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Thread: HELP!!! - all forum members needed !!

  1. #11
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    It was never a ASKED for you to test anything with FF....please HIGHLIGHT ANYTHING IN ANY OF THE POSTS ABOVE that you can prove that !!!!

    All was asked, was to the forum generally

    You can't .... So shut the Fu() up !
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 22nd November 2016 at 09:50 AM.

  2. #12
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    From what I have seen of the game, the FF team should ask this community about the physics of the game. They feel off, and not enjoyable. Even though it doesn't have to be wipeout exactly, there are many games that just have a better feel regarding airbrakes and sliding, games such as episode 1 racer, Quantum Redshift, powerdrome, even MACH and Ngen racing have nice physics. Jet moto (despite crap Framerate) and Trickstyle also have good physics models that are wipeout like, but not wipeout.
    Wipeout fans I would say like futuristic racers in general, so if the game is not getting a lot of love, I would say to ask us about the game as a whole, and what is good about it, and what needs to be improved. I'm sure there would be many responses to this question

    Regarding the original question, a tutorial for taking turns at full speed would have been a very welcome thing in the wipeout games. Take a turn, then repeat process over and over. Perhaps have a timer that shows your time over that short distance so you can figure out the fastest technique by Trial and error
    Last edited by JABBERJAW; 22nd November 2016 at 06:00 PM.

  3. #13
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    Well, if the devs want more replies and feedback maybe they should stop with their TPP and work with all the early access owners.

    For the game itself the only thing they need to work on for the moment is the physic. They shouldn't even try to build new tracks as long as they don't have the physic they want (we want). They said they wanted 2097 like physic... Well just do it. Give us the exact same physic in the next build. Then we will tell you what you have to fix/ improve (because it was not perfect, collision bugs, too bouncy etc) and then build new tracks according to the physic you have !

    For the garage thing... Well I don't see how it will affect the physic. You are not building you own ship. In the Formula One games you set up your car as you want it to be. But it still remains a Formula One, you don't get the physic of a Nascar car or a truck. Your is car going a little bit faster but turns a little bit less... And I hope it will be the same in FF. Minor adjustments to fit your drive-style and the track you're on, so it wouldn't impact the physic. But I hope the garage will be more into esthetic changes.

    I have a lot more to say, but I've already said it over and over again and it about the environments etc... Focus on the physic guys !

    And yes, I do agree with other members on this thread, I still don't get how these so-called ex wipeout dev can't figure out how to make an AG-Racing game, when a single guy figured it out with BallisticNG, even if, of course, it is far from perfect but at least it is closer to WipEout than FF...

  4. #14
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    Proximity alerts - I find this feature in WO to be a mixed bag, my biggest gripe is that I don't necessarily care about the weapon that is being used against me, instead I'm concerned about where it is coming from on the track in relation to my current position. While HD/Fury does have that mini indicator under the shield gauge that gives a rough approximation of the weapons location relevant to the ship, the problem is....well....its tiny. If they wish to implement this idea to FF (or if they have already) then I want it to be obvious, not subtle like WO. Perhaps have like a corner/side of the HUD light up faintly with a thin redline on the border of the TV screen, to me that would be much more obvious and therefore useful.

    Tutorial - Tough one, I'd personally recommend a structure to the tutorial used in FAST Racing League from the nintendo wii where it is given as the "qualification" option. Its compulsory to do before starting the other game modes which may put some people off, but the way shin'en did it makes the tutorial quick, easy to learn and straight to the point while ensuring everyone tries it. This could be adapted to FF but obviously tailored to that game specifically gameplay wise.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM3moHPXpNo

    I personally have not tried the game so I cannot make any comments from experience about the physics or handling. If I can put my opinion here though then I would tell R8 to make their own physics model that is different to WO and advise against the 2097 physics design. I find the 2097 physics to be somewhat horrid and makes that game a chore to play and as such i've never liked it nor the earlier WO's (my opinion so feel free to disagree). I honestly find simpler physics to be more enjoyable, the overwhelming realistic physics of WO has always been a very mixed bag to me as it introduces so many variables to the gameplay that can affect your race that consistency is almost impossible, while that does mean no two races are the same. But in reality most people are concerned about winning rather than how the game feels, take F-zero for example, the ships aren't floaty, but back in the day it was a bigger franchise because the gameplay was spot on.

    Also can we all look at the wider picture here, BallisticNG may have physics closer to WO because it was made by one person who had one clear goal of emulating WO as much as possible and nobody could change that except for suggesting improvements. However R8 is a team wanting to make something different in the footsteps of WO. As such every single developer will have their own ideas about the physics structure which can lead to confliction about which is better, some will like it, others not so much. Therefore they need to create something that is balanced to satisfy everyone at the bare minimum level. You can't just go disregarding them with a "lack of direction about the physics model" without being in their shoes and what they need to do to make everyone happy because that is being somewhat arrogant.

    I feel like I'm going off on my own tangent so I'll wrap up now, all I'm trying to say is that R8 should have FF feel the way that satisfies both them and the fans that is different to WO altogether. This is FF, not WO, so why should it have to follow the latter's physics model? Why not let them create something new and then take their time figuring out what works best?
    The gameplay should be at the top of R8's concerns right now in my eyes, yes the physics affects gameplay but that can be changed later, the core gameplay mechanics can't once they are set. Get that spot on now and adapt the handling model to it. I won't delve into attracting players back to the game as that is not my area of expertise.

    Again, just my opinion, you can disagree with me, but that is my two cents on it.

  5. #15
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    I'd argue physics is one of the core gameplay elements, along with game logic itself. You'll base your entire game on these.

  6. #16
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    I agree that the physics feel a bit off (referring to the 20160819 steam update) and they keep changing it all the time. If they could just spend some time to nail down the physics/upgrading system before moving on to anything else, then we'll have a solid game that also looks good.
    Last edited by TheConzio; 29th November 2016 at 03:44 AM.

  7. #17
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    1) Many racing games have a Mini-Map function, something that WipE'out'' has always lacked. I toyed with the idea in the past, but other people said it wouldn't be a great idea. I guess it wouldn't hurt to experiment, and make it optional.

    2) I am not really sure how to do this with a Racing Game, but the way the Metroid games and Mega Man games teach players is pretty genius.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcrdJD8whfE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wLMW4Y6zho
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

    All of these games try to teach the player how to play without said player even realizing it, and they do a pretty damn good job. If I recall correctly, then the videos I linked will explain why.

    Even if you don't find a way to do that too well, you could probably have a Career Mode that serves as a cross between WipEout Pulse's /HD's campaign, and Gran Turismo's career mode. In fact, if you want to add just a little extra polish, you could have fluff about the universe you're racing in unfold as the player progresses, as well as have little challenges so that even the more skilled players will keep coming back for more.

    3) The art direction; it has been a while since I watched a video of this game, but the last time I did... everything was brown, silver and grey. And dirty. I don't want that in a racing game (except possibly a small amount of dirtiness), I want vibrant and diverse colors! I want shiny things to accent the not-so-shiny things.

    I would rather have epileptic seizures than depressing and uninspired visuals with a grey/green/brown tint-filter on everything. It's why people keep trying to get their hands on the WipEout HD press-kits, because it's Zone Mode looked freaking awesome.
    Last edited by Amaroq Dricaldari; 28th November 2016 at 07:02 PM.

  8. #18
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    Now that I've joined the TPP, I'm impressed with the progress that they've made with the handling/physics in their latest build. Apart from the camera-sway thing like in the older Wipeouts, I think they're going for their own style of handling (which is a good thing IMO). You have to build up speed with the speed pads rather than being at top speed from the get-go (watch from 1:24 to see what I mean).



    Quote Originally Posted by Amaroq Dricaldari View Post
    The art direction; it has been a while since I watched a video of this game, but the last time I did... everything was brown, silver and grey. And dirty. I don't want that in a racing game (except possibly a small amount of dirtiness), I want vibrant and diverse colors! I want shiny things to accent the not-so-shiny things..
    There have been improvements to that as well, but I don't think their aim is to make a fully colourful and always-happy game like Wipeout HD. Maybe the third track in the video will most resemble what you're looking for

  9. #19
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    I am not looking for always happy, I am looking for not-depressing. Racing games aren't supposed to look depressing.
    And again, the tint-filter. Why are so many modern games abusing Color Correction? (By Inari's tail, are art designers secretly being replaced with lizards!?)

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConzio View Post
    Now that I've joined the TPP, I'm impressed with the progress that they've made with the handling/physics in their latest build. Apart from the camera-sway thing like in the older Wipeouts, I think they're going for their own style of handling (which is a good thing IMO). You have to build up speed with the speed pads rather than being at top speed from the get-go (watch from 1:24 to see what I mean).

    Now, the game starts to look a bit more like W2097. Also, nice idea with the mechanic of speed buildup from speedpads. Not everything must be exactly as in the old Wipeouts, after all.

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