way. In the case of my result there some problems with those rules which actually were not stated, although they should've been.
But when I read opinions such as Shem's I don't really know why there is the distinction between Race Times records and Lap Records. Geeez, I think that in Lap competition U do all that is allowed only to achieve one absolutely astonishing lap! I don't have to care about the whole race if the memory card verification is not required. What U r saying Shem is illogical because some of the ppl said before that U may well go as slow as u want in the rest of the laps just to get to the finish line and save ur best lap. This is called, as I said before, art for art's sake and it is nonsensical. And when I want to finish the race and get a good time then I can change my strategy and go for as good Race Time as possible.
Anyways, I would like that the rules be stated clearly and I guess that the best thing would be some verification of the records. But this is just my opinion.
I didn't enter just any race Time as Assayeah suggested because I thought it would be not fair anyways. After all, it would not be the race in which I got my 17.92.

Now I am trying to repeat my success and finish that stupid race which I didn't finish when I first got my result just because I didn't know I had to do it. I just stopped after that lap, switched on my PC and grabbed the screens. The problem is: what if I don't get that result again?? Than I would be punished by those unwritten rules of yours. I gues even the person who has the first time in the table do not get 17.38 every five minutes, right??

Ok, I don't really want to argue anymore. Although I think that Lane and some other people are not right I will try to conform to those "rules" and this time get a good time and finish the race.
Greetings 2 all

PS And it really is not my fault Shem that after playing W3 SE for 3 days I managed to pull off that result. And, for Ur information I have already done 4 or 5 PL in a row, but understand one simple thing... in TT fo THE FASTEST LAP I don't have to care for all the laps. I gues this is self - explanatory!

[G'Kyl]

QOORA, just keep trying and put too much pressure on yourself. Naturally, I can only really speak for myself, but when I feel like I HAVE to beat a certain time NOW I am hardly ever successful. Keep racing and you will surely improve soon enough on your own record.

[QOORA]

Maybe U r right. The problem is however, that it is not my copy of the game and I'll have to return it in a week or two. And there are still so many races to go.
Besides I really have little time to play videogames for myself as my job, studies and other obligations take up most of my time
Well, we'll see.

[Shem]

I neither want to argue about such a thing, becouse life IS too short, but there's something I want to explain.
Look at the record tables. For anyone who looks at it, Lap Times and Race Times are connected with eachother. When I first looked at it, I thought like "Okay, so the best lap times come from the best race times..". That was my first impression, and I guess it was the same with a majority of others. After all, you had the right to understand it in your own way, but I'm not so sure if other ppl who had flown a whole race for the best laptime (competing on the record tables) would be happy about it. And so they weren't. And they had the right to do so as well.
I'm not angry about the laptime you achieved with your one-lap technique beating me and all that. I just don't know if the laptime records section is the right place to enter your laptime. The main reason for that would be the other ppl who, as I assume, went for the whole race to get the fastest laptime. For me it's not a problem to hit the hyperthrust for the whole one lap, set a new laptime, and bob's ur uncle. But I don't do that. I'm for a flight. It gives me a lot more satisfaction to set a fastest laptime knowing that I achieved it after a 4 lap battle with Icaras. I guess that's what differes us from eachother QOORA.

All in all, there's a new contest in which You can participate. Have a go. I'll just step aside and watch, I'm used to my style of racing. Cheers!

[G'Kyl]

You can still participate in the contest, Shem. :) The rules are "finish the race", so there would be no complaints from the majority of drivers.

QOORA: Do you have no chance of getting a copy of 3SE in Poland? And if so, what about ebay.de or amazon.de? After May 1 shipping shouldn`t be a problem any more. ;)

Ben

[QOORA]

Again, I think U r misunderstanding me, Shem. I hate repeating myself but...
Look, according to your way of thinking EVERYBODY who got his fastest lap time in the first lap should has his result invalidated. This is just plain silly. So why isn't there a table for fastest first lap, second, third and so on... That would be fair... and ridiculous at the same time... This is really getting funny. What if I said " Hey, ppl I got 17.00 flying my ship back to front!" Would u then say "no, no... that is not fair... everybody is flying in a normal way". Knowing Your attitude I really am surprised that u allow for the big jump method which, in my opinion, is not all that fair.
I will once again repeat... it wasn't a problem 4 me to complete the race but I simply didn't know there was a need for doing that. That's why I just stopped to grab the screenshot. I wasn't interested in doing fastest race then and that's the only reason for my stopping. As for my technique I think it is probably not very much different from yours or any other pilot's from that forum. And, as I said before, I didn't even use up whole shield for hyperthrust because, throughout the lap I hyperthrusted only 2 or 3 times (don't remember exactly) and after the first lap I still had enough shield to go on without worries. Geez, I don't even want to mention that getting such result from a stationary start is more difficult than from flying start.

PS Shem, my yet another conclusion after having read your post is that if one gets his fastest lap in a race which is not his fastest, he shouldn't post that result... now think... isn't that totally sick??

EDIT: What contest r u talking about??

As for W3 I checked our internet auction and internet shops and there is only Wipeout Fusion. They didn't even have W3 SE in Media Markt where the assortment is really wide. As for e.bay and so on... I have never bought something via the internet from abroad ops: ops: Don't even know how to do it ops: ops: But I will think about it

[Asayyeah]

I didn't enter just any race Time as Assayeah suggested because I thought it would be not fair anyways. After all, it would not be the race in which I got my 17.92. !

I understood what you mean, QOORA
I have not the time to dig one of an old topic focused on that kind of discussion, but here's the global thought of most of the wipers from that site: it's totally fair to put a best lap time in the tables which isn't realizing in the best race time you put into those tables
So your 17.92 is obviously valid for me. Even you can't realize it into your next entire race, it's valid, totally valid.

For those who are sceptic about that just check tables.
QOORA is not the only one who gets only a lap for a track and not the race or the opposite ( a race time & not a lap).
Wanna 2 big examples?
Me in the SE classic tables with my 15.44 in Talon's reach...i didn't get my race time ....or Al who only gets his race times but not his lap times ( Valpa, phenitia, gare d'europa, odessa, vostok XL TT & SR phanthom)
Could someone blame us for that....i think no, so don't blame QOORA :wink:

I am really sure he will finish a race to proove us he can do an entire race :wink: and when he wants ' and have the time to do it) without the pressure of anybody else.

Hey this community is living due to his old members but also due to his new ones.
So a warm wellcome to you QOORA from me

[Shem]

What the...? :-?
First of all, I don't use the big jump at Porto Kora (moving back to the post about it, I was mentioning that the craft behaves differently in W3O and SE, which concerned not hitting the wall after a jump after the ramp at Porto Kora [in SE it's easier to avoid the collision at high speed, which keeps the speed]). Let's set it straight.
Your technique seems to be different from others becouse of all the fuss about it.
What you described as "just plain silly" is silly indeed if you're talking about ppl who have similar lap times in a whole race, but it is not so ridiculous to me if someone had like 17.80 (1), 22.45 (2), 21.67 (3), 19.40 (4) and so on...
Okay, I won't argue about it anymore. U fly the way u like, I will fly the way I used to. The end.

[Roger]

Interesting thread, this. Here's my two cents worth...

As I see it, a race or time trial is a set number of laps around the track. The number of laps varies depending on what class you race in, as does the speed. You either finish the race/TT, or you don't. The sole objective of race/TT is to reach the goal upon completion of the required number of laps!. Anything less is a failure. Race aborted = failure. "Contender eliminated" = failure.

If you finish the run and in the process get a sweet race and/or lap time, good on you, mate - enter it in the tables! But if you can't be bothered to finish, or crash and burn, well that's just too bad :cry: Try again, 'cause you ain't got the right stuff just yet.

I've myself always taken it as a given fact that only results of finished runs are valid for the WipeoutZone tables. I've not read it anywhere, it's just so obvious (up until now, apparently). Go ahead and fly backwards, for all I care, just as long as you finish the race! Then, and ONLY THEN, am I interested in screenshots

As for first lap records, i've seen no mention of them being forbidden. I have a couple of them myself, although they are rare. And as for shortcuts, now that's a different story. Flying starts are a no-no in my book.
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edit: QOORA, you've certainly brought a breath of fresh air into the forum, with your "outside the box" kind of thinking. Hope you get hold of a WO3SE copy of your own!