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Thread: What would it take to make a NEW Wipeout ? -Estimate from those who know.

  1. #41
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    Thinking about it, when you disect what actually makes an every-day racing spectator sport, or any kind of sport for that matter, it's actually really interesting to think how it would apply to Wipeout, because WO is so COMPLETELY different.

    Take this as an example; as soon as luck becomes a defining factor in the outcome of a competition people would lose interest. It has to always be about raw talent. For this reason you couldn't use all the weapons in competative Wipeout. If 2 players hit the same amount of weapon pads and one guy gets 10 turbos and the other get's 10 shields, it would lose it's credibility as a competition. "Okay, so why not clean races?" I hear you say. Well, personally I don't think that would work either. The danger of a collision is one of the most interesting parts of any motor sport, and as well as that you'd lose a huge, huge part of what makes WO what it is if you were to take that away.

    How you'd structure WO as an eSport so it's exciting, competative, and fair all at once wouldn't be easy.

  2. #42
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    We’ve got the solution then. The next WipEout needs to be the CS:GO of the franchise: developed around match making.

  3. #43
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    Actually, maybe a rank restriction wouldn't even be that bad, though it is sad to think that such things keep new players away from a game...

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    What about level tiers that translate to trophies or competition? Maybe to compete in higher tiers, you have to either: play a dedicated number of hours, win enough races, or rank high enough in speed laps and time trials.

    So example time: I buy a new game at the same time a new player does. We meet online. I win a bunch of races, and the new pilot does not. We all start out ranked at 0. But I float up to the next tier, and he stays at the same tier until he progresses far enough along to level up. So when we each log on, the matches we see will match up based on our rank tier. I would also add the option to be able to enable/disable tiered matching. So that way if a new pilot wanted to race against veteran pilots they could, but they would know what they were getting into. Otherwise, they would see only competition in their league.

    Titanfall 2 did this to some degree and I was terrible at first. I played other terrible players, so it didn't seem like it was that unfair. It kept me playing without getting too turned off by better players. Now once again, having an option to disable tiered matching allows unskilled pilots to see that there are new plateaus to play on, but they would not feel obligated to do so unless they wanted to.

    Another option might also be to have a new "casual" play more that has mechanics that unfairly help out struggling players. Kind of like how Mariokart does with the superweapons. So you could search for casual lobbies if you wanted to play more casual less technical races (maybe put some bumpers on Sol, for example). I think there is a way to extend an olive branch to new pilots while keeping us pro's around too.

    Connovar's site already has rankings based on formulas. The same thing could be applied to a game based on lap times and cumulative scores for example. Maybe tier one has a pool of 100% of players in it, the next tier jumps up to the top 75%, 50%, and then 25% and an elite top 10%.

  5. #45
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    While valid, these points all focus around the player, which isn't the issue. Successful sports are not focused around the player whatsoever, but the spectator. It has to be entertaining to watch.

    5 laps on Phantom with all weapons, while is fantastic joyful mayhem to participate in, is a completely unfeasible way of hosting a legitimate competition. As a spectator you'd also miss half the action.

  6. #46
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    There was a reason Spectator mode was removed.

    It could dramatically effect the game in process depending on the region the person was spectating from.

    That can't be fixed in software, reason being it's purely a problem related to distance

  7. #47
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    That's interesting.

    Why would it affect WO in such a way but not, say, a strategy game with over 100 spectators?

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    I feel the same as you... since I was a child this saga was one of the first I had the possibility to play with, even when studio Liverpool shut down I felt like WipEout will never come back, but now I feel like Sony did this in purpose to get money and not giving back the memories, you can see my point giving all those beauty press kits with floating ships... So I agreed with you, Itīs not fair but at least those true fans maintain a good community, and yes Iīm new to the forum but not at the game, Ive been playing themī saga since the release of WipEout 3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In my fair opinion of FPS shooters thatīs nothing new and maybe a marketing way to keep veteran players interested, because nowadays games are becoming more long term so the new players are in a really bad position towards the comunnity who has been there for six months. The same is with WipEout, you have to love the game because the difficulty is so high that you need to be interested by the gameplay to keep up with it.

  9. #49
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    Good points Mickelockd. I'd add that a lot of the FPS offer only cosmetic benefits and those unlock based strictly of how much you play and is not skill based. My K/D ratio is dismal, but I've re-genned about 6 times, so I have a ton of the cosmetic upgrades. It isn't a badge of honor. Wipeout however, I use the silver ships because they require a fair degree of skill to unlock, and I'm proud of the accomplishment. I just wish there was an exclusive ship skin set for beating all the HD/Fury campaign races on elite (like a solid white ship for example with the transcendence trophy graphics on the side maybe?).

    Point is, if I saw one of those ships, I would hella want one and it would give me a reason to keep getting better. I've had random people message me asking how to get the silver ships (specifically the Fury ones), so people do notice stuff like that. As far as the community goes though, WO fans are a rare breed in general. If you have a new strategy in the major FPS titles, you hide it for the advantage. Here, we make new barrel roll spots publicly known for the greater benefit to anyone that wants to know. I'd argue this is a much more new player approachable community by far.

  10. #50
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    Well, heres is imho what would make a new WipEout game successful

    First of all, english is not my native language, so I apologize if I make any mistakes.

    I'm pretty sure we'll have a new wipeout game. Reviews about Omega are excellent, and after the #1 sales in UK, I think Sony got the message. And I'm sure sales were good not only in UK but also in Europe. For the US and Asia, I don't know but as all of you said, marketing was very poor there.

    But in the future, WipEout needs to change its formula. I have a huge respect for Psygnosis and Studio Liverpool (after all, they made, not my favorite game but my favorite thing ever) but I think they missed something. WipEout evolved in terms of design, and in terms of graphic and physic. But nothing really changed. The system remains the same: you race to unlock ships and tracks. And that's all. They added several new game modes but it did not change the progression system.

    I mean, look at the campaign in Omega... HD/ Fury was from 2008/2009 and at that time, every racing game almost had a real career system. But WipEout HD ? No. All you had to do was to unlock the gold medal for every event in a campaign that did not have any sense... Like in the 90's

    WipEout 2048 ? From 2012 and it was exactly the same. I mean come on, can't you bring me something more immersive ?

    At that time, when you compared a WipEout with a Dirt game and a F1 game and their career systems... You had one game that worked like in the 90's, that is to say zero immersion, nothing, and other games where you were in the story and had to become a champion, you had interviews with journalists etc... It was immersive. And guess what ? People love immersion. Tha't why they gave 130 millions dollars to Star Citizen. Try it and you'll see that everything in this game is made to make you feel immerged in its universe.

    WipEout nowadays is nothing but a 90's game with good graphics. Wip3out brought the cockpit view. It was the first step to become a modern game... They removed it in the next game, which was Fusion !

    And Fusion... Let's talk about Fusion. Lot of people here hate it. And I understand why. But I don't hate it. Yes the physic is bad, and the ships' designs... Some were good but some looked childish and would have fit better in F-Zero rather than WipEout.

    But if my memories are correct, it was the most successful WipEout in terms of sales.

    Why ? Well first of all it was the easiest because of its physic. Everybody could play Fusion and finish the game. Contrary to the older games or the next like Pure etc.

    But there is also something else: It was the most immersive WipEout ever (despite the lack of cockpit view)

    A really badass animation before the start of each race, the pilots greeting the crowd, animation of the pilot being rescued after the destruction of its ship, the licence you had to obtain to be allowed to use superweapons, 16 ships in race (not just 8...), you could choose your pilot... Like in the 1st WipEout btw, Money system, as in Gran Turismo to upgrade you ship...

    Fusion was, and is still, the most modern game of the franchise.

    But, everyone complained about Fusion so Studio Liverpool remade a 90's game with Pure. All they had to do was to change the ships and physic to make it more WipEoutish, but no, they just removed everything from Fusion, even the good things.

    But hey, we were already in 2005 back then... It was already a time were almost every racing game had a modern progression system, careers, customization etc...

    The first career mode of an F1 game ? F1 05 ! Made by Studio Liverpool... Why didn't they take ideas from their F1 games ?!

    And I won't talk about Pulse...

    WipEout Pure, Pulse, Hd, 2048 and Omega are just for die hard WipEout fans like us. Only beacause we love the designs and the gameplay. But don't expect new players to love it. They bought Omega because it was 2 games (not 3, Fury is just an extension of 4 tracks... Already existing in previous games) for only 35 dollars/euro... And I'm pretty sure lot of them will play it 2 weeks and never touch it again because of how hard it is for them. And I won't talk about online, where newbies are just exterminated by veterans.


    So Wipeout has to change. It is supposed to be the simulation of the AG Racing league for Christ's sake ! So be it !

    First of all it needs to offer different gameplays for the players. Every racing game does it. You know, you can change the driving setting to make it either realistic or arcade. The last Dirt game even asks you what style of game you want: Gamer or simulation

    So WipEout has to do the same: players should be able to choose between arcade physic (like Fusion) or pro physic (like the one we have now or even what we had on the PSone. Don't tell me it's too hard, you have two different physics available in BallisticNG, made by an amateur dev )

    This choice of gameplay would allow everyone to enjoy the game.

    Then we need a real and logical career mode. For this just look at what Grid games did, and what Dirt and F1 games are doing now.

    Create you character, and start from nothing to become the AG champion.

    Imagine:

    You start the career mode. Feisar hires you as their second pilot. As you become better, you then becomes their first pilot. Because of your skills, Auricom calls you: "hey, you are a promising pilot. We have a practise session next week. Come and if you are good enough we'll hire you for the next season"

    You would have an agent, you would have interviews like now in F1 games, you could set up your ship in the paddock with your engineer...

    And when I say a logical career, I'm talking about the different game modes. Their should be a reason for each game mode. For example, today in F1 with have qualifying sessions to decide who will start from the 1st position. Why wouldn't we have a Zone session before each race to decide who will take the pole position ? The pilot who achieved the highest score in Zone would be first etc...

    That's my ideas for a real career mode. Then we need to add more immersion so: Animations between pilots to show their rivalry, a starting animation on the grid like in Fusion, the same for the rescue ship etc...


    We need also more than 8 ships racing... We have 12 teams in HD... they should have 2 ships per team... So it would make 24 ships. I don't think their should be more, but we should have between 16 and 24 ships in race.

    Add an upgrading system. Maybe not cosmetic, but at least to improve speed, agility etc...

    And to finish the weapon system needs to change.

    I have always been okay with it because I'm not an online guy. But with omega I decided to change this.

    If you are good enough you can win against elite AI even if you absorb all the weapons. But when against a good player it is no longer the case, you need to take advantage of the weapons... When the good player in question has 5 turbos during the race when all you get are mines or shield, you just want to turn the TV off and leave.

    Clean races are not a good solution, because as it was said by some of you, there are no damages in WipEout (BTW, this idea from fusion was also good. We should have a shield and damages. No damages when the shield is full, but when empty... Well, this is where the fun begins... at 750 km/h)

    So my idea is: no more random weapons.

    At the start of each race you would begin with 10 rockets, 5 missiles, 10 mines, 1 bomb, 1 quake, 1 plasma, 3 turbos and 2 shields.

    There still would be weapon pads which would activate the weapons. But you would have the right to chose what weapon you want. And for example once you have used your 3 turbos, you won't be able to have turbos until the end of the race.

    So races wouldn't be about luck but strategy.

    And I think, here we would have a fair game for competition.

    And...This is all I have to say.

    Of course don't forget a real cockpit view and the VR (not a VR exclusive game, but it should work with it, especially for the cockpit view) and you'll have a successful WipEout, if not the most successful WipEout ever.

    Hope my English wasn't too bad guys

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