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Thread: Feedback thread - v0.0.4

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackwiggle View Post
    ElHabib....I know you work in the industry, and know some of the guys...please, help them help themselves before it's too late.
    I'm an artist, not a coder. All I could do in regards of gameplay is tell them what I think feels right and what doesn't - but then why would they listen to me?
    What I don't quite get is that they clearly stated they want to recreate the wipEout feel yet fail so miserably at it. Just play the old games, guys! It's not exactly hard to figure out that floatiness is key.

  2. #22
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    Okay. I might be evil for this, but in a sense, I'm almost hoping for the physics in FF to stay like this.

    Why? Because I want the original WipEout series to be the only saga having this particular gameplay that made it so successful.

    And because I still live with the hope that on day, Wipeout will officially be back and the saga will continue.
    Last edited by AdHoc; 6th August 2015 at 03:19 AM.

  3. #23
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    I think I was slightly misunderstood by Colin....I wasn't inferring to choices made with the making of PURE, or any of the other WO games being the cause of SL closing.
    The travesty that befell SL was, Sony just didn't promote the games SL were making, they just used SL for providing games for new console releases or a new way of getting games HD first download only title], and the games that SL did make, as you mentioned, ended up being given away as compensation for disasters made elsewhere...it was shameful what Sony did to SL.

    What I was referring to was the choices made with Blur, and the closing of Bizarre Creations by owners Activision, mind you, Activision closed a lot of studios, so I'm probably being rather harsh by singling out Blur, but I distinctly remember a TV Gaming show here in OZ mentioning that disappointingly low sales of both Blur and another Bizarre game were the reason they were looking to sell Bizarre off, but no buyer could be found, so they just closed it.

    How I connected Blur to FF was that FF Alpha has two things that Blur had, that put me off buying it, the transparent pickups via running into them, and the Blur effect when running over speed pads ....which HD/FURY had as well, but could turn off.

    As for Formula Fusion....well after a week of technical difficulties meaning I haven't been able to get the game to work till yesterday [and heading into my 3rd week of being on strong antihistamines - it's been like having to wear a Motorcycle helmet 24/7], I haven't been able to put the time in to really test things out fully....my comments have been based on videos uploaded of FF's gameplay by others.....I mean there are some things so obvious that you don't need first hand experience to know that you don't like them, and can give reasons why.

    R8 says they are at least 8 months away from a full release....that seems like a pretty long time to tweak the craft physics/handling to me, but then again I'm not involved with doing this sort of thing, so for all I know it might be wishful thinking on their part ???

    I'm sure Colin could chime in here with his thought's regarding that proposed time frame if he wanted to, as he would be the most knowledgeable person at this forum to give a reply other than somebody at R8.

    As it stands, the only player view available to test with at the moment is not the one I would ever use anyway, so until first person cockpit view is made available to test with, my comments on craft handling wouldn't be very helpful to R8 ATM.

    I'm prepared to give R8 the benefit of the doubt......I think maybe some POLLS started at the FF forum, asking for opinions on various specific in game inclusions or deletions or options to turn on/off would be worthwhile......things like craft handling I would think will change as builds progress, so I'm not really worried about that ATM.

    I, and I think pretty much everybody at this forum, just want a "Serious" AG racer we can spend endless hours playing.

    Maybe we should all chill out a bit..... I know some of my previous comments have been a bit hot headed....mainly because I [like everybody here ] really do care about this game.

    Reading comments made, our biggest worry ATM is that we think this initial build has design elements to it that make it seem too much of a arcade racer.....Ok, let's let that be known......start complaining about the craft handling after the 2nd or 3rd build if it's still severely lacking...early days.
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 6th August 2015 at 03:16 PM.

  4. #24
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    Ah, I think I understand what you mean now

    Regarding dev time, it depends on many factors, from tools, to number of staff etc. I certainly wouldnt expect additional tracks until the handling is near final. You dont want to rebuild track sections to fit handling, nor do you want to compromise handling to fit tracks. So get the handling and feel right, and build around that.
    You dont need to build all vehicles, just examples of the extremes.

  5. #25
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    I hope R8 can stick to the quality levels of SL .

    We WILL wait, if it means R8 needs more time getting it right......pointless doing it unless FF turns out Amazing.....I just hope R8 has the needed funds to do it to the quality level they envision....the Talent is there, so is the drive.

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    Regarding physics, i don't understand why they went on steam early access already? it's way too soon!! People are doing race records and getting accustomed to the current physics which (i think & hope) they will still adjust a ton, meaning the people who invested the time into getting used to the current ones will get alienated and most likely just leave the franchise not bothering to spend the time to get used to it again (it's like patch 2.51 >.>)
    They can't be THAT desperate for money can they??

    Cipher

  7. #27
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    The majority of people posting times are members of the TPP, so they should be expecting things to change from version to version. It's the reason I'm not concerning myself with posting times or anything, they'll all be irrelevant as soon as the next build comes out. I do agree though that they're taking an enormous risk putting such a bare bones version up as the first Early Access version. What happens if someone like Jim Sterling or TotalBiscuit get their hands on it? Saying it's an early alpha won't help, the fact is they're charging £20 for it and people are gonna have minimum expectations for that. Maybe they'll see the worth in the build and tell their viewers to keep an eye on it, but I know for a fact they will say DON'T buy it in its current state. And considering the influence they have, that could be very damaging.
    Last edited by Hellfire_WZ; 6th August 2015 at 06:08 PM.

  8. #28
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    It was an instant buy for me. Sure I thought as you it was an enormous risk to go early access right now with almost nothing at all, but at least we can already point out what's nice and what's bad, like the wall scrapping advantage at the moment. My guess is they need bakers and I felt guilty for not contributing with kickstarter so i rushed into this steam offer. Unreal engine is a nice choice, should give us some great results in the end. I think the physics are already great, having a blast with time trial mode, except the fact, as I said, wall scrapping is better than doing a nice airbrake push. Going back to the roots (no barrel rolls, only the best racing lines) is a nice feeling too. But yes you're right Hellfire, I'm already seeing bad reviews from steam curators and it's not good for the future. Hope they'll realize how much they were wrong soon. Million seller!!! Big hopes.

  9. #29
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    I think I'll wait until general release... this thread discussion has helped me to decide. Ah, so good to find a thread useful in wz after all this time - even if it isn't about wipEout...

    ...feck it, I have to say this. I don't believe any game attempt by any devs can top the wipEouts (w'o" fusion included). Unless they be psygnosis/SL all the way. That's what I think. But I also hope that FF will be something special. Another hope is that the weps pads haven't been designed yet (crosses fingers) and that's the reason you guys have to put up with those silly holograms instead.

    Floatiness. Where the feckingham is it?

    Ships...you don't get a choice of ship style? only the skin it goes in? I suppose it's more like formula1 in that sense... but that's formula1, not wipEout. Where's this spiritual successor?

    So far from me, I'm impressed someways, and disappointed in others - but it's faaar too early to tell how FF is going to end up as a successor to wipEout, as you guys have rightly mentioned above. Sorry for the useless rant, i'm only going to end up repeating what I started off this post with and say, I think I'll wait until general release.

  10. #30
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    Until they fix the FOV problems, the game is very close to unplayable for me.
    The HUD is generally completely cut off by the bottom of my screen, and the craft moves so far left and right that I can't get a feel for the direction it's pointing, especially as relates to the track walls

  11. #31
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    For me it wouldn't download not really a pc gamer think its consoles all the way 😀

  12. #32
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    I've just been doing some side by side comparisons between FF and WO HD, I tried to even the playing field as much as I could, so I used the same racing view and chose Triakis as it's handling seemed the most similar to the FF craft.
    I have the PC & PS3 hooked up to the TV, so I just switch inputs and controllers [I'm using a wireless Xbox 360 controller for FF ]

    First observations...HUD's
    I was using the highest setting and full screen with FF, I didn't have any problem with the HUD being cut off.....I know the FF HUD is still a work in progress, but using the same FOV, the HD HUD, although being much smaller and transparent, was very easy to read, and this is for somebody that never normally races in this FOV.......The FF HUD on the other hand seemed to be part of the craft [sort of like if a car had run over a cardboard box, and it had just stuck underneath it with 75% hanging out the rear and dragging behind it]....the result was I kept looking for a HUD but couldn't see one, to my eyes it just seemed part of the craft....I put that down to the HUD on FF is moving with the craft.....where the WO HUD is a static overlay.....the other point was that I could see the WO HD HUD without taking my eye off the racing line I intended to use, where with the FF HUD, I had to focus on the rear of the craft, taking my eye of the track ahead, causing me to hit the sides.

    Conclusion ...I doubt any change in colour, shape or transparency to the FF HUD will make any difference to the readability of it if it remains moving with the craft....needs a rethink

    First Observations... TRACK
    Well there is only one at the moment, New York....as a track design I thinks it's pretty good, it does have that all important WO vibe about it...if you were racing this with WO HD craft at any speed you would like it, you could probably find a few short cuts on it as well , there's nothing particularly challenging about it as it is ATM, [like the first left turn on Chenghou forward ]even using the FF craft as they handle now, but if R8 bring in pit stops, that could change....I suppose it depends where they would place it on this track.
    I suppose R8 will spruce it up a bit before final release, but on the whole, I don't think track design is something we are going to have to worry about.

    Conclusion....Put your minds at rest regarding FF having tracks equal to WO tracks, if not possibly something better in the works.

    First observations- Weapons.
    Only two with the trial, the barrier and rockets, the rockets take longer to launch than a Plasma bolt on HD and seem to do little damage to the other craft, the barrier drops straight away.....both weapons when used against you by the AI craft can do a lot of damage.
    No conclusion as so little to report...it will all change in due course.

    First observations- AI Craft.
    The more I play this trial in race mode, the more I'm beginning to think R8 might just have some sort of "Learning AI" happening in the background...I'll keep my cards close to my chest with this one.

    Conclusion...if correct, and learning AI are a part of this game, it could make WO HD's Elite AI seem a push over.

    First observations - Craft Handling
    OK, the elephant in the room time, and the one that is worrying even those known for being imperturbable.
    If you break it down logically into it's components, honestly, it isn't as bad as some people are saying.
    Comparing the FF craft to WO HD's Triakis....it made Triakis handling seem more like you were using Feisar or Assegai....the FF craft are very unresponsive ATM in comparison, the steering is either too slow to react to controller input, or the range of movement programmed for each degree of controller steering movement is insufficient....you would think it would make the craft seem heavy, but it doesn't, because there is a general lack of a differentiating dynamic response regrading the craft's "Ride", or Suspension [not a AG term I know], this last factor is not determined by controller input, it's determined in the programming.

    Air braking ATM has no sensitivity control adjustment available, it works, and is pretty much similar to HD, but without the ride and steering reaction sorted, it's not as effective as it is in WO HD....there is NO side shifting available, but if you hit a side wall hard enough you get a effect very similar to a side shift, as it thrusts you out from the wall into the middle of the track [you also lose shield energy when this happens]

    Conclusion - It might seem cobbled together by some, and to some extent it is, but then again this is a Alpha build.
    If you break down each element that makes/effects craft handling, into separate components [and each component has obviously been built already, otherwise the craft wouldn't be able to be steered at all] , you would know that it is only a matter of adjustment needed of each of these to get the desired effect.....I mean it's only these sort of adjustments that make a Assegai NOT like a AG-Systems....little tweaks.

    Anyway, after doing this comparison....honestly, I don't think we have much to worry about.

    OH, and by the way, there is one very important difference between WO and FF that keeps being missed out on by ALL, and I have not seen mentioned by anybody, and will effect the way any FF craft operate.

    Just re view the original FF video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=24&v=iASsC2Du8R4
    Last edited by blackwiggle; 7th August 2015 at 03:52 PM.

  13. #33
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    Excellent in-depth review blackwiggle Looks like you're starting to see the diamond in the rough. Just back from the PC dealer, upgraded my rig for the future eh eh, I7 4790K OC @4.4ghz, paired with my GTX970; the -almost- perfect ride to run this Unreal engine at its best. And mgs5 I must admit
    After 14 hours now in NY, I'm feeling even more these good vibes I used to sense a few years ago. Starting to know the track, but as usual this game is awesomely demanding and performing a perfect lap is still way behind me. Broke the 44 secs barrier just a few hours ago, still sooo far from the best Test Pilot times (a low 42 secs, and 41 probably pretty soon Oh for sure the physics need to be improved a lot. As most of the TP said, wall scrapping (depending on the angle of the collision, you're instantly stopped or you get a few scratches which in the end gives you a good angle for the next turn and practicallly no loss in speed) must be corrected, and yes airbrakes need some tweaks/adjustments. But jeez this is already so good to cruise on this AG-track.
    So yes, to my mind; they definitely (desperately should I say) need money. Maybe 23€79 (until aug. 10th, after the price will be 27.99€) is a bit high for just one track and one ship... But hey this is Wip3out. And you won't buy it again in 8 or 9 months. Not to mention the price will be for sure under 30/40€, probably more, for the real release date. Sure we can't compare but I bought Dirt with the early access option and I'm not regretting it
    Ok back to NY now, need to improve my lines
    Last edited by kanar; 7th August 2015 at 07:23 PM.

  14. #34
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    Nearly identical PC's , I just can't be arsed doing all the stability testing needed for OCing so I saved a few $$ and bought the standard i7 4790 chip.

    That link I gave above in my previous post isn't the one I was thinking of, it's this one below, when R8 were still in proposal mode and calling it Slam Jet Racing, before deciding on a name change to Formula Fusion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=13&v=TR3JI-w7TGQ

    What I was getting at was, the over concern voiced about craft handling, without anybody taking into account the amount of performance tweaks pilots will be able to do to their craft in game....just look at the video and freeze it a certain points, read what the performance adjustments are to see what R8 have planned.

  15. #35
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    The FoV problems I mentioned are worse for me because I have an ultrawide display, and worse again for anyone using multiple displays. The FoV is calculated based on the width of the screen, so if you have a wider aspect ratio it effectively cuts the top and bottom off.
    The overlay at the top that tilts around (I really like that, they should use that for the whole HUD rather than the chase thing) isn't even visible at my native resolution - I didn't know it was there until I tried one race at 1600x900 windowed.

    Related to that is that the amount the craft moves left and right in the chasecam view is tied to this too. It moves left and right so much on my display that it breaks my ability to sense the direction my craft is pointing.
    To put how much this affects my ability to pilot into perspective... I have finished every wipeout game except 64 and 2048, and I have yet to even finish a single race in formula fusion

  16. #36
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    Another good point has been made on the FF forums regarding the weapons. How many of you noticed a small bar on the right side of the HUD? It fills up every time you hit a weapon icon, and you can only fire your weapon when it is full. I had absolutely no idea, no wonder I was sitting there wondering why my weapons were doing f*ck all! This is another reason why the HUD is useless in its current state, not only is it difficult to make out any useful information, it's not even clear what information the HUD is even trying to show!

  17. #37
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    I see Varsh mentioned in that post that the HUD has had some major overhauls in the latest build, but if others like Lion can't even see the full HUD, it's not going to make any difference.
    By the way, are build updates sent automatically?
    I remember when I set up Steam/FF there was a option to have that happen, but I can't remember if I chose it, and after looking for it a few minutes ago can't seem to find where it's located......anybody know where I can find it to check ?

  18. #38
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    The resolution problem is being worked on, should be addressed in the next build. To check if you're auto-updating, right click on the game in your Steam library and go to Properties. Should be under one of the tabs

  19. #39
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    Right-click Formula Fusion in your steam library
    Select Properties
    Go to the Updates tab
    Ensure that the Automatic updates option is set to Always keep this game up to date

    While you're in there, go to the Betas tab
    Check that you have selected test_pilot - Test Pilot Programme only branch - assuming you have TPP
    I can see the developer option in there for selection too, I'm not sure if it works though? I would have thought they'd police this a little more thoroughly

  20. #40
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    It doesn't, you have to have a developer key to access that version

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