SR talons reach theoretically faster than TT?

[Mano]

I have been playing talons even more, and it is to my impression that talons reach SR can have a faster race time than in TT... why? because the first lap is faster in SR than in TT, so far i have pulled 15.5 secs on SR 1st lap, and only 16.1 secs on TT 1st lap, my fastest lap time so far is the same in both = 15.1 but my consistency still sucks so my race times havent improved much, i think i need more experience to be more consistent (practice, PRACTICE!), think with proper race lines and doing it as fast as you can you can make the same lap times in SR than in TT (so far ii have been able to)... maybe not but who knows i just want to hear some opinions about it

[Asayyeah]

Here's mine, Mano:
You are right, theoritically Sr is faster than TT for the race; the ships in sr could slow you down ( even not touch them but just avoid them when they are in your fastest trajectory, so you up your nose a little bit : result you loose a little speed ( just 0.3 or 0.5 sec but if you had this with 5 lap your time will be higher than your TT's ( even you ve done 5 PL)
On 2097 Pal in SR my best lap1 is 15.8 or 15.7 ( dont remember with precision) in TT ive done 16.3 on lap1
My best Sr race will be into the tape for Al, ive done for him a nice 1.17.1 ( 16.1/15.2/15.2/15.4/15.2)
I share the same Lap time for ST & TT : 14.7 ( ive done one for Al in TT video)
But i must say the 14.7 is really close to be broken ( but actually not :cry: & when sou say, Mano, ' i need more experience to be more consistent' : it's absolutely my case, i need to gain experience, races by races to reach my personnal goal...
Today i was annoying by many reasons ( tv crashes, unfinished videotape for Al...) but this evening i 've forgotten all those hard stuff , and have been playing Talon's reach, again... with a new race highscore : it's always in TT with pirahna but this time i used the turning back method to compare with a normal SR race with faster lap1...
Few years ago it was in French Guyana ive made with this method 1.15.1, and i beat this one tonight . result 1.15.0 ( 15.2/14.7/14.9/15.0/15.2)
Which was funny to see , when i started a normal TT race ( without turning) i crossed my ghost turning back into the tunnel

[Mano]

Amazing SR time! congratulations, thats even faster than my actual XL TT time!! , i have absolutely no doubts that you can get that 14.6 lap time soon; in time you might discover something that could make you get an even faster time, i have that feeling.

seeing that i can make fast 1st laps i might be doing something very wrong on the rest of the laps as i cant get under 15.1 yet, and havent done it twice in a race either; my main problem is my timing, i sometimes hit airbrakes at a good moment and angle and a get a nice boost... most of the times i get a boost but its not optimal, i really need to hit the S curve right as its very important to get a fast exit speed to improve my actual time, btw i havent been taking the first turn shortcut to the right.. maybe that could make me reach an under 15.1 time.. i will try that

[Asayyeah]

Just to say one word :2 years and a half ago i wasn't cut like this , i was scraping along the long right curve ( i was crossing the X2pads around 470/480 but many times with that speed i reseted ( from 492 to 392) just before the C section just above the X2 pads on the left side. nevertheless i ve done without cutting ( when i wasn't reseted speed) 14.8. I ve reached 14.7 due to obviously cutting, but i might say it's very hard not to bump just when you land after the cut ( add smthing important when i cut i land on the X2 pads so i don't cut very much ) Without bumping i land around 465 if i can maintain this speed nearly around the whole race, 14.5 could be even possible but in what year?... 2016 for the 20th birthday of 2097/XL :

[Lance]

.
:
[acts casual. turns palm up and curls fingers up, looks at fingernails. says:] oh, yah. 14.7 seconds. i could do that if i really wanted to.
uh huh. yep
.

[JABBERJAW]

mano, xl is slower than 2097 for talon's reach, the games play much differently when assayeahs technique is used. I seriously doubt 14.9 can be beaten on xl. For the rest of the tracks xl is faster though.

[G'Kyl]

mano, xl is slower than 2097 for talon's reach [...] For the rest of the tracks xl is faster though.

To cut right to the chase: How is that?

Ben

[JABBERJAW]

The braking technique is more prevalent in 2097, meaning you can stay at a much higher top speed if there are no turns that you need to crank on the brakes. . The top speed on talon's for xl ranges from 344 to 400(roughly. 344 top speed without turbos, and 400 with turbos + brake technique). For 2097 the speed ranges from 344 to 482. Since it is possible to keep your speed at 440 and above the entire lap, it becomes faster.
going 344 in xl is similar to going about 380-400 in 2097(as far as speed is concerned. the games time runs differently for some reason). So, averaging 450 on 2097 is faster than averaging 370 for xl by a small amount. The other tracks are faster on xl because the speed drops well below 400 on many of the tracks for 2097 when you need to make the hard turns, and it takes too long to get back up above 440 before the next turn.

[Asayyeah]

Well seen Al, just one word to add concerning the comparaison between XL/2097 are you totally sure that there's only Talon's reach which is faster in 2097 rather than XL;
I have a doubt on 2 more tracks: sagarmatha & Valparaiso, recently i smashed my old TTrace time on Valpa ( before 2.12.0 , actually 2.08.1) and when i see yout TT racetime on XL Valpa it was 2.11.8 , maybe you have done better but that was i saw on the leagues, so maybe Valpa could be a faster track too. Sagarmatha except for the big 90°right corner ( up) where i loose lots of speed, my racetime is quite similar as your XL.
Ive made 15.8 a lap on it ( only a 15.9 into the tape for you)
My opinion :we should practise and practise more &more ( as Mano said) and with that we can find the way for improving our times.
Last word....this game have no limit...

BTW Al i just send the tape today ( they told me you will received it in 6 or 9 days from today) 5 € not expensive.

[JABBERJAW]

valpo and sagar are not even close. Even though our times are similar, I did not use the technique on that time. I'm sure 4 seconds faster is very possible(at least). Valpo is about 5 seconds slower using the technique based on my good lap times for both.

[Mano]

Also there is this matter of decceleration... is decceleration is the same in both versions? ups, jumps, corners, etc.... holding up speed is very important; I try not to lose speed, cos in the end it matters a lot, even if you lose a little and manage to get the speed back airbraking on a speedpad, it sometimes makes you lose that precious 0.1 you needed (depending on how much time or how long a distance you need to build the speed back).

***edit***

nevermind, Al already answered this in this same thread.... didnt noticed his post im a bit distracted and unfocused today

[Asayyeah]

News from Valparaiso : i noticed tonight with my pal Sleeh-003, strange things about my braking method. Can't really describe that in proper english words nevertheless the result is there i 've beaten my formerValpa time which was 24.6 by a new 24.3, nothing new about the race time ( done a 2.09.4 tonight but with an hell 's starting: 25.7 / 24.7/ 24.9 and 2 bad laps after that...dawn i can break the 2.05.0 barrier

Oups i will stop there with comments on Valpa :cry: , sorry Mano :wink: , it was originaly a topic about Talon's reach...i loose my mind on 2097, don't blame me

[Mano]

Dont stop! more info on track racing is always welcome , any track, or maybe you can make a new topic if you want , i think with all the discussions we have made we can really add them up to make a great talons guide, specially with knowledge from you and Al, from me there are only questions.

[Lance]

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i need more skill before i can ask questions. so far i've tried Piranha at Talon's Reach Phantom TT on three occasions. my best so far is 17.8 lap, 1:33.5 race. so i should practice first, question later.
[i have that same lap time in Rapier class. sheesh.]
[haven't done SR with Piranha at all]
.

update: 17.2

[Mano]

hey Lance being those times arent bad at all, much less considering its the third ocassion you play with piranha phantom on talons.

Guys i just updated my TT and SR table times, getting a bit better, specially in SR; could be the fact that i am using a 19" tv now, i was using my playstation hooked to my pc tv tuner card via RF cable, and then displayed to my 17" monitor, the image was a bit degraded and everything was a bit dark with less contrast and some color bleeding (tho the darkness was easily fixed with more brightness and gamma correction).

And tomorrow the 27" tv comes back from the technician!

[Asayyeah]

congrats for your 1.17.3 and 15.0 !! you've done an amazing improvment
Ive noticed you are better in sr than in TT ( did you practise more on sr ?)
Another quick question, with that 15.0 what 's your best speed inside that race and where did you decrease a bit your speed. Did you also use the method of braking on pads or something else?

[Mano]

Thanks Asayyeah, yes i play more SR than TT, my fastest speed is 400 or could be a little more 401-403 but its usually right before a jump or ramp up, so it immediately goes down; the one ramp up from the first curve of the track mostly, and i get around that speed again or 390 right before the second jump after the first curve after hitting the X2 speedpad

I use your airbrake technique on speedpads also use it right on top of the first turn before going down (works a little bit but not as much as on a speed pad), my speed goes down in jumps specially; if i land correctly with a good pitch the speed down is less, also a bit on turns; but the part that gets my nerves is the S curve, its the one i have most trouble keeping up speed, i usually exit the S curve around 360-365, but the optimal i have gotten is 380+ (dont remember exactly, may be more) and i want to get that every lap on the race but i have to practice a bit more to get that, it is very important to keep up speed there as the C section after the S curve has no elements to speed up again and is long!

**edit**

i almost forgot to mention, i didnt write down my lap times on the 1:17.3 race.. but i remember that 1st lap i did 15.4-15.5 i think, and my fastest lap was 15.1secs , didnt do the 15.0 on that race

[Lance]

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27 inch tv?! gasp! how can i compete with that. i only have a 13 and i race without my contact lenses in while sitting too far back from the tv to focus sharply. eek!!!!
but really, mano, i doubt that it's the tv giving you extra racing powers.

i was inspired by all this talk of sub-15 second laps to try piranha a fourth time last night. it's so frustrating to get one good by my standards lap, and crash badly on all the others. the hard part for me seems to be to avoid thinking about things while racing. even if what i'm thinking about is conscious thoughts about the racing itself, it seems to distract me, and bam, into a wall and bounce over to a wall on the other side of the track. and speaking of good by my standards, when i make a clean lap with no crashes on the first lap, it's still in the 18s or 19s. how in the hell are you guys getting in the 15s? uhoh, i'm asking questions before getting consistency. wrong move
.

[Asayyeah]

You know it's only 2 years after buying my first Neg, i went under 16 ( not 15, ok..), so you can't really hope in having sub 15 or even a sub 16 in just 1 month after you discovered Neg-Universe. Patience ( and practising ) could lead to perfection, Lance ( and you already know this perfectly)...
Let me give you a small tip from me : Do TT pirahna Talon's in phanthom class ( just 2 or 3 races not more) then go under in Rapier and spent at least 30 min' on it , then go back to phanthom and spent about 15 min' ...you will see if you done this training 2 or 3 days ( write on paper the time you ve done each day), that gradually you will have very soon decent time on rapier and also Phanthom won't be an unsurmountable thing... :wink:

[Lance]

.
i did something like that last night. my rapier class time was 17.8 for the lap, 1:53.3 for the race. not too shabby judging by the times i see over in the 2097 tables. there is hope for my phantom, but so far no performance
.

keeping track, an update

Rapier class: lap,17.8; racetime 1:14.6
Phantom class: lap, 17.1; racetime 131.4