to Jay and George: new times

[Lance]

.
i've posted some new times in vector and venom classes in both time trial and single race for Talon's reach and Phenitia Park. there are a few of them that you might want to do something about.
.

[Wiseman]

Woo hoo! A reason for me to race Phenitia Park again.

It's going to take some work to beat that Vector TT time of yours, but this is definitely some work I look forward to.

[Lance]

.
well, actually i'm hoping that you can't beat that particular time.
or at least that i can beat whatever you do in response.

btw, some of those new times i made with D-pad and some with neGcon

man, the three of us battling away with Qirex. this is great stuff!

i wish there were more Qirex users over on the 2097 tables so we could see how we're doing relative to them. i tried Piranha a couple of nights ago on vector class TT at Phenitia Park, and on my fourth race ever with that ship on that course got a 45.6 lap and a 1:32.2 race, which are noticeably quicker than the fastest time on those tables, so i'm thinking that NTSC might be faster than PAL for this class and track. on Talon's Reach, though, it looks like the two versions may not be far apart at all. or maybe Talon's Reach is just easier to drive, so that more difficult tracks would mostly reflect differences in skill. yep, the same old lament: i wish there were one worldwide standard version
.
.

[Lance]

.
another new time with Qirex: Odessa Keys Vector TT :
lap 52.5
race 1:45.3

1st lap was 52.8

i noticed something i've only seen one time before on XL; it showed 52.5 as being a new lap record on this particular run, even though i already had a 52.5 from an earlier race. so the game must keep track of hundredths of a second internally and that lap on this race was just a little faster than the previous 52.5
.

[Task]

Sweet Jesus.

I finally got some time to do a bit of racing, so I queried the DB here for top 3, wrote down your best times for Talon's Reach, loaded up the WOXL, and tackled them.

I started with Vector TT, and I can't beat it. As far as I know, I'm not doing anything wrong. Two totally perfect laps, using the boost near the end of the first lap and after the first turn of the second, and all I can do is match my old 1:09 time.

Congratulations Lance. I used to be able to put a good 15 minutes into a race and beat your times, but now you've totally baffled me!
Where did you find the half second to take off a Vector TT?!?

Considering that (AFAIK) I was your first serious opponent on the tables, I've kind of got this whole "The student has surpassed the master!" feeling. Simply fantastic.

[Lance]

.
thank you, kind sir.
you were indeed my first competition companion in the WipeoutZone. and it was great fun, and really hooked me permanently on this place. you have of course noticed how closely matched we still are on those laptimes on Talon's Reach! yikes!

about the time, all i can say is that it takes absolute perfection of line on vector, having your mind in the 'zone' so that you're not distracted and have no conscious thought in your head. that is in fact my great weakness; i find it very hard to stop thinking about other things, no matter how fast the racing gets. most of the times you see in the lower classes represent a lot of work, a lot of time spent, a hell of a lot of restarts because i couldn't keep my mind on the track.

i haven't put so much effort into the Phantom class races, so you might want to go after them first.
.

[Task]

Nuh-unh. I start at the lower speed classes and only move up when I feel I have perfected the basics. The reason I don't have many good Phantom times is because I feel I'm still missing a lot in my Rapier game. I had thought that my Vector and Venoms were pretty close to perfect, and I'm happy to find out that it's just a matter of more practice and achieving even tighter perfection. It's not like I'm missing anything major, I just need a bit more focus. Very good to know.

I shall go after you at the Vector level before I proceed to even Venom, for that is my way.

I've found that the negcon doesn't help me much at the slower speeds, do you concur?
Similarly, have you found it necessary to completely stay off the walls? As in, not even the slightest amount of scraping?

[Lance]

.
neGcon may not help as much in the lower classes, but it does help. mostly by letting you steer a really precise line. i've tried to make my line through a lap as short as possible while still going across all the speed pads. i'm not sure yet whether i should hit all the speed pads in rapier or phantom classes, but you must do it in the slower ones.

i would have thought that there should be no scraping whatever, and i generally try to do that, but yesterday after questioning Ben's 2097 Qirex lap which beat Arnaud's Piranha lap in TR Venom TT, i tried to see if it was possible and my fastest time came when i had a considerable amount of light scraping. it must be that a shorter line slightly more than compensated for the lost average speed in those spots. the whole lap felt a good deal rougher and less relaxed than my previous best had been. but it may be that i just handled the tricky bit through the S into the tunnel well enough that it made up for an actual loss elsewhere. that's the trouble in figuring out the fastest way, particularly in anything other than vector class, the consistency of performance that would let us make valid comparison's of different techniques is hard to come by. for me, anyway. my piloting is decidedly erratic

oh, one other thing: experiment with the turbos everywhere; don't get locked into a habit of using them always in the same place that seems to be the best or the logical choice. i've even used turbo in the long checkerboard tunnel on Talon's Reach.
not that that's the best thing to do
.

[G'Kyl]

.
i've even used turbo in the long checkerboard tunnel on Talon's Reach.
not that that's the best thing to do
.

[ ] I must have been real desperate.
[ ] I will try this on Phantom.


Sorry, just kidding, I couldn't resist. No offense. :-)

Ben

[Asayyeah]

i could suggest in phanthom get the turbo when you are in the pits... ( Kamikaze way of life) :-?

[Lance]

.
i've done that in Vector
.

[Lance]

.
an update on that Vector TT time, i've cut that by another tenth to 1:08.4
the first lap was 34.8, the second 33.6

i think this time is beatable still using a Qirex. i suspect that at least another 2 tenths could come off there

also lowered my Qirex lap record to 32.2, but that particular run was only a 1:09.0 for the full race

also tried Piranha. current laptime, 30.9, racetime, 1:03.2
.

[G'Kyl]

Lance, why do you have to put that much pressure on me?! Just one question, just so I know: Do you a lot of wall scraping or try to avoid the walls? I figured the slight speed boost you get from scraping does not compensate for the wideer line you often have to take, but I'm not entirely sure yet.

Ben

[Lance]

.
i thought i covered that one in the post of 17 Apr 2004 20:38, but anyway, i try to avoid scraping but am only moderately successful. someone else mentioned somewhere that there can be a scrapeboost in the curves but not on the straights. i've found that to be true, but for the most part have not found the boost to be useful. but i suspect that it potentially could be if i picked the right spots and were skilled enough to avoid mucking it up.

[i also cut my lap and race times in Vector and Venom SR]
.

[G'Kyl]

i thought i covered that one in the post of 17 Apr 2004 20:38

Oh, sorry then. I remembered having read that, only thought it had been written by someone else. Well. alright, now at least I know I am on the right track in terms of driving style.

Ben

[Mano]

The scrape comment came from me, was a bit of a question tho.

I have found its best to use the scrape when landing from a jump (nice boost), and ending a turn (sometimes not). its a bit tricky to implement and i dont rely on them too much for my times; but lately i have been conscious about few parts of the track were its good to use scrape and mantaining the racing line and have been doing it instinctively, with a lot of mistakes of course

[Lance]

.
for those of you who may be watching the documentary film, ''Lance learns to fly a Fish'' [subtitle: I Crashed a Thousand Times and Lived] here is the current report: [they get progressively worse as the speeds go up]

XL TR TT for all classes:
Vector: 30.8,1:02.8
Venom: 26.2, 1:20.2
Rapier: 17.8, 1:14.2
Phantom: 16.7, 1:29.2

except for Vector class, i've not raced SR much and it shows. here is the embarassing truth:

Vector: 31.0, 1:02.4
Venom: 26.6, 1:22.4
Rapier: 19.8, 1:26.7
Phantom: 18.8, 1:40.1

[Lance can be heard gagging in the background at the sight of that last lot]
Tune in tomorrow or whenever for the continuing stooory of...
.

edit:
news flash! Lance has just lowered the XL TR TT Qirex racetime to an unbelievable 1:08.3! :roll:

[toddles off to update records]

[G'Kyl]

And some improvement with the Quirex on my side (all TR TT, of course):

Rapier: 0:19.9 - 1:25.5
Phantom: 0:18.2 - 1:39.0

I KNOW it is possible to get below the 0:18.0 lap time mark with the Quirex - but I just couldn`t do it tomorrow morning.

Ben

EDIT: Huh? TOMORROW morning?`Must have still been real sleepy... Well, you guessed it; I meant THIS morning.
Mymymy, no wonder I didn't get a 1:17.x.

[Lance]

.
Jay, here is a further thought [or something] on neGcon vs. D-pad in slower classes. i hadn't used D-pad since a day or two after i got the neG, so i tried it again a couple of days ago to see if my racing had taught me anything and to test how much difference the controller actually makes. before i got the neGcon, i think my best time in XL TR TT was 1:11 or thereabouts, then after i got the neG i worked my posterior off and got it down to 1:09.8 and wondered how in the hell were you and George still so far ahead of me. a few weeks later, i tried again and we see the result. so after that last cut to 1:08.3 i tried the D-pad again and after 5 runs i got a 1:08.9 and clearly with more practice could lower it at least another 2 or 3 tenths. so it seems evident that most of my improvement was due to really learning the track better and just getting practicepracticepractice. however, i don't think i could ever equal the neG time with the digital, so there is still an edge to using neGcon, and it was the smoothness and precision of it that really allowed me to learn the track better. i don't think i could ever have done the 1:08.9 with a D-pad without the extensive racing with neG first. and the 'feel' of it just can't be beaten. the D-pad felt like i was stuttering, but the neGcon feels like i am singing
.

[Lance]

.
well. um.... it's hard to say this without sounding like i'm bragging. i just lowered the XL TR Vector TT Qirex race record by another six tenths of a second. i can hardly believe that much was possible, but now i know from the individual laptimes done during the 10 or so attempts that at least a further tenth can be removed. my current record stands at 1:07.7 done with a 34.7 [i have done 34.6] on the first lap, and a 33.0 on the second [my 32.2 was only done on a specific attempt for best laptime].

i was feeling a little 'trudgy' after supper this evening, so i fired up the PSX in an attempt to wake up. started slow for a change in Vector. third try and i lowered the time by a tenth to 1:08.2, then next race i did the same time again. then some more attempts with the time dropping to .1, then .0
these races were done with either the first lap or the second lap being very good with the other being poor, so i knew by that time that a 1:07.6 should be possible. then about on race number 10, i got two good laps together and got the 1:07.7

but we can do better than that with Qirex. probably not just one tenth better, either, but probably below .5. i wouldn't have thought it possible before tonight, but now i believe. these times were all done without shortcuts and most definitely without turning around before the start to get a run-up to speed before triggering the timer. it is a matter of perfecting the racing line. and of course, don't forget to press the turbo button
i should probably write a Piloting Tip post for this ship and track and speed class. for the first time in my Wipeout career, i feel like i might actually be the right person to write a tip for a particular race. if feels damn good
.

edit:23:53 local time. now 1:07.5
fastest first lap 34.3
so a 1:07.3 should be possible

edit: 1:07.4
1:07.2 is possible

yikes. after basking in the glow for a while i turned on the tv shows and there is Robert Smith and the Cure playing. and just after that the promos said that Patti Smith is going to be on the next show. what a night!