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aybe
16th May 2015, 07:16 AM
For those that ended up here from their search engine, do not ask for where to download the game !!!

After many trial and error I finally understood the issues and got the thing to work flawlessly thanks to dgVoodoo :P For now, the 2 demos of 2097 and XL are working, retail versions are not behaving similarly :turd but working hard on getting them up :pirate. The game still runs too fast, this issue will be looked at later. There are no tricks involved beside using a 32-bit installer and the dgVoodoo emulation layer, you install the game normally and play it through its icon from the start menu.

It's such a pity that thus far, no single :turd source on the web did provide a definitive answer on this, here you have it, and from teh Wipeout forum on the web. Trust no one but us :D

I have prepared a package containing the demos taken from jeuxvideo.com (http://www.jeuxvideo.com/telecharger/jeux-et-demos/00000440-wipeout-2097-pc.htm) and archive.org (https://archive.org/details/WIPEOUT_201406) along instructions:

https://mega.nz/#!tsNEzJCY!TDJzemNLdNl0Dp-ZK8cPaLBvvCtmwgC1tKWsLwVbDEw

PS: these are instructions for 64-bit Windows, for 32-bit, removing 'Wow6432Node' from the registry path will probably do.

Waiting for your feedback :P

EDIT for the DIYer

If you wish to do it all by yourself, here are the instructions from the README :



- unzip "Wipeout 2097 demo.zip" or "Wipeout XL demo.zip"
- from "Is3Engine.zip" copy "setup32.exe" next to "setup.exe" and run it
- install the game somewhere else than "Program Files" else you'll have to run
dgVoodoo as admin for it to create the config. (below), no need to reboot
- set "Wipeout2.exe" compatibility to run as admin (and nothing else !)
- from "dgVoodoo2_43.zip" copy "dgVoodooSetup.exe", "MS\D3DImm.dll",
"MS\DDraw.dll" next to "Wipeout2.exe"
- run "dgVoodooSetup.exe", press ".\" then "OK"
(this creates a default config and makes the game go full screen as well)
- run "Wipeout2.exe", choose "Direct3D HAL" and "640x480"

Enjoy :D (it's a bit too fast, though !)


EDIT:
- note, AVs might ban the DLLs from dgVoodoo, make sure it doesn't happen.
- make sure in dgVoodoo the 'config folder' is right as pressing '.\' might not pick it after all

EDIT 2 : Running the retail versions of 2097 / XL

Here are the instructions :D

(make sure to read those above as well, the dgVoodoo setup is not explained here)



- copy all files from CD to a directory
- copy setup32.exe to this directory, set compatibility to Win95
- launch setup32.exe, install (Typical), skip DirectX
- update the registry to point to your CD drive:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Psygnosis\ Studios\Wipeout2097]
"Source Directory"="E:\\"
- set Wipeout2.exe to run as admin
- run dgVoodooSetup.exe, press .\ (or make sure config folder is correct),
then press OK -> builds the defaut dgVoodoo config for this game.
- run the game (only Direct3D HAL is available)
- enjoy !
- wait for the speed issue to be solved :D

(you can delete the copied CD files once finished)

Files used:
- IsEngine3.zip
- dgVoodoo2_43.zip

To find them either grab the previous demo package I've uploaded or typing
these names in your favourite search engine should bring some result.


Note that retail versions do not crash when Alt-Tabbing compared to demo, mouse is hidden though.

You can also make it windowed by tweaking dgVoodoo a bit:

9478

What's left:

the speed issue
networking, eventually



To be continued :p

tigrou
17th May 2015, 06:26 PM
Hi Aybe,


Thank you for this. Anyway iut does not work on my machine :bomb

I follow all instructions. When i ran the exe file i got the Wipeout2 configuration screen (with "Play game" button). Anyway i cannot select anything there (i got spinning cursor animation and windows in frozen).

I have to manually kill the process (which use 100% of one core).

I tried some additional stuff like win95/98 compat mode, and such but no help. Both XL and 2097 demos have same issue :(

qp6015309
17th May 2015, 08:04 PM
The game still runs too fast, this issue will be looked at later.

What's left:

the speed issue


The game speed seems to be tied to the framerate.

At 30 fps, the game speed is normal.

At framerates above 30 fps, the game speed is running too fast.

There are framerate limiter tools out there which can limit the framerate to a certain amount of frames per second.

It can be done with Dxtory, MSI Afterburner or with the built in FPS limiter tool of the NVIDIA driver for example.

But not sure if this will work for you since you are using this "dgVoodoo" thing.

But it definitely works when using the native "Direct3D HAL" API.

With an Intel GPU on Windows 7 64-bit, the native "Direct3D HAL" API works fine and this "dgVoodoo" thing does not need to be used.

And limiting the framerate to 30 fps also works fine and the game runs at normal speed.

But 30 fps sucks... :(

Something else:

The maximum selectable resolution usually is 800x600 or 1024x768.

Would there be any way to increase the resolution to something higher?

And do you think it would be possible to get the game to run in true widescreen with proper FOV?

Some PSX emulators are able to play the game in true widescreen with proper FOV, see for example the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He_ECf9T1hk

Do you think this would also be possible for the PC version of the game?

And would there be any way to make the game run at normal speed, even at higher framerates like 60 fps or 120 fps?

30 fps simply sucks.

And something else:

Is there any way to make the shadows of the ships transparent?

On the PSX version the shadows are transparent, but on the PC version they are not.

And would there be any way to get the blue exhaust rays on the PC version?

At least with the native "Direct3D HAL" API, they are missing.

Also:

The PC version seems to be quite a bit darker and less vibrant (color wise) compared to the PSX version.

The PSX version is brighter and has more vibrant colors than the PC version (at least with the "Direct3D HAL" API).

Any chance that could be fixed somehow?

Regards

- - - Updated - - -

PS:

The sound quality of the PC version also is much worse than the PSX version.

The PSX version has way better sound quality than the PC version.

Any chance the sound quality of the PC version could be improved to the quality of the PSX version?

Regards

aybe
17th May 2015, 08:47 PM
@tigrou

Hi !

I've been trying to track this one out but well ... I used to have this issue when I haven't really looked at the problem, now I've litterally ran the game 100s of time and it worked every time.

What you should try/verify:

Registry

The last 2 reg keys below are mandatory because whenever I comment either, the game will revert to its non-working behavior of not enough memory, make sure they contain no other flags than what it's below (it's a bit strange as the HKLM one does not reflect user settings yet it is needed for the game to run ...). Note, the first key can be ignored as it seems to be created every time.

9487

That confirms what I've told in first post: the game never runs when you set Win95 compatibility or anything else, so uncheck it.

DirectX

As dgVoodoo is a recent thing, I would suggest you ensure you have up to date drivers as well as reinstalling DirectX, who knows ...

TODO

I would try the following:

uninstall the game
drivers/DirectX update
reinstall demo + dgVooodo


Just to ensure, make sure that when you run dgVoodoo it really creates the default config next to Wipeout2.exe, delete dgVoodoo.conf there and run the configurator, when you press OK that file should appear, if it does not then probably dgVoodoo picks up the default config in %APPDATA% (the combo box on top).

VirtualBox

By curiosity, have you tried it in a box with XP ? When you install the additions make sure to be in safe mode for it to install the Wined3d DLLs and, then turn off the box and ensure 3d acceleration is ticked in its properties.

apitrace (rather for the posterity ...)

I've been trying to watch for the game with http://apitrace.github.io/, it ends up not running but there's a log for Frame 0 that might contain useful info on what call is causing this.


apitrace -v --api d3d7 "full path to exe"

However I think I understand why it never starts, apitrace has its own ddraw.dll in ..\lib\wrappers and it is certainly not the dgVoodoo's one. Basically it will overwrite the dgVoodoo's one that is next to Wipeout2.exe, so be aware of that.

PS:

There's another solution that personally I've abandoned as I've never got anything working by myself but might be worth trying : DxWnd (http://sourceforge.net/projects/dxwnd/)

What you should do is post a question there, the owner is really nice as for Shadow of the Empire, not only he made it work but took a look at the disassembly to find the cause :D That might give some clues to you, as when you run it locally it can generate a log. He's really incredible as he takes it personally and can make practically any game to run, though not always in hardware mode but software emulation.

The next logical thing would be to get in touch with the dgVoodoo owner, idk how actually but a rough guess is that he's probably watching this topic : http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=34931



sorry if my instructions are a bit dispersed ...

- - - Updated - - -

@qp6015309

Intel IGP

You are definitely right, I confirm some of those DX7 games do run natively on it and in hardware mode.

Frame rate

This patch plays the game at a speed faithful to the original version : http://www.abandonware-france.org/ltf_abandon/ltf_jeu.php?id=750

There's no music though ...

Thrust/shadow

1. exist in the PC version and are transparent
2. I don't remember if they were transparent in 3dfx

These are likely not supported by dgVoodoo, the RGB emulation in VirtualBox do show transparent thrust

everything else

Patches might eventually surface if we get more comfortable with the asm code, though for things such as FOV it might be another story, remember that this is a DirectX 3 game, things were not as they are today.

For the resolution I've seen that 320x240 is hardcoded but it has to yet be found how the game populates the ones available. When using Windbg, dgVoodoo outputs up to 1920x1200 for the resolution it supports so it should handle it. Game logic needs to be understood as on why these are not available, a rough guess is that back in '97 there was nothing above, personally I remember running in 800x600. There's a high probability the game can be patched for this.

You can also use ePSXe to benefit of HD rendering with very fine polygons, you won't get 60fps though.

BTW, the strong selling point of the PC version that the PSX cannot beat is that it's 480p -> twice the details, just play it for about 30 mins then switch to your CRT/PSX, you will clearly notice the difference :D

qp6015309
17th May 2015, 09:54 PM
This patch plays the game at a speed faithful to the original version

The patch does not work here.

What does the patch do?

Does the patch simply cap the framerate at 30 fps?

Or does it actually adjust the gamespeed and allows for normal gamespeed even at framerates higher than 30 fps (i.e. 60 fps, 120 fps etc.)?

Also:

What about the sound quality?

The sound quality of the PC version is much worse than the PSX version.

The PSX version has way better sound quality than the PC version.

Any chance the sound quality of the PC version could be improved to the quality of the PSX version?

Regards

aybe
17th May 2015, 10:14 PM
The patch slows it down but the animation is smooth, I would not qualify it to be a true 60 fps though -> it probably run at 60fps but the game update rate is 30.

For the sound I've just looked at both versions, I don't see any differences between the VAGs in the WAD and the WAVs, they are slightly louder though -> consider the decoding of the VAG format which might introduce filtering, the PSX circuitry, your TV circuitry as well. Other than that the samples of the PC are absolutely fine, no distort/quality issues -> you hear them as they are and you are probably accustomed to a more colored sound of the PSX version. You can very easily patch the PC version by extracting SOUND.WAD and convert those VAGs to WAV then put them in the PC version.

EDIT:

Here's the WAD extractor I've written:

9488

PSound will convert to WAV:

http://www.thelostworlds.net/Software/PSound_and_SoundReaver_2.html

Exercice 1: Do it and let us know if it sounds any better :P

Note: see http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?t=2059, the VAG format is like a GSM codec with predictions, thus you are probably accustomed to this sound color though it is not a faithful reproduction.

Exercice 2: Try convert those WAVs to VAGs then back to WAVs, this will convert WAV to VAG : http://www.zophar.net/utilities/ps2util/mfaudio-1-1.html

tigrou
18th May 2015, 12:43 AM
I finally found out what was the issue. I ran the exe in debugger (ollydbg), it keeps looping on a function that send MCI commands.

MCI commands are for CD-ROM stuff, which i don't have in my PC ! So it keeps firing up function, hoping the device will respond one day ! (but it will never off course).

And because it is so badly done, it does not pump windows messages while doing this, which cause window to freeze.

The worse is that this demo does not need CD at all, so no reason to fetch CD.

I noped the line and now it is fine (too fast but the game is running). And yep alt tab make it crash.

That W2097/XL PC port is just like other ports of the time (RE2, MGS, ...) : :turd

aybe
18th May 2015, 01:00 AM
That W2097/XL PC port is just like other ports of the time (RE2, MGS, ...) : :turd
so true but Kudos for WOXL as graphics are not a simple copy but rather 480p

Very good finding, that might help in running those retail patched versions in the VM, I spent the last hour trying all the patches for retail and they all go CPU 100% so your fix might help.

qp6015309
18th May 2015, 03:51 PM
For the sound I've just looked at both versions, I don't see any differences between the VAGs in the WAD and the WAVs, they are slightly louder though -> consider the decoding of the VAG format which might introduce filtering, the PSX circuitry, your TV circuitry as well. Other than that the samples of the PC are absolutely fine, no distort/quality issues -> you hear them as they are and you are probably accustomed to a more colored sound of the PSX version

Sorry, but never ever does the sound of the PC version have the same quality as the sound of the PSX version.

Just listen to it:

This is what the PC version sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiFkmmeqSRw

And this is what the PSX version sounds like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK1WSxNN4aU

Everything, the commentator voice, the engine sounds, the weapon sounds and so on, everything sounds much weaker in the PC version.

Either the PC version has lower quality sound files or the PC version has a much weaker sound engine.

It definitely sounds much worse compared to the PSX version.

Just listen to both videos and you'll see (hear) for yourself.

Regards

- - - Updated - - -

PS:

After comparing the sound of the PC version and the PSX version some more, it seems like there does not seem to be any reverb in the PC version?

The PSX version has plenty of reverb, which makes the sound much richer.

In the PC version the reverb seems to be completely missing.

Regards

NegitiveNRG
22nd June 2015, 04:34 PM
Works Aybe Thank ya fo tha share!
I tested, and the speed bug does not exist in multiplayer. I used the IPX patch from my post, ran NET-WOXL.EXE selected IPX and bob's your uncle. you can fly solo in this mode.
tcp/ip may work as well.
there are many band-aid fixes for insane fps, but it depends on your card. nvidia and amd both have frame limiting software these days thankfully, homework required (cards differ).
dgvoodoo using the MS API fixed my troubbled machine, AmdA4/ RADEON7400G /win7-64
WipeoutXL can play on all of my modern machines now Woot =)
maybe now someone will challenge me ;) ? cheers - (message for my steam id)

Edit-- frame limiter for Radeon Cards: http://www.radeonpro.info/
under tweaks, dynamic framrate control, set to 29. Single player = flawless

Edit (again)-- frame limiter for Nvidia Cards: http://www.guru3d.com/files-get/nvidia-inspector-download,4.html
dgvoodoo was not needed for my nvidia.

Ps- to stop random crashing, dont use the speed fixed EXE aka No-cd exe aka the 1024x768 resolution executable. Use the Originally Installed Wipeout2.exe.

one more thought to leave on..
i use a logitech cordless rumblepad 2 by default in game the throttle is punched. happens in many dual analog type pads.
the fix to this is to set the control type to keyboard only in game, then use a gamepad profile software to mimic keyboard strokes.
I started with the Logitech gamepad software profiler, but found annoying lag in gamepad. Easy to notice playing XL..
then i turned to "x360ce" + "Controler Compainion" (found on steam) made my profile and was off to the races.
Cheers

aybe
24th June 2015, 04:29 PM
Thanks for your findings, will give it a try :+

EDIT unfortunately none of your suggestions do work, RadeonPro will not want to launch the game as it requests elevation even though it is launched as admin, then there's no IPX nor speed reduction as you've mentioned.

NegitiveNRG
25th June 2015, 08:41 PM
umm ALL my suggestions work
did you execute the registry file? cause it sounds like you did not. then ipx will be selectable. Note if the selection on the launcher says "Single Player" not IPX somethings wrong.
****If single player is what it says you are playing original EXE and need to limit frames*****
the file is "directplay-win64.reg" if your 64 bit. as far as radeon pro needing admin rights what you need to do is give it. I turned my UAC off long ago, but if memory serves me... you may need to have all executable's flaged in the same manor, ie. all have admin rights or all do not, so if radeon needs it so will wipeout. Bro just cause you cant get things to launch correctly based on admin rights does not mean my suggestions do not work, if you need help post me i will be glad to help.
it its a safe bet that if you set all EXE's in the radeon pro folder and wipeout xl folders with admin privileges you will be golden

Edit-- also make sure none of the EXE's are being blocked by windows (Right click/Properties/General if its being blocked it should say)

Edit Again --- Aybe do want to try multiplayer with me? im sure we can make it work. got steam?

and again, the in game menu changes when its done right, should see multiplayer selection in race type. Then launches a in game lobby.
then you will see that you do not need a frame limiter what so ever, on multiplayer....

edited also changed my frame rate to 29 I think its better.

aybe
3rd July 2015, 10:26 PM
I previously did not see the attachment you were talking about but now I did and will take a look at it, also, sorry for the late reply but I have very little time these days ...

mannjon
8th July 2015, 05:28 PM
I'm a little curious here... why not simply use a utility for unpacking iso files like ecm? I was able to easily extract the rom from my game discs and repack it to run on an emulator. Am I missing something here? The only issue doing it that way is the cd soundtack, which there are a few workarounds to (but even on a PS3 you don't get the soundtrack!).

I personally use ePSXe to run these on not only a Windows 7 PC but also an OUYA running off a flash drive. The ePSXe emulator doesn't have any significant frame rate issues, and I can run all the PS Wipeout titles flawlessly in OpenGL at just above 30 fps. I can run them at an even higher rate of an average of 45 fps without using OpenGL.

Apologies ahead of time for not fully understanding this thread.

aybe
8th July 2015, 05:36 PM
Well the main interest (IMO) is that the feeling of PC version is different than PSX. Other than that I do have a PSX to run it on as well as under an emulator, as people say, nothing beats the original so that's one of the reasons.

BTW have you tried Retroarch as the emulator ? the Mednafen core (PSX emu) does an incredible job ! You might be skeptical of Retroarch at first but it's simply incredible once you configured it, you can run pretty much any ROM from a consolidated GUI, like on a console. Basically, it uses well known emulators except that their interface has been unified through a plugin. As of today pretty much all the good emulators are available but ePSXe though (closed source).

mannjon
8th July 2015, 09:19 PM
Oh ok. So I guess this isn't so much about the emulated version as it is the actual PC copy of the game (which I still have and forgot all about!). Not surprisingly, I found that it runs on the emulator I use much smoother than the PC version does. The emulated version feels more like the console for what it is worth. Also, there isn't a way to run the PC version in OpenGL, so I prefer to use the emulated version than the standard PC version because it plays better, looks better (due to OpenGL) and handles more like the console version. The PC version to me always felt more like a rushed port of the original than a separate version despite the close release dates which would indicate otherwise.

I actually paid for a version of ePSXe for the OUYA, it was a 0.99 cent download so I figured why not help the dev out a little. I found there are some additional features in the downloaded version I paid for. I don't know if it was a coincidence or not. But I haven't heard of Retroarch. It sounds like a multi system emulator maybe?

aybe
8th July 2015, 09:33 PM
From what I remember from nearly 20 years ago, the PC version using a 3DFX was smoother than PSX, both of which I possessed at the time. And it did run at 800x600.

The Pete's OpenGL scaling feature in ePSXe is really incredible as you enjoy the PSX game at Full HD and there's nothing like it anywhere else !

For Retroarch you should really give it a try, basically it unifies all well-known emulators (they didn't re-invent the wheel) into a gamepad-driven GUI, there are 70 emulators cores (http://buildbot.libretro.com/nightly/win-x86_64/latest/), the usual snes9x, nestopia, bsnes, mame etc ... I was skeptical of it for quite long time but after I've got a good config, I never looked back at using each of the emulator separately. Plus the fact it has shaders makes it a unique piece of software in the emu world. But as I said, unfortunately ePSXe is not in because it is closed-source.

Another interesting piece of software for emulating WOXL is PCEM, it recently got 3DFX emulation though it is still not running at 100% speed.

miljoneir
13th July 2015, 10:28 AM
The PC version seems to be quite a bit darker and less vibrant (color wise) compared to the PSX version.

The PSX version is brighter and has more vibrant colors than the PC version (at least with the "Direct3D HAL" API).

Any chance that could be fixed somehow?



Dgvoodoo has a brightness and color slider and it has anti-aliasing.

I added a screenshot with both effects subtly applied.

EDIT: I found a better alternative called DxWnd here: http://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/home/Home/

This program was created to be used as a compatibility layer for old games.
The interesting option are:
1) the FPS limiter under the timing tab
2) 'Windows 95' under compat. tab
3) 'DirectX hook version' to '1~6' under the Directx tab.
4) 'Optimize CPU' on the main tab

I found 2) and 3) to prevent random game crashes, but 'Run in window' on the main tab must be turned OFF otherwise the game will just insta-crash or lag.

The strange thing is how the fps number works, as it sets a delay before the limiter will kick in. I found 33 msec to make the game run at its intended 30 fps, but maybe another number is necessary on PC's with a higher/lower spec. Can someone verify this?

One problem: (dgvoodoo has it as well)
Setting bilinear/trilinear filtering results in extreme lag (at least, on my Pc). Only anti-aliasing can be used, but DxWnd doesn't have this option. My solution is to use both programs simultaneously. This suprisingly didn't gave me any side effects.



The PC version to me always felt more like a rushed port of the original than a separate version despite the close release dates which would indicate otherwise.
Yeah, just look at the game's readme. It got released with quite serious know issues. But worse of all is the lack of FPS limiter. Just WHY? My first PC was a Pentium III and it ran the game about twice as fast, making it unbeatable.

EDIT:
1) DxWnd doesn't work on windows 10
2) HD pathes available here: http://www.gamekult.com/blog/panda/309726/wipeout-2097-version-pc-hd-edition.html thanks to Panda(tm)

aybe
18th August 2015, 12:07 PM
Works great, still need to lower frame rate though ... The MSI afterburner software does not seem to provide this feature anymore however ...

miljoneir
18th August 2015, 05:36 PM
I figured something strange. When selecting 800x600 as the resolution it resulted in being fixed at 30fps. Could someone else verify this? Maybe the 'optimal mode' from my intel control panel is doing this. (I was still using dgvoodoo btw)

aybe
19th August 2015, 01:40 PM
Doesn't happen here, (AMD).

Fantom
14th February 2016, 02:44 PM
Also:

The PC version seems to be quite a bit darker and less vibrant (color wise) compared to the PSX version.

The PSX version is brighter and has more vibrant colors than the PC version (at least with the "Direct3D HAL" API).

Any chance that could be fixed somehow?

Regards

- - - Updated - - -

PS:

The sound quality of the PC version also is much worse than the PSX version.

The PSX version has way better sound quality than the PC version.

Any chance the sound quality of the PC version could be improved to the quality of the PSX version?

Regards

yes but the pc version is faster at least with the pirahna team other i don't use

[APG] Darkmega.exe
5th July 2016, 08:49 AM
Can we please get a Video Guide of this? i'm afraid of messing something up. (Using a retail Version and setup32.exe diden't work)

- - - Updated - - -

Nevermind, the installer worked now. (used windows 98/ME compatibility)

Snowtato
27th August 2016, 11:30 PM
10412
even in 98/ME compatibility