Thoughts on Van Uber and Tigron

Having played Fusion back in the day I was DELIGHTED to see the return of both classic ships. For me, I was a little underwhelmed by Van Uber, but pleasantly surprised by the Tigron.

Van Uber isn't my particular play style, but I see it being a good substitute for AG and FEISAR type pilots. I don't like how they don't have Fury counterparts for either, but I can dig Van Uber as a good Phantom class ship.

Tigron on the other-hand is hard to place. I chose it initially because it is slightly better than Fury Piranha. Once I unlock Icaras Fury, I'll probably switch because of the extra 5% handling and thrust. Given the team history I was a little surprised that it had low shield stats, but it does handle better than Piranha and has better thrust. I don't know what the fabled "hidden stats" are for it. but I've noticed that it pushes other ships around better when slamming another ship. That would make sense. It also seems slower to roll and has a mass that keeps it lower to the ground making it harder slightly to roll with.

After playing all 70 handling ships for a bit I feel Tigrons airbrakes can make sharper turns than others. If you're used to EG-X or Icaras it's easy to overshoot when pushing brakes all the way down but this gives nice flexibility for technical tracks and phantom class if you have high control sensitivity.

edit: My bad, its pretty close to goteki45. Didn't use that enough

Well Phantom is a different beast. I typically in the past have used Icaras for all Rapier, Flash, and Venom. I like Harimau for Phantom because the extra 5% speed is worth giving up for much better control.

Though this next point has been talked to death in HD/Fury, it still stands. Each ship has handling and/or "hidden" benefits that you will only notice after playing a while and taking into account some of the lore from previous ships and teams. Airbraking slightly contributes to the sideshift distance if I'm not mistaken for all non-zone ships. Also, dual hull ships all share a common hidden stat of being centrally weighted towards the back. Whereas Icaras and Piranha both have a different center of gravity.

Also to be noted, the + ships (the Fury models) are a bit heavier in comparison to the HD versions. Example: Icaras+ has slightly better stats on paper, but what you don't see is how the Icaras HD ship is more nimble and easier to roll.

All that being said, Tigron on paper, is a superior version of the Icaras HD. In fact, you could argue that on paper, Tigron is even better than Icaras+ because it has the same speed but with slightly lower handling and thrust *but* it also has 10% higher shield, which is important for barrel rolls and general weapons damage. The reason that the Tigron might seem to have better airbrake response is likely due to the ship's dual hull design and the center of gravity in that it can use momentum to swing around a little better. Icaras on the otherhand has a much more narrow line of approach, but makes up for it with better sideshifting capabilities. Icaras as a result won't swing around as much because it has less mass to use as momentum.

Cant' say much about Van Uber. It always has a history of being flimsy, but incredibly nimble. That would seem to be pretty close given the new version.

One final point: Tigron has a history of being a brick wall, and the super weapon was basically a turbo-ram in Fusion. While it doesn't have a special weapon anymore, it does seem to hold position better on the track (kind of like a Triakis) when nudging other pilots. This would also make sense given the lore.

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Originally Posted by mannjon

Tigron has a history of being a brick wall, and the super weapon was basically a turbo-ram in Fusion.

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The turbo ram was tho one for Pirhana (against all logic). You were right about the brick wall though, as AFAIK it didn't lose shield when ramming.

BTW I'not really a fan of the looks of the craft.
This may have been said before, but Tigron had some of the most iconic shapes of all wipeout crafts and they ditched this for a triakis with more exhausts...

Was that the Piranha super weapon? I could swear it was Tigron. As if Piranha wasn't op enough already in Fusion.

I was kind of sad they went with a dual hull design. It's like a pointy Triakis that flies more like an Icaras. I was hoping for something that had a nose like a MIG like the original did. I also think it should have more shield but that would be unbalanced. This Tigron doesn't seem that aggressive bull dog that it use to be.

Van uber is closer but the arms should be longer. But at least it is a dual hull like the original was.

Love the Tigron craft!

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Originally Posted by Concealed Sequence

Love the Tigron craft!

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Well there you have it folks. That kind of sums up my sentiments as well. The more I race the more I like it. I was a straight up Icaras pilot and that extra energy stat is huge. It fits right between Icaras and piranha.

I am in love with Tigron, especially livery 3, looks like it came straight out of fusion :D . A little bit dissapointed with Van-Uber's lack of design throwbacks, but its not really surprising giving that its a scrapped model for Tigron that was retextured (Source is from the Omega Collection Digital Artbook, if anyone's interested). Both craft are great in terms of stats though, really fun ships to pilot.

That's really true, is it? Huh, that explains why the models have similar base design cues to one another.

Makes me wonder which was originally meant to be the HD version and which might've been the Fury version.

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Originally Posted by Justice & Curtains

A little bit dissapointed with Van-Uber's lack of design throwbacks, but its not really surprising giving that its a scrapped model for Tigron that was retextured (Source is from the Omega Collection Digital Artbook, if anyone's interested).

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Personally, this Van-Über looks pretty similar to the F9000/FX300 ones in basic design, considering the borderline Tri-Hull of Fusion and Pure. The central pod even looks inspired by one of those 1930s German cars, my guess is a Mercedes-Benz 770. It's just that the "arms" are unusually shaped, as well as the entire back area.

But yes indeed. From the evidence in the concept art book and the ships' design cues, it very much looks as if Van-Über would have been Tigron HD, and the Tigron we have now was intended to be Tigron Fury.

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As an aside, from a kooky conspiracy-theorist lore point of view and not including the Über/Tigron ship design, things seem a bit more interesting in the FX350.

The Tigron training team funded partially by Qirex was disbanded in order to remove any links back to the dark days of AG racing. Van-Über stays onboard after Pure (FX300) to do pre-season testing (Wipeout HD/FX350) for Pulse (FX400) with all the other constructors, with a bright future in pure racing with minimal combat.

Suddenly, "Tigron" returns for the FX350 with an unknown team director, unknown pilot and funding completely uncontrolled by Qirex. They sport an old F9000 combat chassis that was stolen from one of Tigron's factories, and dominate the race track, forcing Triakis and other teams linked with weapons and defense contracting to respond with their own battle-ready ships in order to keep them in check. To try and alleviate the problem, the Fury league is launched by the AG Racing Commission to reintroduce combat events without too much damage to the reputation of the racing league.

Nevertheless, Van-Über are horrified to see a return to the battlefield racing tactics of the F9000, and decide to withdraw entirely. Mysteriously, soon after Tigron withdraws too, but the seeds of the Fury/Pulse elimination league were planted.

Dude that's actually a perfect way of explaining van uber's disappearance, well done!

Both ships look really cool, I like the Fusion era paint jobs they have included too. Can't see me using them much as the moment though Tigron feels too heavy and Van Uber is too nippy handling wise.

Also the Tigron Super Weapon was the Nitro Rocket, bastard of a weapon.

Please guy , i didn't pay attention how to unlocked Tigron ... how it can be unlocked ?

I preordered my copy in the US, so it might be different. But I think it may unlock when you just progress with the campaign. From what I've heard, van uber is currently an exclusive preorder bonus and can't be obtained any other way.

I didn't pre-order, I just headed to my local game Stop and picked it up when I saw it was out a month before I thought. (I had assumed it was being released in July, because the release date I saw was from the UK "day/month/year" and assumed it to be US style "month/day/year").

However, the game came with a Play Station Store code in the insert, and that opened up 4 PSN avatars and the Van-Über ships.

I have only played on time trial with Van-Über, and a few racebox events with Tigron. Of the two, I prefer the Tigron, but both are fine ships. Once I have opened up all of the skins for the other craft, I'll start putting more time into these two.

On venom and flash, Tigron is noteworthy for green racing because the #1 reason a green racer loses is being destroyered, and that extra 10% ship energy over an Icaras is significant, while retaining better handling and acceleration than the Piranha.

I also found that the Van-Uber is a pretty good middle ground between AG-SYS and Feisar. It might be my new Phantom ship, I just don't like the dual hull's weight distribution because it feels like a mid-engine car, whereas the Harimau, Feisar and AG-SYS all handle like cars with front mounted engines.

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Originally Posted by tug_14

Please guy , i didn't pay attention how to unlocked Tigron ... how it can be unlocked ?

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I got mine from the PS store didn't need to do anything Tigron and Van Uber were there for selection when i started the game. I also have physical copies which I assume have a code inside.

I can't recall if Tigron was a pre order bonus or not you'll no doubt be able to buy it soon if it was. Van Uber was supposed to be a digital only bonus.

I never pre-ordered the game, but I had Van-Uber unlocked from the start and I unlocked Tigron soon after.

Since they returned these two ships, I wonder what's next on their agenda. G-Tech?

I highly doubt it. G-Tech wasn't in Pure, Tigron and Van-Uber were.

Well it won't be Xios or Egr (EGX). So it might be safe to assume that really all they could do was tigron and van uber. Wasn't g-tech bought out by goteki?

I wonder if there's a possibility of Clever Beans making their own, new manufacturer, kinda like how Piranha was added in 2097, Goteki 45, Icaras, Assegai etc in 3, G-tech (even though I know it's an amalgamation of AG Sys and another group) and Xios in Fusion, Triakis in Pure/Pulse etc.?

I think that'd be pretty interesting, if it was possible to pull off.

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Originally Posted by KazzyMac

I wonder if there's a possibility of Clever Beans making their own, new manufacturer, kinda like how Piranha was added in 2097, Goteki 45, Icaras, Assegai etc in 3, G-tech (even though I know it's an amalgamation of AG Sys and another group) and Xios in Fusion, Triakis in Pure/Pulse etc.?

I think that'd be pretty interesting, if it was possible to pull off.

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I thought EGX was the combination of EGR and Xios and G-Tech was a merger of AG-SYS and Goteki? What am I missing here?

As to your idea though, what about a new ship as DLC based on community feedback? THAT would be AWESOME.

I thought all barrel rolls do 15 shield energy. Do higher shields affect this?

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The way I have been playing WipEout the last couple years has been going through the campaign with each ship, maxing out loyalty. This gives me a good amount of time with each ship. I just started doing this with Omega, and started with Assegai, since it is my favorite. I tend to like higher handling over speed, which is something I look for in any racing game. I did the whole HD campaign with Van Uber, and at first I didn't quite like it. Something felt off for me, even though stats wise it sounds pretty good. After playing it for a while, I did come to like it more, although I still prefer Assegai and Feisar over it. As for the Tigron, I'll probably do a run through the campaign with this one after I finish Qirex because I am curious. I used for a few races online and initially was not feeling, but I'll give it more time and see.
As for the looks, I do like the Tigron. I generally like the dual chassis ship look. The Van Uber, to me, looks good at certain angles, but is not my favorite. It is new content though, and it fits with the game, so I'm glad to see it in there. As for the lore, I'm sure something can explain it. I just wish there were fury ships for each team. Maybe that will be possible in the future.
I am glad that WipEout is back, and current on the PS4. It's a joy to see lobbies with players online again, and I hope this takes off with more players joining. This is one of my favorite game series, if not my favorite.

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Originally Posted by mannjon

I thought EGX was the combination of EGR and Xios and G-Tech was a merger of AG-SYS and Goteki? What am I missing here?

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Goteki actually had their home island of Makana carpet bombed out of existence by an unknown entity in 2137. They only managed to rebuild in the later half of the century.

And in an unrelated series of events later in the days of Fusion, all the constant testing and changes AG-Systems made to the ships between races coupled with their losses over the years of racing started to incur some serious debts. They decided to hand over the assets for their AG racing team over to G-Tech in 2155 to keep AG Systems' commercial side afloat.

But yes, EG.X is the merger of EG.r and Xios.

Ah, many thanks, Thane. I forgot about AG having money troubles. Slightly off topic but did you like EGR or Xios better before the merge? I personally liked Xios pilots better, but cheng was around in Wipeout 1, so he had that history despite changing teams. EGR was probably the better craft though.

Ah, as far as we know it's a different guy. There's Daniel Chang of team AG Systems in Wipeout 1, who was apparently the first fatality in AG racing history. And then there's Paul Cheung of team EG.r in Fusion.

Personally, I preferred Xios. EG.r had the resources to kidnap or coerce people, wipe their memories (Paul Cheung "lost his memory after a party", Alex Reese "lost his memory from PTSD after being held hostage during the European butter riots"), and implant them with somewhat unethical cyborg enhancements to try and improve human reaction times. Even if Xios was a weapons development firm, they were much more humane to their pilots.

I always thought that the EGR pilots in Fusion looked a little "cyborgish" shall we say? I thought that Chang and Cheung were the same. But looking at Chang's "win picture" definitely confirms that isn't true! Also I suck at Wipeout 1 now. Even on slower speeds ANY collision is like getting hit with a missile followed by a rocket; it takes forever to get back going after an impact. Oddly enough Slipstream wasn't a problem like it used to be.