Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 76

Thread: What would it take to make a NEW Wipeout ? -Estimate from those who know.

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Timezone
    GMT + 10
    PSN ID
    blackwiggle
    Posts
    3,863

    Default What would it take to make a NEW Wipeout ? -Estimate from those who know.

    This subject has been talked about for ages when there was nothing else to talk about by we long term members.

    Now there is a new interest again, both , most importantly from the fans, and secondly from Sony.

    If it wasn't for the fans Sony wouldn't have made the Omega Pack, there would be no point if nobody was interested, fact, and if no interest, it equals no $$ for Sony, so it wouldn't have got the go ahead.....well more on that later.

    A Remaster is one thing, making a new Wipeout is another.

    We have two predicaments happening here, the first is the Wipeout is hugely popular in EU but not in the USA......now why is that?
    I don't want to come across as disparaging, but Sony USA 'Marketing' are corporate robots than run purely on figures given to them, there is no free thinking, it's toe the corporate line or you not part of the team...your out.

    So how has Sony marketing in the USA tackled the Omega Pack ?

    It's done what it has always done, gone back to figures, Historical sales figures for the various wipeout games in the USA.........there is a fatal flaw in doing this, and it has perpetuated for years, and is the reason why wipeout hasn't sold in the USA for years.

    Lets have a look at what has happened over the years to Wipeout in the USA over the years.

    The last Good sales figures for a wipeout game in the USA were for Wipeout FUSION [Ironically the Orphan of the wipeout series], it was also the last FULL CONSOLE VERSION of a wipeout game, available to be bought as a disc version, seen on a shelf, and bought at a shop.....that was 17 years ago.

    The PSP came out, sold reasonably well, and wipeout PURE got a reasonable take up, the DLC for it was free, all was good.....but it wasn't a full console release.....so you lost those that like to play on a big screen.
    Ditto Wipeout PULSE.....sales had dropped off by then, PSP's had plateaued sales wise, so the USA decided it wasn't worth bothering releasing the DLC for PULSE....further alienation of the full console version WO players, and now those that like the PSP versions, but denied the DLC on a sales whim.

    VITA arrives...Sony thinks, hell we don't have a release title that shows off all the things we want about the VITA....Who do we call?

    Those at SL that hadn't yet had their termination notices typed up, and were still considered useful, were quickly given a brief, and in a false sense of confidence, so they built WO 2048 for the VITA.

    Another handheld WO, [NO interest for fans of the full console version] ....lacked Racebox = Horrible + had major glitches, and even then you could lose all your game progress...so dire really.

    SO...Dah Ta De Dah !!!

    The Omega Pack is announced...YES!!!! x 1000 are made ....Finally...are post made at this forum.

    I imagine the situation at Sony USA PR marketing was diametrically opposite ..... What's this Omega Pack they want us to sell and promote....I'll look it up in History....OMG it has a horrible failure rate in the USA.....we can't budget for that....we'll just give it token exposure and see how it goes.

    Not realizing that there is a frozen zombie army of full console wipeout players that have been waiting for the AWAKEN call to come.....no call, no come.

    NOW...if I know this, and SL people knew this, and it's been posted about enought times over the years at this forum.....WHY didn't somebody from Sony XDEV [who overseered the project] GO OVER to the USA, and kick some butt to sell this game.

    I've been online on several different occasions, at various time checking on the online rooms open, and when I hit the USA ones....it's dismal.....I wonder why?

    From a EX SL person I have been told that he estimates that it would cost Sony at least USA$10 million and take 18 months to make a NEW Wipeout....from the amount of players I see online ATM, a week into a new release, I can't see Sony giving the OK for that.

    Sorry, but I'd love to see it otherwise, but I'm a realist .....unless more people are playing this game, no new ones will be made
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 10th June 2017 at 01:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    aerobie2
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Do the buying and playing habits of anyone outside of EU and USA have any impact here? Can't us Canadians, for one, help?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Washington, USA
    PSN ID
    Hybrid_Divide
    Posts
    876

    Default

    I could not agree more with this. If Sony do not promote the games here, they won't sell.

    People tend to like the games if they actually see them. But no.

    Alas, I've been repeating myself all over the forums here about this lately.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Southington, CT
    Timezone
    GMT -5
    PSN ID
    TheFrostE
    Posts
    788

    Default

    Agreed, as much as Wipeout was a big part of my life for a while, it's time to let it go. Give something else the throne (which I think has already been taken imho). It's huge with its community and many of the people here are great but realistically, they are going to milk Omega for all its worth now and it still won't justify a new one for them. It's not what it used to be and a remaster doesn't help it. To be a success again, the only way I see it is if they build one from the ground up again and do more worldwide advertisement. It's tired , and Wipeout is slowing turning into a "die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" situation. Most people here obviously don't want to hear it, and I'm sure fox will come through and laugh at the dooms ayers but it is what it is, it's our opinion, and a fairly realistic one at that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Timezone
    GMT + 10
    PSN ID
    blackwiggle
    Posts
    3,863

    Default

    The other problem that has become a recent phenomenon , and this is not just with the Omega Pack, is that instead of publishers giving a advanced copy of a game to known and respected game reviewer or review magazine / site, they are doing the exact opposite, and refusing to give copies to them, and are instead giving advance copies to YouTube 'influence-rs', who are way less than objective on telling it how it is, and rarely if ever mention anything negative about a game.

    I personally never watch any of these so called 'reviews' for that very same reason.....your just asking for repeat 'No Man's Sky' situations, where the whole gaming community is left feeling ripped off, and pissed off at being duped.
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 10th June 2017 at 07:50 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Paris/Hobart
    Posts
    427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFrostE View Post
    Agreed, as much as Wipeout was a big part of my life for a while, it's time to let it go. Give something else the throne (which I think has already been taken imho). It's huge with its community and many of the people here are great but realistically, they are going to milk Omega for all its worth now and it still won't justify a new one for them. It's not what it used to be and a remaster doesn't help it. To be a success again, the only way I see it is if they build one from the ground up again and do more worldwide advertisement. It's tired , and Wipeout is slowing turning into a "die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" situation. Most people here obviously don't want to hear it, and I'm sure fox will come through and laugh at the dooms ayers but it is what it is, it's our opinion, and a fairly realistic one at that.
    I think you're being overly negative, not realistic. I have already witnessed an incredible enthusiasm for WOOC from non-fans, just people enjoying a new cool PlayStation title from a franchise they hardly know about. So there is potential for a new game as long as it stays like this. American market or not.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Timezone
    GMT + 10
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Just out of interest can you choose which servers (ie Europe or US) to search for? Everytime I've gone online there are only one or two races. Im thinking I must be searching under the US servers?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Spain
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    Mickelockd
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I feel the same as you... since I was a child this saga was one of the first I had the possibility to play with, even when studio Liverpool shut down I felt like WipEout will never come back, but now I feel like Sony did this in purpose to get money and not giving back the memories, you can see my point giving all those beauty press kits with floating ships... So I agreed with you, Itīs not fair but at least those true fans maintain a good community, and yes Iīm new to the forum but not at the game, Ive been playing themī saga since the release of WipEout 3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In my fair opinion of FPS shooters thatīs nothing new and maybe a marketing way to keep veteran players interested, because nowadays games are becoming more long term so the new players are in a really bad position towards the comunnity who has been there for six months. The same is with WipEout, you have to love the game because the difficulty is so high that you need to be interested by the gameplay to keep up with it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Timezone
    GMT -6
    PSN ID
    mannjon
    Posts
    869

    Default

    Good points Mickelockd. I'd add that a lot of the FPS offer only cosmetic benefits and those unlock based strictly of how much you play and is not skill based. My K/D ratio is dismal, but I've re-genned about 6 times, so I have a ton of the cosmetic upgrades. It isn't a badge of honor. Wipeout however, I use the silver ships because they require a fair degree of skill to unlock, and I'm proud of the accomplishment. I just wish there was an exclusive ship skin set for beating all the HD/Fury campaign races on elite (like a solid white ship for example with the transcendence trophy graphics on the side maybe?).

    Point is, if I saw one of those ships, I would hella want one and it would give me a reason to keep getting better. I've had random people message me asking how to get the silver ships (specifically the Fury ones), so people do notice stuff like that. As far as the community goes though, WO fans are a rare breed in general. If you have a new strategy in the major FPS titles, you hide it for the advantage. Here, we make new barrel roll spots publicly known for the greater benefit to anyone that wants to know. I'd argue this is a much more new player approachable community by far.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    France
    Timezone
    GMT + 1
    PSN ID
    wipe64
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Well, heres is imho what would make a new WipEout game successful

    First of all, english is not my native language, so I apologize if I make any mistakes.

    I'm pretty sure we'll have a new wipeout game. Reviews about Omega are excellent, and after the #1 sales in UK, I think Sony got the message. And I'm sure sales were good not only in UK but also in Europe. For the US and Asia, I don't know but as all of you said, marketing was very poor there.

    But in the future, WipEout needs to change its formula. I have a huge respect for Psygnosis and Studio Liverpool (after all, they made, not my favorite game but my favorite thing ever) but I think they missed something. WipEout evolved in terms of design, and in terms of graphic and physic. But nothing really changed. The system remains the same: you race to unlock ships and tracks. And that's all. They added several new game modes but it did not change the progression system.

    I mean, look at the campaign in Omega... HD/ Fury was from 2008/2009 and at that time, every racing game almost had a real career system. But WipEout HD ? No. All you had to do was to unlock the gold medal for every event in a campaign that did not have any sense... Like in the 90's

    WipEout 2048 ? From 2012 and it was exactly the same. I mean come on, can't you bring me something more immersive ?

    At that time, when you compared a WipEout with a Dirt game and a F1 game and their career systems... You had one game that worked like in the 90's, that is to say zero immersion, nothing, and other games where you were in the story and had to become a champion, you had interviews with journalists etc... It was immersive. And guess what ? People love immersion. Tha't why they gave 130 millions dollars to Star Citizen. Try it and you'll see that everything in this game is made to make you feel immerged in its universe.

    WipEout nowadays is nothing but a 90's game with good graphics. Wip3out brought the cockpit view. It was the first step to become a modern game... They removed it in the next game, which was Fusion !

    And Fusion... Let's talk about Fusion. Lot of people here hate it. And I understand why. But I don't hate it. Yes the physic is bad, and the ships' designs... Some were good but some looked childish and would have fit better in F-Zero rather than WipEout.

    But if my memories are correct, it was the most successful WipEout in terms of sales.

    Why ? Well first of all it was the easiest because of its physic. Everybody could play Fusion and finish the game. Contrary to the older games or the next like Pure etc.

    But there is also something else: It was the most immersive WipEout ever (despite the lack of cockpit view)

    A really badass animation before the start of each race, the pilots greeting the crowd, animation of the pilot being rescued after the destruction of its ship, the licence you had to obtain to be allowed to use superweapons, 16 ships in race (not just 8...), you could choose your pilot... Like in the 1st WipEout btw, Money system, as in Gran Turismo to upgrade you ship...

    Fusion was, and is still, the most modern game of the franchise.

    But, everyone complained about Fusion so Studio Liverpool remade a 90's game with Pure. All they had to do was to change the ships and physic to make it more WipEoutish, but no, they just removed everything from Fusion, even the good things.

    But hey, we were already in 2005 back then... It was already a time were almost every racing game had a modern progression system, careers, customization etc...

    The first career mode of an F1 game ? F1 05 ! Made by Studio Liverpool... Why didn't they take ideas from their F1 games ?!

    And I won't talk about Pulse...

    WipEout Pure, Pulse, Hd, 2048 and Omega are just for die hard WipEout fans like us. Only beacause we love the designs and the gameplay. But don't expect new players to love it. They bought Omega because it was 2 games (not 3, Fury is just an extension of 4 tracks... Already existing in previous games) for only 35 dollars/euro... And I'm pretty sure lot of them will play it 2 weeks and never touch it again because of how hard it is for them. And I won't talk about online, where newbies are just exterminated by veterans.


    So Wipeout has to change. It is supposed to be the simulation of the AG Racing league for Christ's sake ! So be it !

    First of all it needs to offer different gameplays for the players. Every racing game does it. You know, you can change the driving setting to make it either realistic or arcade. The last Dirt game even asks you what style of game you want: Gamer or simulation

    So WipEout has to do the same: players should be able to choose between arcade physic (like Fusion) or pro physic (like the one we have now or even what we had on the PSone. Don't tell me it's too hard, you have two different physics available in BallisticNG, made by an amateur dev )

    This choice of gameplay would allow everyone to enjoy the game.

    Then we need a real and logical career mode. For this just look at what Grid games did, and what Dirt and F1 games are doing now.

    Create you character, and start from nothing to become the AG champion.

    Imagine:

    You start the career mode. Feisar hires you as their second pilot. As you become better, you then becomes their first pilot. Because of your skills, Auricom calls you: "hey, you are a promising pilot. We have a practise session next week. Come and if you are good enough we'll hire you for the next season"

    You would have an agent, you would have interviews like now in F1 games, you could set up your ship in the paddock with your engineer...

    And when I say a logical career, I'm talking about the different game modes. Their should be a reason for each game mode. For example, today in F1 with have qualifying sessions to decide who will start from the 1st position. Why wouldn't we have a Zone session before each race to decide who will take the pole position ? The pilot who achieved the highest score in Zone would be first etc...

    That's my ideas for a real career mode. Then we need to add more immersion so: Animations between pilots to show their rivalry, a starting animation on the grid like in Fusion, the same for the rescue ship etc...


    We need also more than 8 ships racing... We have 12 teams in HD... they should have 2 ships per team... So it would make 24 ships. I don't think their should be more, but we should have between 16 and 24 ships in race.

    Add an upgrading system. Maybe not cosmetic, but at least to improve speed, agility etc...

    And to finish the weapon system needs to change.

    I have always been okay with it because I'm not an online guy. But with omega I decided to change this.

    If you are good enough you can win against elite AI even if you absorb all the weapons. But when against a good player it is no longer the case, you need to take advantage of the weapons... When the good player in question has 5 turbos during the race when all you get are mines or shield, you just want to turn the TV off and leave.

    Clean races are not a good solution, because as it was said by some of you, there are no damages in WipEout (BTW, this idea from fusion was also good. We should have a shield and damages. No damages when the shield is full, but when empty... Well, this is where the fun begins... at 750 km/h)

    So my idea is: no more random weapons.

    At the start of each race you would begin with 10 rockets, 5 missiles, 10 mines, 1 bomb, 1 quake, 1 plasma, 3 turbos and 2 shields.

    There still would be weapon pads which would activate the weapons. But you would have the right to chose what weapon you want. And for example once you have used your 3 turbos, you won't be able to have turbos until the end of the race.

    So races wouldn't be about luck but strategy.

    And I think, here we would have a fair game for competition.

    And...This is all I have to say.

    Of course don't forget a real cockpit view and the VR (not a VR exclusive game, but it should work with it, especially for the cockpit view) and you'll have a successful WipEout, if not the most successful WipEout ever.

    Hope my English wasn't too bad guys

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •