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Thread: HELP!!! - all forum members needed !!

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  1. #1
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    Default HELP!!! - all forum members needed !!

    Sorry for the dramatic plea, but the feedback / response R8 is getting from it's current participants in Formula Fusions TPP is slack to say the least......, it's pathetic to be honest.
    A Lot of that comes from starting a forum, having people post, and nobody answer... the biggest WTF situation ever.

    So, I thought I'd ask the people that do really care about this game...You people reading this NOW, long term AG racers ....WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM THIS GAME?

    Topics I have brought up at the TPP froum.

    I request all forum members that have finished at least 3 of the 8 Wipeout titles, to voice their opinions regarding the topics below - please answer in the same order as questions asked.
    R8 Games NEED to KNOW this stuff......they are NOT getting the feedback they need, quickly enough.
    Doesn't matter how good you are/ were at any Wipeout game..... but voice what you ALWAYS THOUGHT....IF they had only done that!...that's what's wanted/ needed.....think AHEAD of what is POSSIBLE with the power of a PS4 / huge PC

    1] Proximity alert - Formula Fusion doesn't have one currently in any build - any plans for one? ....I prefer WOHD's simple one....I could imagine the ability to have a bar with, Friend / Foe color intensity shown if online team event were to happen as planned, friend could be Blue, Foe Red.
    Formula Fusion Online plans is to have TEAM EVENT's.....Especially on STEAM.....now you know why I' questioning about this.
    There are other reasons, but depending on how the build goes, they might not be relevent.

    2] Tutorials - How many friends, acquaintances, have you met, that didn't grasp how to play Wipeout ?, or found it's learning curve too high to master, so they gave up ?
    Plenty if your experience is similar to mine.
    How would you teach somebody Formula Fusion? [Or Wipeout for that matter] What do you think is the biggest hurdle to somebody understanding how to become a competent AG Pilot ?...personally I think it's Air Brakes/steering combo...and getting it right.

    So, what do YOU, the forum members suggest, would make a great tutorial to teach this....how should it be done to be easily understood?

    I'll leave it at those two questions at the moment.

    Please reply !

  2. #2
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    1] To be completely honest with you I never actively noticed/cared for this feature in Wipeout, but given the team events I think what you're suggesting is a good idea, although instead of intensity of friend/foe, just make either one indicator for the nearest ship, color coded as friend/foe, or several small arrows color coded as friend/foe for the nearest like 3,4 ships.

    2] This is a hard one. From personal experience, a good bunch of people will just ignore the tutorials unless it's forced onto them, in which case they'll pay little attention to the instructions. I used to think in-race tutorials were a good thing. Turns out people get seriously confused, so I now think the Ace Combat 5 approach is better: specific scenarios where a game mechanic (moving, braking, turning, overtaking, using items, etc) is needed, and as you progress through the tutorial scenarios, they'll stack more of your knowledge so far, until the last tutorial scenario that puts everything into play, in this case it could be a whole race.
    Last edited by Xpand; 21st November 2016 at 01:12 PM.

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    To be completely honest here, the other two fangames had clear goals and smart devs and didn't need to be told how to make their own game... Id have expected that devs of a ps4 AAA title like FF would actually know what they're doing (apparently i am mistaken)

    Tbh the fact is not many people really care about FF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadofmondays View Post
    To be completely honest here, the other two fangames had clear goals and smart devs and didn't need to be told how to make their own game... Id have expected that devs of a ps4 AAA title like FF would actually know what they're doing (apparently i am mistaken)

    I kind of have to agree with this unfortunately, they seem to lack a proper game designer who knows what they actually want to achieve (how many times has the physics been overhauled???), I can understand that you want feedback from testers, but that feedback shouldn't be used for coming up with the game mechanics, only for iterating on them

    FF Designer guy, if you are reading this, get a whiteboard in the studio, gather the team and write down where you want to go with this game and LISTEN to your team, what they have to input, be objective and acceptive of critique, nobody's perfect

  5. #5
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    I played through W2097, W3, WF and WHD/F.

    1] I never payed attention to this indicator. I would like to see an optional small rear-view window on the top instead, like in Gran Turismo, so you may look backwards without losing view of what is in front of you.

    2] I have no idea how other people approach tutorials. I prefer when there is a separate training mode/level available that shows all of the basic mechanics in specifically designed environment. Also, I am a fan of Practice mode (in BNG) that allows you to just fly for as long as you like. If there is Practice in Formula Fusion, then I have a suggestion: make an option to set a loop on the track, so you can fly through this section as many times as you need without needing to make a whole lap to approach it again. Should be very useful when learning hard corners or such without wasting time on these portions of the track that you already mastered.
    Last edited by shotfan; 21st November 2016 at 09:29 PM.

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    I can't play FF at the moment (i need a powerful pc) but i will play it for sure in the future.

    1 - i like the one from HD
    2- Personally I really like the lack of tutorials in wipeout games..it is so characteristic and it makes the game so arcade! I prefer the tips during loading screens and the possibility to practice freely. If developers want a tutorial, i hope it will be divided in sections (like F1 2013)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shotfan View Post
    make an option to set a loop on the track, so you can fly through this section as many times as you need without needing to make a whole lap to approach it again. Should be very useful when learning hard corners or such without wasting time on these portions of the track that you already mastered.
    I completely agree with this! It was missing in wipeout.
    Last edited by santuz_rocks; 21st November 2016 at 09:37 PM.

  7. #7
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    Formula Fusion does have a practice mode.

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    To be honest I think there are bigger issues with Formula Fusion that should be addressed before asking those two questions, such as why the partipants arn't wanting to engage as much as they apparently should want to be. Because to me that would indicate a problem with the game, not the people providing feedback. Now I havn't played Formula Fusion but I know enough from seeing it being played and seeing the opinions of other people and I think questions about proximity alerts and how to teach players how to play the game is the last thing that should be of concern right now. Last time I checked on Formula Fusion the physics still seemed pretty rigid and unsatisfying and the track designs looked just as boring and slim. As someone who has fell into this myself and is currently in the process of remaking all the tracks for BallisticNG because I messed up with track design the first time around, I can sort of get an idea of why Formula Fusion isn't getting the engagement R8 would want. It looks and sounds like the game isn't very fun to play which would explain the subpar feedback from players, simply because they don't want to play the game to begin with.

    It should also be said that it's concering that this sort of plea for help needed to happen to begin with. With R8 being this supposed team of ex Wipeout developers, I'd want to believe they'd know a bit about how they'd want to go about making an AG racer that is even just a bit similar to Wipeout. I understand and fully support involving a community in a games development, but directly asking the players how you should make the game doesn't really show that there's any plan or structure to the development. The problem I'm seeing with Formula Fusion right now though is that the development is more about content then it is setting up the platform to host that content. Don't get me wrong the game looks absoluetely incredible from a visual standpoint, but from what I've seen and heared it flops from a gameplay standpoint. Readability seems to be a key issue too, I recently saw JamieTheDs livestream of the game and he was having a hard time interpreting what different elements on the HUD were supposed to be showing.

    If I'm being completely honest I think it would be best if R8 went back to the drawing board a bit and stop trying to market it as the second coming of Wipeout, or at least stop getting the community hyped up enough to perpetuate that. It's clearly inspired in many areas by Wipeout, but from a gameplay aspect it's not really. I can see the potential in the physics system too but there doesn't seem to be any clear strive to how the ships should handle. Hovering vehicles + airbrakes doesn't automatically equal Wipeout. Wipeout is about precision, flow and rhythm. Ships are floaty but in a very artifical and controllable way, something I'ved noticed a lot of Wipeout inspired games havn't quite understood. One update the game apparently has stiff handling then the next it's really floaty. This sort of change while using the same track designs too, it can't work out like that because the track design needs to compliment the physics. If you're still developing the vehicle handling while you've already got complete tracks then there's going to be major problems in the future. My understanding of the dramatic handling differences between updates is that the dev team likely have something they want to do in mind but then they are also trying to please the people pleaing for Wipeout 2097 physics.

    I got a bit off topic but I think it's important that this is said, I really want to see Formula Fusion evolve into something amazing but it doesn't look like it's going to happen with the way it's going at the moment, in my opinion anyway.

  9. #9
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    Well firstly I am only on the Test Pilot Program, not part of R8, my plea was more to grab peoples attention at this forum more than anything else, as since there is little other action other sections of this forum.

    Secondly I have seen many a post at this forum over my 10 years of being a member that have rued the fact that Wipeout never had any real tutorials for it, and many have held the thought that if it had, it wouldn't have had so many people put it in the "Too Hard Bin", that's why I started this post........ I find it rather ironic that when I ask for suggestions to remedy this situation for Forumula Fusion, from the people who should know best what is needed, I get the responses above....... well maybe not quite so ironic considering that the negative comments are coming from people who are making their own versions of a AG racer.

    As for the lack of feedback at the R8 forum, well when the forum first opened there was a flurry of posts, but little feedback, then R8 had a massive restructure, and lost it's forum admin, by the time they had restructured and got a new admin, the forum was a ghost town....it has periods when it get a lot of posts, but I will admit, there doesn't seem to be much input except from a few..... S&*T happens...... there is still the Wipeoutzone after all.

    The HUD was changed in the last build, a week ago, it's now very easy to read, and doesn't take up much screen space, or interfere with you being able to see what's going on around you...the 3 basic things any HUD needs to do.

    As for tracks, well there are the 4 main nearly completed ones, and around another 10+ at least in the works..... all will be playable in reverse and Day/Night....with the possibility of changeable weather as well...... as for Boring.......well if I race a boring track, you can believe me, I'm no shrinking Violet, and let them know when I find something boring, or doesn't seem to work, or make sense and why it doesn't .....My current rant is the existence of the HULK's FART at the start/ finish line [Green opaque cloud on the track], and when is it going to be gone

    As for the handling, and why it keeps changing.
    The first builds were to get a general feeling for the craft at the 3 different speed classes, the latter builds were to finesse this so they worked on the 4 main tracks, these latter builds have been concentrating on getting the Middle Ground craft, spot on, plus they have just added another change in the physics due to adding jumps on some of the tracks.....think of it as you will, in the way R8 are going about this, but you need to remember to factor in this before you go saying that they are doing it wrong, or should scrap the game and start again.....unlike Wipeout, Formula Fusion will have a GARAGE, where craft upgrades can be made in Speed, Handling, Braking, Shield, Offensive & Defensive.

    So basically all a player will have to do is pick a basic craft they are comfortable enough with to win enough races, then upgrade it to their handling preferences..... None of the problems of having to switch to different craft for specific tracks, and still not having a craft that is exactly how you would like it, like we have been putting up with for years with Wipeout games......... the idea for Formula Fusion is to have presets of particular favorite craft configurations ready to load.

    I don't see how anybody couldn't see that as anything other than a step forward, for AG Racing games generally.
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 22nd November 2016 at 05:50 AM.

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